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oh hey gurl y u no wanna talk to me is it bc im ugly?

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Nazolene
MercurysJosiegirl
Terrified... because someone said you were cute? That seems a little paranoid if you ask me. Now if its only because of the person in the car, that's a bit more understandable.

Why is it women complain about 'I can't meet anyone' yet when someone shows interest in them suddenly they're creepers?

It was the way he said it and looked at me. He could have said it without making it sexual.

Maybe I am being paranoid. But I've got a history, so I'm pretty wary of men anyway. :/


Ah, having history, meaning something bad has happened in the past, is bound to color the way you see or hear something a person representing the sex of said bad thing says or does. I do understand that. I have my own history. When I was a sophomore in high school, a guy I went to school with decided he needed to 'cure' me of 'the gay' and raped me. He was one of those males who thinks the only reason a girl is a lesbian is because she hasn't had d**k yet. So I do understand where you're coming from. I suppose I just decided to not let fear control me, but I know its not easy to let go of.

Submerged Nymph

MercurysJosiegirl
Ah, having history, meaning something bad has happened in the past, is bound to color the way you see or hear something a person representing the sex of said bad thing says or does. I do understand that. I have my own history. When I was a sophomore in high school, a guy I went to school with decided he needed to 'cure' me of 'the gay' and raped me. He was one of those males who thinks the only reason a girl is a lesbian is because she hasn't had d**k yet. So I do understand where you're coming from. I suppose I just decided to not let fear control me, but I know its not easy to let go of.

I am so, so sorry that happened to you. I hope he had serious consequences.

I was molested from ages 9-15, and anything sexual said to me, especially directed at me, makes me incredibly uncomfortable. It just makes me think of the man who hurt me. I don't care if someone offers a simple greeting like "Hello." That's fine and I will respond in kind. But when they act like those men, all I can think is "I don't want to get hurt again. I need to get out of here."

I am seeing a therapist, so hopefully I can get past it.
Nazolene
MercurysJosiegirl
Ah, having history, meaning something bad has happened in the past, is bound to color the way you see or hear something a person representing the sex of said bad thing says or does. I do understand that. I have my own history. When I was a sophomore in high school, a guy I went to school with decided he needed to 'cure' me of 'the gay' and raped me. He was one of those males who thinks the only reason a girl is a lesbian is because she hasn't had d**k yet. So I do understand where you're coming from. I suppose I just decided to not let fear control me, but I know its not easy to let go of.

I am so, so sorry that happened to you. I hope he had serious consequences.

I was molested from ages 9-15, and anything sexual said to me, especially directed at me, makes me incredibly uncomfortable. It just makes me think of the man who hurt me. I don't care if someone offers a simple greeting like "Hello." That's fine and I will respond in kind. But when they act like those men, all I can think is "I don't want to get hurt again. I need to get out of here."

I am seeing a therapist, so hopefully I can get past it.


*hugs* That's awful! I hope your abuser has been made to pay the price for his actions. As for mine.. I was afraid to tell anyone about it, afraid to tell my parents at the time that it happened because it meant coming out to them before I was ready for them to know. As it turned out, they'd already figured out I wasn't straight, because when I told them, my senior year, because I wanted to go to prom with a girl, they just hugged me and said they already knew. By the time I got up the courage to talk about the rape, it just felt like it would have been useless to report it because it would be my word against his. There was no evidence of it happening and I didn't want to relive that nightmare only to have nothing come of it. In retrospect I probably should have anyway because chances are he's assaulted others.

Submerged Nymph

MercurysJosiegirl


*hugs* That's awful! I hope your abuser has been made to pay the price for his actions. As for mine.. I was afraid to tell anyone about it, afraid to tell my parents at the time that it happened because it meant coming out to them before I was ready for them to know. As it turned out, they'd already figured out I wasn't straight, because when I told them, my senior year, because I wanted to go to prom with a girl, they just hugged me and said they already knew. By the time I got up the courage to talk about the rape, it just felt like it would have been useless to report it because it would be my word against his. There was no evidence of it happening and I didn't want to relive that nightmare only to have nothing come of it. In retrospect I probably should have anyway because chances are he's assaulted others.

I understand being afraid. I was scared of him, and I didn't feel I was emotionally and mentally capable of handing the fallout. I finally spilled the beans after an incident itriedtokillmyself when I was 17. He got 8 years, so he gets out in 2018. I wish it was more, but it's better than nothing. I don't know if I was his only victim, but he has a daughter. And she has a daughter, who is half black. He's extremely racist, so I'm afraid he has or would hurt her. I really hope I was the only one.

I'm so glad your parents accepted you after you told them. I hear too many tales of parents taking it badly.

If you ever get the courage, please do tell someone. I can understand why you wouldn't want to, though. I didn't have any evidence, it was just my word against his. I don't know what exactly was his downfall in losing the case, but I'm so glad he did.

