Catcalling on the streets

oh hey gurl y u no wanna talk to me is it bc im ugly?

yes.	100.0%	[ 60 ]
Total Votes:			[ 60 ]

[MercurysJosiegirl]

Paprika Muffin

MercurysJosiegirl

Paprika Muffin

MercurysJosiegirl

Paprika Muffin

No, it's not. Black women like being catcalled as much as white women do, which is to say not at all. It's normalized, but not normal.

There have been quite a few in this very thread who have said they don't mind it and even like it, so your claim that women don't like it at all is false.

Good for them. I just know if I get catcalled I feel like they are looking at me like a piece of meat and not an actual person and that makes me really uncomfortable. And I was simply breaking a stereotype that black women might like getting cat called more, and from a good friend of mine telling me her experience, no they don't. It just HAPPENS to them more often.

I don't like using terms that imply that it encompasses all. Some/Many don't like it. But there are still many that aren't bothered by it. Cat-calls don't bother me, its when they try to go beyond whistling or yelling out something about my body, that I pull out the pepper spray, if I'm not with Miss.. my partner. She's military and she packs quite a punch. She beat the crap out of a guy twice her size at a bar because he tried to grope me.

Hmm. I understand your point, and it's cool that it doesn't bother you or some other people in the thread. But it does bother a rather large majority and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe. Therefore, the problem should be addressed.

I do agree that it does happen to a lot of women, but there is no data that suggests its as pandemic as NoMercy keeps implying it is. Several have addressed the thought process that goes behind it with a lot of men; they think they're complimenting a woman when they do it. People like NoMercy completely dismiss that and make the claim that its sole purpose is to intimidate. I dislike it when those with different views are dismissed and then when a person asks for proof of claims made that request is ignored.

Paprika Muffin

I noticed you calling Miss Mercy 'paranoid' and such, and I'd kind of like to address that. Honestly, I am the same way. I get scared of whether or not men see me as another person with their own thoughts and goals, or a GIRL. Something guys want to date and later have sexual relations with. That is my purpose to them. Is this absurd? Yes. It is. I doubt all men are like this.

I can see the point you're making and I'd like to thank you for making it without the bullying tactics she used. Maybe I see things like catcalling differently because of upbringing. I was raised around a lot of boys, I come from a large family and most of my aunts and uncles had boys, and I have three brothers myself. Perhaps I grew up with a different insight to them as a result. I don't know. Or maybe I'm naive because I don't think that every man who catcalls is out to hurt me.

Paprika Muffin

However, when a man catcalls a woman, is he REALLY complimenting them?

For many of them, that's what they think they're doing. Like the guy in the video that someone else posted. He was trying to be nice, complimented the woman, tried to get to know her, because he found her attractive, and lets face it few people strike up conversations with random people they don't find attractive, and the woman went on a tirade about how he was just out to knock her up and take off.

Paprika Muffin

I like compliments. I work hard to make myself look good. So I like compliments like 'You look gorgeous' or 'You look beautiful today!'. What I don't like is 'Hello beautiful!' or other such things. In the former, they are complimenting me aesthetically. they want ME to know I look beautiful today. Catcalling is not at all about making the woman feel good. It is done to relieve boredom, a type of 'male bonding', and entertainment. It is not about empowering the woman being catcalled. Because she is not important. She is a walking sexual object for men to oogle at, and this is extremely dehumanizing. She is no longer a person. She is a walking pair of tits to these men. And THAT is what bothers me about catcalling.

Now you're doing the very same thing Mercy did. You're making a broad claim that catcalling is only for one thing; intimidation. I'd like some proof of this. Not a blog, but an actual study done by professionals, that says that's what catcalling is and that its not anything but that. I know from interactions I have had with males that to many of them they do think that catcalling, which includes whistling, is a form of compliment, which is why they don't get why a woman gets pissy when they do it.

[MercurysJosiegirl]

Bornes

MercurysJosiegirl

Bornes

MercurysJosiegirl

SamaSenseiSenpai

But, our brains operate different (plus all the hormone differences).

This is actually untrue.

I am just going to post the information I previously asked for elsewhere, because I'd disagreed when someone said our brains didn't work differently,and I was proven incorrect.

5th Dimension Morning

The Guardian -- Male Brain vs Female Brain

emphasis added by me.

Psychology Today -- Men And Women Are The Same Species

how's that for evidence? wink

The videos didn't load for me but I read those studies, and both of them say two things:

1.) Males and females ARE different. However, as far as we know, those differences are exaggerated by people/media/etc (or could be related to something outside sex).

2.) All the studies done so far are not reputable for one reason or another, so we have a long way to go before we can answer just how different the sexes are reliably. The brains may or may not be as different as we think they are.


So you, in effect, have proven nothing...

If you'd actually read them you would know that they say this:

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones.


And this:

Our brains are the same. Aside from the slight size differences and the possibility of some differences in an area called the straight gyrus, there are no reliably and repeatedly demonstrated morphological brain differences between the sexes.