Bashful Businesswoman

MercurysJosiegirl
[

Oh, I am not saying they don't have a right. But you, dude deliberately posted in a way that implied that every single woman has a problem with cat-calling and that every single woman is afraid to walk down the street as a result. You then proceeded to post a few, rare articles to imply that there is a massive problem with women being attacked for rebuffing cat-calls. I requested you support the claims you made and you have failed to do so.


I never implied that all women had a problem with it. I was just pointing out that it usually wasn't considered a compliment by most. Like, this thread is a perfect example of it. You'd know that if you actually read though it. I don't need to "prove" anything dude. There's multiple accounts of women saying they don't like it. Right here. And if you google "catcalling isn't a compliment." you'll get multiple articles and essays on the topic. That's proof enough.
Don't get all pissy at me just because you didn't feel like doing the homework yourself.

Why are even so obsessed with this.
Maybe you should just accept that this issue isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be.


Quote:
How about.. no. You see, just because you want to bully others in no way means you have any say in who posts on a public thread. Your bully tactics will not work with me, dude. If you cannot handle someone asking you to support your implied claim that your mindset is universal then perhaps you should be the one to leave the thread.


lol
I'm not bullying anyone lol what.
Let me guess, you're one of those people who think anyone disagreeing with you or if they're not being perfectly sugary sweet is "cyber bullying" huh? Yeah okay I can see where this is going. As someone who's actually gotten multiple rape and death threats, this really doesn't constitute as bullying.
It's just me having a different opinion. Oohhhh scary!!
gonk
I don't even see why you're getting so damn offended. If you don't care about catcalls, the fine. I don't care. Have fun.
If other women don't like though, that's not a bad thing either. Quit acting like it is.
MercurysJosiegirl
freelance lover
Should people have to endure creepy comments and whatnot? Hell no.

Men's instinct being used as an excuse to harass people/victim blaming? Bullshit. That's insulting to men more than anything. Not all men a giant creepy assholes.

Do you think that people who are upset by this are too sensitive? Or that this is a real issue. This is a ******** real issue and anyone who doesn't think so should find a woman they loves (mom, sister, friend, partner, whatever) and ask if they have ever felt uncomfortable or unsafe after a man made comments about their body. I can almost guarantee every single woman will have at least one story. When I was riding the train by myself to commute to work it happened to me at least once a week. Once a week some man made me feel threatened and uncomfortable because he's a giant douche nozzle who feels entitled to my body.

I do see some people pointing out that not all the comment are rude. I think that's a fair assessment. I don't mind a stranger telling me to have a good evening or something else. I had a guy once tell me I looked nice that evening, and it was not at all creepy. I had another man strike up a conversation when I arrived at my subway platform by telling me the train I was waiting on had just left, then offered me a seat, reminded me I should keep my bag close to me, and then ask if I was single before boarding his own train. There's a way to give a girl a compliment without being a huge creepazoid.


In a ten hour span she had 100 'cat-calls'. That's not really very many, in a city like New York. Not that cat-calls are inherently harmful. I have heard women doing the same things. Maybe not to the extent, but there are sexists on both sides of the gender lines.


100 in 10 hours seems like a LOT to me. I mean, that's 10 an hour. I don't know where you live where you're getting cat called more than 10 times in an hour, but I don't think I want to visit. If I'm walking somewhere I might get 1 or 2 and I live in LA so... Not to mention I've been to New York and never experienced anything quite that extreme.

To me, catcalling is inherently harmful. I would not call a man saying something like "Have a nice day" catcalling. That's someone wishing me well on the street. I don't think I'd even call a tasteful compliment a catcall. Catcalling to me is inherently disrespectful, vulgar, and threatening. That may just be me though. Women can and do for sure catcall. No one should feel like their body is not their own and it's open for public commentary. I think the big difference is that female catcalling does not often carry the threat of physical violence towards men the way male catcalling does. I can yell every lewd thing in the book at a guy on the street, but chances are he had more brute strength than me and I wouldn't be able to overpower him even if I wanted to. On the flip side, a man yelling lewd things at me could probably easily out strength me if he tried, so the threat of physical violence is much more real.

Loiterer

The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).

I don't know what to think about the guy that followed her for 5 minutes. Since he never actually said anything, I'm inclined to believe that he thought he was protecting her in a bad part of town. Which is entirely possible in my view. Some guys like to do this to girls they don't know, it's a sort of a "strong silent protector type" thing. However, yeah it's totally creepy to the person it's happening too. I would be very suspicious as well since it's a stranger.

The guy who says smile, and then complains about not getting a thank you, that was the rudest guy imo. It's hard to tell if he says that because he wants to be with her or if it's because he wants to sell her something. If I want to discount the video, I'd say he was trying to sell her something-- this tactic is common among a*****e salesmen.

But if I want to side with the video, he was the stereotypical "Man doesn't get women's attention he thinks he's entitled to, man gets mad."

Loiterer

MercurysJosiegirl
SamaSenseiSenpai
But, our brains operate different (plus all the hormone differences).


This is actually untrue.

I am just going to post the information I previously asked for elsewhere, because I'd disagreed when someone said our brains didn't work differently,and I was proven incorrect.

5th Dimension Morning



The Guardian -- Male Brain vs Female Brain

The Guardian
Summary:
Subtle observable differences exist between male and female brains, but how exactly these relate to differences in behaviour is unknown. Such gender variations in the brain are often exaggerated and misappropriated, not only by the mass media but also by scientists, to reinforce stereotypes and perpetuate myths.

The science of sex differences has always been – and still is – fraught with controversy. Some believe that behavioural differences between men and women are mostly due to cultural influences, while others argue that sex differences are largely determined by biology. In reality, the situation is far more complex. It lies somewhere in the middle, and involves two related but independent factors, which are often confused or conflated.

One of these factors is biological sex, which is determined by chromosomes. Most people have either two X chromosomes, which makes them female, or one X and one Y chromosome, which makes them male. The other is gender, which is influenced largely by the socialization process. As we grow up, we learn society's norms about how males and females look and act; for most people, sex and gender are matched, and so they inadvertently conform to these norms.

Men and women's brains differ in subtle ways, and these differences are probably established in the womb, due to the effects of sex hormones, which masculinize or feminize the organ as it develops. However, we still do not understand the effects of sex hormones on the developing brain, or how the subtle differences observed between men and women's brains are related to differences in their behaviour.

Battle of the sexes?
The most obvious difference between the brains of men and women is overall size – men's brains are, on average, between 10 and 15 per cent larger than women's. In one recent study, neuroscientists compared the brains of 42 men and 58 women postmortem, and found that men's weighed an average of 1,378g (3lb), compared with 1,248g (2.75lb) for women. These size differences have been found repeatedly, but they emerge only when comparing large numbers of people, so some women's brains are larger than the average whereas some men's are smaller. These differences partly reflect the fact that men are generally bigger and taller than women, but they are not related to differences in intelligence.

Men and women's brains also differ in overall composition. Male brains tend to have a slightly higher proportion of white matter, whereas those of females have a higher proportion of grey matter in most parts of the cerebral cortex. Consequently, the cortex is slightly thicker in women's brains than in men's and, according to several studies, is slightly more convoluted as well. There are also sex differences in the size of individual brain structures. The hippocampus, a structure involved in memory formation, is on average larger in men than in women, as is the amygdala, which is also involved in memory, as well as emotions.

Another sexual variation is found in a structure called the third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus. The function of this tiny structure is unknown, but research from four different laboratories has repeatedly found that it is almost twice as large in males than in females. It has also been linked to sexual orientation and gender identity: one study showed that it is more than twice as large in heterosexual males than in homosexual males, where it more closely resembles that of women; another found that it is smaller in male-to-female transsexuals, and larger in female-to-male transsexuals. These studies have been criticized for their small sample sizes, and the findings have not been confirmed.

Stereotypes and myths
Numerous studies show subtle differences in male and female behaviour and in cognitive functions, too. Men tend to be more aggressive and outperform women on mental tasks involving spatial skills such as mental rotation, whereas women tend to be more empathetic and perform better on verbal memory and language tasks. Findings like these are often exaggerated to reinforce the stereotypes that women are bad at reverse parking and that they love to chat!

In some cases, individual studies purporting to show sex differences in certain tasks are misappropriated. For example, according to a tiny postmortem study published in 1982, the corpus callosum, the massive bundle of nerve fibres connecting the two brain hemispheres, is proportionally larger in women than in men. This was widely reported to mean that women are better at multitasking, even though subsequent work has failed to replicate the results. A more recent study showed that women are marginally better than men at paying attention to sounds presented to both ears simultaneously – this was interpreted by some as evidence that 'men don't listen'.

Many of these claims are accompanied by the assertion that the observed differences between men and women's brains are 'hard-wired' and, therefore, irreversible. We now know, however, that brain structure and function change in response to experience, so any observed differences between the brains of men and women could also be due to differences in upbringing and socialization. To date, though, very little research has been done to investigate how different nurturing styles might influence brain development.

Box: The extreme male brain hypothesis
People with autism tend to perform poorly on tests of empathizing, or the ability to put oneself in somebody else's shoes, but do well on tests of systematizing, or finding repeating patterns. Similarly, women tend to score higher on the empathy scale, and men on the systematizing scale. These observations led one researcher to propose the highly controversial 'extreme male brain' hypothesis of autism. The hypothesis states that autism is an extreme form of the normal male cognitive profile, which occurs as a result of high testosterone levels in the womb. Accordingly, people with autism can be considered as 'hyper-systematizers' who focus more on patterns and fine details than on other people's thoughts and actions. The extreme male brain hypothesis has been used as an explanation for why autism is four times more prevalent in males than in females, and why people with autism can excel in disciplines such as maths and engineering.


emphasis added by me.