Both of those refute your claim that men and women have different hormones and different brains.

you deciding they're 'not reputable' just because they refute your claim doesn't make you right. Size and composition =/= thinking differently. Now you are going to have to prove your claims, since you're still clinging to them.

I put the parts of your studies that you completely ignored in red.

If you'd read what I said, I wasn't saying your view was wrong. I was saying that all your sources proved was that there is no proof of either side being right.

edit: I'm also not the person you were arguing with before. My points 1 & 2 were me summarizing your articles. My only opinion on what you posted was that you didn't actually prove anything.

I don't see anything in red. I think it deleted the information. My apologies for thinking you were the one who stated men and women have different hormones and that men and women think differently.

Bornes

edit2: But since I'm now into this subject. I will state my view.
I think men and women inherently process things differently. But I also think a lot of the stereotypes are blown out of proportion (so I mostly agree with that first article you quoted).

Why do you think they inherently process thigns differently? I'm curious.

Bornes

But your second article is just laughable. First, let's start with the author. She's a PhD, but her PhD is in anthropology. She can certainly talk about some sex differences, but when it comes to the brain, she doesn't know s**t. The first article is written by Mo Costandi, and he has actually studied Neuroscience, unlike Fuentes.

Next, she just writes it in a way that is her opinion. "may," "can," "might," "a bit," these are all BSing terms to say "I don't actually know, but I'm going to word it in such a way so you agree with me by influencing your opinion."

Don't get me wrong, Costandi has some of this too, but Fuentes's is more problemetic because she has not studied Neuroscience. Which is the entire point of your argument right? Activity in the brain??

So someone must have a PhD in neuroscience to take anything they say with more than a grain of salt? then does that not mean everything you said is laughable as well?

Bornes

Finally, this one's the ******** gold mine. This quote.

Quote:

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones.

No s**t we all have the same hormones. The differences is how MUCH of each hormone each sex has. And Fuentes herself admits that we don't actually know how these differing amounts influence people. But just admitting that hormones do influence certain things admits that there's differences in the sexes!

Nobody's saying Males have X testosterone so males always do Y. They're saying Males generally have X testosterone and X testosterone predisposes males to doing Y. So while technically the difference isn't "because they're male" it's actually "because they have X testosterone" which, surprise surprise, people who have X testosterone are usually ******** male.

This quote (about us having the same hormones) is so problemetic because you've effectively stated there's no difference between rain or a flood or a tsunami because OH IT'S ALL JUST WATER!!

Try reading what a person is responding to. It would make you look like less of an a**. The person I posted that to originally stated that men and women have different hormones. Not that we have the same hormones but at different levels depending on sex, but that the hormones themselves are completely different.

[MercurysJosiegirl]

SirPuzzle

MercurysJosiegirl

SirPuzzle

You get the society you deserve.

Liberals never call out minorities for their behavior, they never call out poor people for bad behavior, they constantly rip on the rich/financially well off and constantly talk about how awesome poor people are compared to rich people.

I am going to go out on a limb and assume this remark is in regards to the men they showed in the short clip of the video all being minorities. If you Google it and read the explanation from the people who made the video, they state that white men did it too, a lot of it happened off camera though so it didn't make it into the clip. They edited it to remove them, whether or not they realized doing so would leave the impression that its only minority males who do this is not something I can answer. Only they can.

1. They weren't all minorities, just most of them were. There were white men in the video who catcalled.

So the ones who put the video together, who stated that the clip didn't have any white men doing it because their comments were off camera, lied? I watched the video, I'll have to watch it again because I don't recall them showing any WASP's in it.

SirPuzzle

2. You must have missed the part where I said that this is due to poor people, it's just that minorities are a disproportionate part of poor people, hence why liberals are hesitant to criticize them for anything.

Now you need to prove that its only poor people who do this. I'll bet you can't. you love to vilify 'liberals' and call anyone who doesn't think exactly like you one of them. What is your hard on with them?

SirPuzzle

3. You also must have missed the part where I pointed out the people who don't do this in disproportionate numbers are middle/high class privileged white males, the very kind liberals love to bash 24/7. Not all white males are middle/high class, so my statement is excluding lower class white males to make a point.

You need to prove this. Now. And again, what is your hard on with 'liberals'?

SirPuzzle

4. I bet the only reason they said that is so they wouldn't be called racist. This video was made by a liberal organization, of course liberals are going to fabricate a story about white males doing bad things. It's what they always do.

*rolls eyes* Says someone who is clearly a racist. Since you are making false claims without proof.

[Prompt Adieu]

The people who truly do not see this as a problem due to it not happening to them, just goes to show how much of their empathy lies based on only their own personal experiences. It may seem light-hearted to greet a stranger, but catcalling is actually giving out those "greetings" to a targeted audience.

Some of them actually do just want to say "Have a good day!" because you've physically caught their eye. But the majority is to gain attention and receive acknowledgement, and when this does not happen, that's when the ugly/dangerous/uncomfortable side is shown; like the guy who kept following her for 10min straight at close proximity.