Psychology Today -- Men And Women Are The Same Species

Agustín Fuentes, Ph.D.
OK, we all know that men and women do not always see eye to eye. We can have different goals, desires, ideas and actions … sometimes. Other times, we are very much in synch. If you stop and think a bit about biology, it turns out that men and women are a lot more similar than most of us realize. In this blog post, I am going to suggest that sometimes focusing on the similarities (or better put, the "overlaps" wink between males and females can help us towards a better understanding of where behavioral differences actually come from.

First, let's acknowledge the core differences in biology between males and females. These are evolutionarily, and practically, important and they do matter. Females have babies (gestate and give birth) and lactate, and males do not. Males are, on average, about 10 to 15 percent larger than females and tend to have greater upper body strength. Males’ brains grow for a bit longer and are a bit larger than females. But remember, as long as it is a healthy human brain (anywhere between 1,000 and 2,000 cubic centimeters) size does not relate to function. There are also some skeletal differences between men and women due to childbirth (wider pelvis) and male size/musculature (more rugged developments on male bones). Most of you reading this already know these differences … but do you know about the similarities?

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones. There is some important variation in hormone levels and patterns, and there are some differences in how the hormones interact with male and female bodies. On average, men tend to have a higher resting levels of some androgens (like testosterone), and females may have higher levels of certain reproductive hormones like Follicle Stimulating Hormone or Estradiol at certain times in their menstrual cycles. However, these same reproductive hormones also work in men and are involved in the process of sperm production. There is substantial overlap in the process and patterns of our entire endocrine system.

Our brains are the same. Aside from the slight size differences and the possibility of some differences in an area called the straight gyrus, there are no reliably and repeatedly demonstrated morphological brain differences between the sexes. Now, this is not to say that there is not a great deal of variation in brains across our species or that in some cases adult males’ and females’ brains can react differently to stimulus; there is a lot of variation in neurological structure and probably some in function … but it is primarily across individuals, not sexes.

Genitals? Most people think that male and female genitals are about as different as can be: p***s = male and v****a = female. But even this basic dichotomy is not really correct: the genitals emerge from the same mass of embryonic tissue. For the first six weeks of development the tissue masses develop identically. At about six to seven weeks, depending on whether the fetus has XX or XY chromosomes (usually), the tissues start to differentiate. One part of the tissues begins to form the clitoris or p***s and another forms the labia or scrotum. Another area begins to form into either the testes or the ovaries. This means that physiologically, male and female genitals are made of the same stuff and work in similar ways.

What about sexual behavior? In general, humans have a lot of sex, they have it in a variety of different ways, and most importantly, males AND females both have complex sexual lives. Substantive recent overviews of sexual behavior show few major differences between males and females in sexual activity: Men and women have more or less the same amount of sex in the same kinds of ways across the lifespan (remember, it does take two to tango). But there are some important differences. For example, married women report lower interest in sex with their husbands the longer they’ve been with them, and younger men report higher frequencies of masturbation and interest in visual pornography. But are these primarily biological differences, or is something else going on? We still have a lot to learn about sexuality … and as with many other areas it looks like variation is highest between individuals, not between sexes.

There is no doubt that our evolutionary histories result in important differences between the sexes. But these same histories and biology also result in core similarities between the sexes that are equally as important in understanding our lives. Biological differences between males and females can relate to behavioral dissimilarities (such as in physical aggression and aspects of reproduction), but the majority of our biological characteristics (like our brains) reveal that males and females are much more similar than they are different.

So why do we almost always try to explain behavior by implicating biological (evolutionary) differences between the sexes? Could it be that our perceptions of what is “natural” for the sexes is biased? Why don’t we try to start some of our inquiries into human nature with a level playing field? Let’s not assume that there is a relevant sex difference until one actually emerges from the data.

Individual variation in our species is really important and the fact that the sexes overlap as much, if not more, than they differ should tell us something about how to ask questions about human nature. Misrepresentation of human biology and evolutionary patterns in males and females by focusing only on the differences while ignoring the overlaps facilitates a myopic view that inhibits good science.



Here are some good readings on this topic:

A. Fausto-Sterling (2012) Sex/Gender: biology in a social world. Routledge Press & 2000), Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality

L. Eliot (2009) Pink brain Blue brain. Houhgton Mifflin Harcourt

Herbenick, D., Reece, M., Schick, V., Sanders, S.A., Dodge, B., Fortenberry, J.D. (2010) Sexual behavior in the united states: results from a national probability sample of men and women ages 14-94. J. Sex Med. 7(suppl. 5):255-265

R.M. Jordan-Young (2010) Brainstorm: the flaws in the science of sex differences. Harvard University Press

Z. Tang-Martinez (2000), Paradigms and primates: Bateman’s principle, passive females, and perspectives from other taxa, in S. C. Strum and L. M. Fedigan, eds., Primate Encounters: Models of Science, Gender, and Society, pp. 261–74;

M. Borgerhoff-Mulder and K. Rauch (2009), Sexual conflict in humans: Variations and solutions, Evolutionary Anthropology 18: 201–14.

J. L. Wood, D. Heitmiller, N. C. Andreasen, and P. Nopoulos (200 cool , Morphology of the ventral frontal cortex: relationship to femininity and social cognition, Cerebral Cortex 18: 534–40.

K. Bishop and D. Wahlsten (1997), Sex differences in the human corpus callosum: Myth or reality? Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 21(5): 581–601.

J. Shibley Hyde (2005), The gender similarities hypothesis, American Psychologist 60(6): 581–92.

J. Archer (2009a), Does sexual selection explain human sex differences in aggression? Behavioral and Brain Sciences 32: 249–311



J. Shibley Hyde (2005), The gender similarities hypothesis, American Psychologist 60(6): 581–92.

J. Archer (2009a), Does sexual selection explain human sex differences in aggression? Behavioral and Brain Sciences 32: 249–311


how's that for evidence? wink

The videos didn't load for me but I read those studies, and both of them say two things:

1.) Males and females ARE different. However, as far as we know, those differences are exaggerated by people/media/etc (or could be related to something outside sex).

2.) All the studies done so far are not reputable for one reason or another, so we have a long way to go before we can answer just how different the sexes are reliably. The brains may or may not be as different as we think they are.


So you, in effect, have proven nothing...

dazzel_almond's Senpai

Bornes
The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).



No, it's not. Black women like being catcalled as much as white women do, which is to say not at all. It's normalized, but not normal.

Most of the time, people giving cat calls are harmless. There have been a few cases when women have been attacked for speaking back, but that usually isn't the case. It has never made me afraid to walk alone. In fact, I have walked down one of the worst neighborhoods in hooker boots, leg netting, a mini skirt, and a corset. Did I get cat calls? Yes. Did any of it make me feel afraid? No.

The worst I had was a guy and his friend traveling beside me on a slow moving road with a lot of red lights. They wouldn't stop trying to hit on me and my friend even after we made fun of them. They called us bitches and sped off quickly, though, after I threatened to throw my lit cigarette into their car at one of their faces. We were that close at the red lights, and there wasn't a wind that day...so they took my threat seriously. Plus these guys looked like they were 16-18. It happened last summer, so I was 24 (and still am) when they did it. I totally want to rob the cradle. emotion_puke
Bornes
The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).

I don't know what to think about the guy that followed her for 5 minutes. Since he never actually said anything, I'm inclined to believe that he thought he was protecting her in a bad part of town. Which is entirely possible in my view. Some guys like to do this to girls they don't know, it's a sort of a "strong silent protector type" thing. However, yeah it's totally creepy to the person it's happening too. I would be very suspicious as well since it's a stranger.

The guy who says smile, and then complains about not getting a thank you, that was the rudest guy imo. It's hard to tell if he says that because he wants to be with her or if it's because he wants to sell her something. If I want to discount the video, I'd say he was trying to sell her something-- this tactic is common among a*****e salesmen.

But if I want to side with the video, he was the stereotypical "Man doesn't get women's attention he thinks he's entitled to, man gets mad."



Was just saying sorry, I don't like how anything I said last night post 4am came out. Once I stay up past 30 hours everything I write or do goes down in quality so much.

No problem.

So I'm just a little white girl experiencing culture shock? Somehow that does not surprise me lol I can see how I could get messed up like that, after all I'm just speaking from my own experience. I've never really lived in an area in which this was overly common, so it's not something I'm used to.

Maybe you're right, I don't know. I don't have much worldly knowledge with these sorts of things. I've been to big cities before, but I was always in groups with men in them. I'd hope this is the case though, I would probably try to shake him off or something if that where me, even if he was doing that silent protector thing. Trusting other people with that is hard.

Didn't really call attention to this in my OP, though I should have. The sense of entitlement kills me. I don't understand how some people grow that old and don't realize by that time that not all of your compliments will get a thank you in turn, and that you shouldn't compliment people just so you can get thanked.
freelance lover
MercurysJosiegirl
freelance lover
Should people have to endure creepy comments and whatnot? Hell no.

Men's instinct being used as an excuse to harass people/victim blaming? Bullshit. That's insulting to men more than anything. Not all men a giant creepy assholes.

Do you think that people who are upset by this are too sensitive? Or that this is a real issue. This is a ******** real issue and anyone who doesn't think so should find a woman they loves (mom, sister, friend, partner, whatever) and ask if they have ever felt uncomfortable or unsafe after a man made comments about their body. I can almost guarantee every single woman will have at least one story. When I was riding the train by myself to commute to work it happened to me at least once a week. Once a week some man made me feel threatened and uncomfortable because he's a giant douche nozzle who feels entitled to my body.

I do see some people pointing out that not all the comment are rude. I think that's a fair assessment. I don't mind a stranger telling me to have a good evening or something else. I had a guy once tell me I looked nice that evening, and it was not at all creepy. I had another man strike up a conversation when I arrived at my subway platform by telling me the train I was waiting on had just left, then offered me a seat, reminded me I should keep my bag close to me, and then ask if I was single before boarding his own train. There's a way to give a girl a compliment without being a huge creepazoid.


In a ten hour span she had 100 'cat-calls'. That's not really very many, in a city like New York. Not that cat-calls are inherently harmful. I have heard women doing the same things. Maybe not to the extent, but there are sexists on both sides of the gender lines.


100 in 10 hours seems like a LOT to me. I mean, that's 10 an hour. I don't know where you live where you're getting cat called more than 10 times in an hour, but I don't think I want to visit. If I'm walking somewhere I might get 1 or 2 and I live in LA so... Not to mention I've been to New York and never experienced anything quite that extreme.

To me, catcalling is inherently harmful. I would not call a man saying something like "Have a nice day" catcalling. That's someone wishing me well on the street. I don't think I'd even call a tasteful compliment a catcall. Catcalling to me is inherently disrespectful, vulgar, and threatening. That may just be me though. Women can and do for sure catcall. No one should feel like their body is not their own and it's open for public commentary. I think the big difference is that female catcalling does not often carry the threat of physical violence towards men the way male catcalling does. I can yell every lewd thing in the book at a guy on the street, but chances are he had more brute strength than me and I wouldn't be able to overpower him even if I wanted to. On the flip side, a man yelling lewd things at me could probably easily out strength me if he tried, so the threat of physical violence is much more real.


I live near New York City, and I said that's not a lot in a city like New York City. Larger cities like New York, LA, Chicago, you're likely to come across men who cat-call as a means of complimenting, because for the vast majority that's what it is. They're not doing it to intimidate. They see it as compliments, and can't understand why women get up in arms over it. Actually, I stated also that I have spent hours in NYC, walking around, and did not get more than a few mild cat-calls.

The threat is not 'more real'. You are implying that all men are inherently violent beasts simply because they whistle at a woman they think is attractive, or say 'He baby' to her. Implying such a thing is extremely sexist.

Why is it so many women go on and on about how we need to do away with sexist stereotypes but turn right around and apply those things to all men? We can't have it both ways.
Bornes
MercurysJosiegirl
SamaSenseiSenpai
But, our brains operate different (plus all the hormone differences).


This is actually untrue.

I am just going to post the information I previously asked for elsewhere, because I'd disagreed when someone said our brains didn't work differently,and I was proven incorrect.

5th Dimension Morning



The Guardian -- Male Brain vs Female Brain

The Guardian
Summary:
Subtle observable differences exist between male and female brains, but how exactly these relate to differences in behaviour is unknown. Such gender variations in the brain are often exaggerated and misappropriated, not only by the mass media but also by scientists, to reinforce stereotypes and perpetuate myths.

The science of sex differences has always been – and still is – fraught with controversy. Some believe that behavioural differences between men and women are mostly due to cultural influences, while others argue that sex differences are largely determined by biology. In reality, the situation is far more complex. It lies somewhere in the middle, and involves two related but independent factors, which are often confused or conflated.

One of these factors is biological sex, which is determined by chromosomes. Most people have either two X chromosomes, which makes them female, or one X and one Y chromosome, which makes them male. The other is gender, which is influenced largely by the socialization process. As we grow up, we learn society's norms about how males and females look and act; for most people, sex and gender are matched, and so they inadvertently conform to these norms.

Men and women's brains differ in subtle ways, and these differences are probably established in the womb, due to the effects of sex hormones, which masculinize or feminize the organ as it develops. However, we still do not understand the effects of sex hormones on the developing brain, or how the subtle differences observed between men and women's brains are related to differences in their behaviour.

Battle of the sexes?
The most obvious difference between the brains of men and women is overall size – men's brains are, on average, between 10 and 15 per cent larger than women's. In one recent study, neuroscientists compared the brains of 42 men and 58 women postmortem, and found that men's weighed an average of 1,378g (3lb), compared with 1,248g (2.75lb) for women. These size differences have been found repeatedly, but they emerge only when comparing large numbers of people, so some women's brains are larger than the average whereas some men's are smaller. These differences partly reflect the fact that men are generally bigger and taller than women, but they are not related to differences in intelligence.

Men and women's brains also differ in overall composition. Male brains tend to have a slightly higher proportion of white matter, whereas those of females have a higher proportion of grey matter in most parts of the cerebral cortex. Consequently, the cortex is slightly thicker in women's brains than in men's and, according to several studies, is slightly more convoluted as well. There are also sex differences in the size of individual brain structures. The hippocampus, a structure involved in memory formation, is on average larger in men than in women, as is the amygdala, which is also involved in memory, as well as emotions.

Another sexual variation is found in a structure called the third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus. The function of this tiny structure is unknown, but research from four different laboratories has repeatedly found that it is almost twice as large in males than in females. It has also been linked to sexual orientation and gender identity: one study showed that it is more than twice as large in heterosexual males than in homosexual males, where it more closely resembles that of women; another found that it is smaller in male-to-female transsexuals, and larger in female-to-male transsexuals. These studies have been criticized for their small sample sizes, and the findings have not been confirmed.

Stereotypes and myths
Numerous studies show subtle differences in male and female behaviour and in cognitive functions, too. Men tend to be more aggressive and outperform women on mental tasks involving spatial skills such as mental rotation, whereas women tend to be more empathetic and perform better on verbal memory and language tasks. Findings like these are often exaggerated to reinforce the stereotypes that women are bad at reverse parking and that they love to chat!

In some cases, individual studies purporting to show sex differences in certain tasks are misappropriated. For example, according to a tiny postmortem study published in 1982, the corpus callosum, the massive bundle of nerve fibres connecting the two brain hemispheres, is proportionally larger in women than in men. This was widely reported to mean that women are better at multitasking, even though subsequent work has failed to replicate the results. A more recent study showed that women are marginally better than men at paying attention to sounds presented to both ears simultaneously – this was interpreted by some as evidence that 'men don't listen'.

Many of these claims are accompanied by the assertion that the observed differences between men and women's brains are 'hard-wired' and, therefore, irreversible. We now know, however, that brain structure and function change in response to experience, so any observed differences between the brains of men and women could also be due to differences in upbringing and socialization. To date, though, very little research has been done to investigate how different nurturing styles might influence brain development.

Box: The extreme male brain hypothesis
People with autism tend to perform poorly on tests of empathizing, or the ability to put oneself in somebody else's shoes, but do well on tests of systematizing, or finding repeating patterns. Similarly, women tend to score higher on the empathy scale, and men on the systematizing scale. These observations led one researcher to propose the highly controversial 'extreme male brain' hypothesis of autism. The hypothesis states that autism is an extreme form of the normal male cognitive profile, which occurs as a result of high testosterone levels in the womb. Accordingly, people with autism can be considered as 'hyper-systematizers' who focus more on patterns and fine details than on other people's thoughts and actions. The extreme male brain hypothesis has been used as an explanation for why autism is four times more prevalent in males than in females, and why people with autism can excel in disciplines such as maths and engineering.


emphasis added by me.


Psychology Today -- Men And Women Are The Same Species

Agustín Fuentes, Ph.D.
OK, we all know that men and women do not always see eye to eye. We can have different goals, desires, ideas and actions … sometimes. Other times, we are very much in synch. If you stop and think a bit about biology, it turns out that men and women are a lot more similar than most of us realize. In this blog post, I am going to suggest that sometimes focusing on the similarities (or better put, the "overlaps" wink between males and females can help us towards a better understanding of where behavioral differences actually come from.

First, let's acknowledge the core differences in biology between males and females. These are evolutionarily, and practically, important and they do matter. Females have babies (gestate and give birth) and lactate, and males do not. Males are, on average, about 10 to 15 percent larger than females and tend to have greater upper body strength. Males’ brains grow for a bit longer and are a bit larger than females. But remember, as long as it is a healthy human brain (anywhere between 1,000 and 2,000 cubic centimeters) size does not relate to function. There are also some skeletal differences between men and women due to childbirth (wider pelvis) and male size/musculature (more rugged developments on male bones). Most of you reading this already know these differences … but do you know about the similarities?

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones. There is some important variation in hormone levels and patterns, and there are some differences in how the hormones interact with male and female bodies. On average, men tend to have a higher resting levels of some androgens (like testosterone), and females may have higher levels of certain reproductive hormones like Follicle Stimulating Hormone or Estradiol at certain times in their menstrual cycles. However, these same reproductive hormones also work in men and are involved in the process of sperm production. There is substantial overlap in the process and patterns of our entire endocrine system.

Our brains are the same. Aside from the slight size differences and the possibility of some differences in an area called the straight gyrus, there are no reliably and repeatedly demonstrated morphological brain differences between the sexes. Now, this is not to say that there is not a great deal of variation in brains across our species or that in some cases adult males’ and females’ brains can react differently to stimulus; there is a lot of variation in neurological structure and probably some in function … but it is primarily across individuals, not sexes.

Genitals? Most people think that male and female genitals are about as different as can be: p***s = male and v****a = female. But even this basic dichotomy is not really correct: the genitals emerge from the same mass of embryonic tissue. For the first six weeks of development the tissue masses develop identically. At about six to seven weeks, depending on whether the fetus has XX or XY chromosomes (usually), the tissues start to differentiate. One part of the tissues begins to form the clitoris or p***s and another forms the labia or scrotum. Another area begins to form into either the testes or the ovaries. This means that physiologically, male and female genitals are made of the same stuff and work in similar ways.

What about sexual behavior? In general, humans have a lot of sex, they have it in a variety of different ways, and most importantly, males AND females both have complex sexual lives. Substantive recent overviews of sexual behavior show few major differences between males and females in sexual activity: Men and women have more or less the same amount of sex in the same kinds of ways across the lifespan (remember, it does take two to tango). But there are some important differences. For example, married women report lower interest in sex with their husbands the longer they’ve been with them, and younger men report higher frequencies of masturbation and interest in visual pornography. But are these primarily biological differences, or is something else going on? We still have a lot to learn about sexuality … and as with many other areas it looks like variation is highest between individuals, not between sexes.

There is no doubt that our evolutionary histories result in important differences between the sexes. But these same histories and biology also result in core similarities between the sexes that are equally as important in understanding our lives. Biological differences between males and females can relate to behavioral dissimilarities (such as in physical aggression and aspects of reproduction), but the majority of our biological characteristics (like our brains) reveal that males and females are much more similar than they are different.

So why do we almost always try to explain behavior by implicating biological (evolutionary) differences between the sexes? Could it be that our perceptions of what is “natural” for the sexes is biased? Why don’t we try to start some of our inquiries into human nature with a level playing field? Let’s not assume that there is a relevant sex difference until one actually emerges from the data.

Individual variation in our species is really important and the fact that the sexes overlap as much, if not more, than they differ should tell us something about how to ask questions about human nature. Misrepresentation of human biology and evolutionary patterns in males and females by focusing only on the differences while ignoring the overlaps facilitates a myopic view that inhibits good science.



Here are some good readings on this topic:

A. Fausto-Sterling (2012) Sex/Gender: biology in a social world. Routledge Press & 2000), Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality

L. Eliot (2009) Pink brain Blue brain. Houhgton Mifflin Harcourt

Herbenick, D., Reece, M., Schick, V., Sanders, S.A., Dodge, B., Fortenberry, J.D. (2010) Sexual behavior in the united states: results from a national probability sample of men and women ages 14-94. J. Sex Med. 7(suppl. 5):255-265

R.M. Jordan-Young (2010) Brainstorm: the flaws in the science of sex differences. Harvard University Press

Z. Tang-Martinez (2000), Paradigms and primates: Bateman’s principle, passive females, and perspectives from other taxa, in S. C. Strum and L. M. Fedigan, eds., Primate Encounters: Models of Science, Gender, and Society, pp. 261–74;

M. Borgerhoff-Mulder and K. Rauch (2009), Sexual conflict in humans: Variations and solutions, Evolutionary Anthropology 18: 201–14.

J. L. Wood, D. Heitmiller, N. C. Andreasen, and P. Nopoulos (200 cool , Morphology of the ventral frontal cortex: relationship to femininity and social cognition, Cerebral Cortex 18: 534–40.

K. Bishop and D. Wahlsten (1997), Sex differences in the human corpus callosum: Myth or reality? Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 21(5): 581–601.

J. Shibley Hyde (2005), The gender similarities hypothesis, American Psychologist 60(6): 581–92.

J. Archer (2009a), Does sexual selection explain human sex differences in aggression? Behavioral and Brain Sciences 32: 249–311



J. Shibley Hyde (2005), The gender similarities hypothesis, American Psychologist 60(6): 581–92.

J. Archer (2009a), Does sexual selection explain human sex differences in aggression? Behavioral and Brain Sciences 32: 249–311


how's that for evidence? wink

The videos didn't load for me but I read those studies, and both of them say two things:

1.) Males and females ARE different. However, as far as we know, those differences are exaggerated by people/media/etc (or could be related to something outside sex).

2.) All the studies done so far are not reputable for one reason or another, so we have a long way to go before we can answer just how different the sexes are reliably. The brains may or may not be as different as we think they are.


So you, in effect, have proven nothing...



If you'd actually read them you would know that they say this:

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones.


And this:

Our brains are the same. Aside from the slight size differences and the possibility of some differences in an area called the straight gyrus, there are no reliably and repeatedly demonstrated morphological brain differences between the sexes.

Both of those refute your claim that men and women have different hormones and different brains.

you deciding they're 'not reputable' just because they refute your claim doesn't make you right. Size and composition =/= thinking differently. Now you are going to have to prove your claims, since you're still clinging to them.
Paprika Muffin
Bornes
The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).



No, it's not. Black women like being catcalled as much as white women do, which is to say not at all. It's normalized, but not normal.



There have been quite a few in this very thread who have said they don't mind it and even like it, so your claim that women don't like it at all is false.

Fashionable Hunter

bigcities heart

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