I've had men curse at me for not graciously thanking their "compliments". Or they would stop in their tracks and turn back to walk towards my direction until I give some sort of reaction. The funny thing is even if I give a polite smile or reply back, it is taken as a possible invitation to continue a conversation.

The only option is to walk away. And that is what she was doing. That is what we all do.

[Nymphrosyne]

MercurysJosiegirl

More and more I am thinking I should come forward. I'll wait until Miss is back though. She's away for a few weeks, and she's my rock. I don't know that I could handle the questioning without her there. thinking that others may have been victims too... I think I have to come forward. I'm glad he at least got some jail time. I agree it should have been more, a lot more. I hope you can get to a place of healing so you can let go of the fear and live your life.

I wish you the best of luck! It can and most likely will be hard, but maybe it'll be able to give you a peace of mind about it. I know you said you decided not to let fear rule you, which is very good.

Thank you very much!

[MercurysJosiegirl]

SirPuzzle

Bornes

MercurysJosiegirl

Bornes

MercurysJosiegirl

This is actually untrue.

I am just going to post the information I previously asked for elsewhere, because I'd disagreed when someone said our brains didn't work differently,and I was proven incorrect.

The videos didn't load for me but I read those studies, and both of them say two things:

1.) Males and females ARE different. However, as far as we know, those differences are exaggerated by people/media/etc (or could be related to something outside sex).

2.) All the studies done so far are not reputable for one reason or another, so we have a long way to go before we can answer just how different the sexes are reliably. The brains may or may not be as different as we think they are.


So you, in effect, have proven nothing...

If you'd actually read them you would know that they say this:

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones.


And this:

Our brains are the same. Aside from the slight size differences and the possibility of some differences in an area called the straight gyrus, there are no reliably and repeatedly demonstrated morphological brain differences between the sexes.

Both of those refute your claim that men and women have different hormones and different brains.

you deciding they're 'not reputable' just because they refute your claim doesn't make you right. Size and composition =/= thinking differently. Now you are going to have to prove your claims, since you're still clinging to them.

I put the parts of your studies that you completely ignored in red.

If you'd read what I said, I wasn't saying your view was wrong. I was saying that all your sources proved was that there is no proof of either side being right.

edit: I'm also not the person you were arguing with before. My points 1 & 2 were me summarizing your articles. My only opinion on what you posted was that you didn't actually prove anything.

edit2: But since I'm now into this subject. I will state my view.
I think men and women inherently process things differently. But I also think a lot of the stereotypes are blown out of proportion (so I mostly agree with that first article you quoted).

But your second article is just laughable. First, let's start with the author. She's a PhD, but her PhD is in anthropology. She can certainly talk about some sex differences, but when it comes to the brain, she doesn't know s**t. The first article is written by Mo Costandi, and he has actually studied Neuroscience, unlike Fuentes.

Next, she just writes it in a way that is her opinion. "may," "can," "might," "a bit," these are all BSing terms to say "I don't actually know, but I'm going to word it in such a way so you agree with me by influencing your opinion."

Don't get me wrong, Costandi has some of this too, but Fuentes's is more problemetic because she has not studied Neuroscience. Which is the entire point of your argument right? Activity in the brain??

Finally, this one's the ******** gold mine. This quote.

Quote:

Our hormones are the same. They function the same ways and we all have the same hormones … there are no “male” or “female” hormones.

No s**t we all have the same hormones. The differences is how MUCH of each hormone each sex has. And Fuentes herself admits that we don't actually know how these differing amounts influence people. But just admitting that hormones do influence certain things admits that there's differences in the sexes!

Nobody's saying Males have X testosterone so males always do Y. They're saying Males generally have X testosterone and X testosterone predisposes males to doing Y. So while technically the difference isn't "because they're male" it's actually "because they have X testosterone" which, surprise surprise, people who have X testosterone are usually ******** male.

This quote (about us having the same hormones) is so problemetic because you've effectively stated there's no difference between rain or a flood or a tsunami because OH IT'S ALL JUST WATER!!

I mean, that's technically correct, the best kind of correct apparently, but to ignore that rain is not inherently dangerous but tsunamis and floods can kill people would be pretty stupid.

Arguing with religious fanatics is a waste of time.

*dies laughing at this* Where in goddess's name do you get a 'religious fanatic'? Methinks you're projecting.

[MercurysJosiegirl]

Bornes

SirPuzzle

Arguing with religious fanatics is a waste of time.

She doesn't seem like a fanatic to me. Just someone who doesn't know how to interpret articles.

I'm upset because I really wanted her articles to prove what she said they proved.
I didn't even discount her opinion originally, just the articles. And at first I let it slip because she probably thought I was who she was arguing with earlier.
But then I had to talk about the really ******** up "same hormones" quote.
How the crap did that article even get published??

I am just disappointed in the whole thing. I was willing to change my opinion.


edit: Did you get more than one quote notification for this post?

As I said in my other post to you, if you'd bothered to read what you were quoting you would know why I pointed that out.

[MercurysJosiegirl]

SirPuzzle

Bornes

SirPuzzle

Arguing with religious fanatics is a waste of time.

She doesn't seem like a fanatic to me. Just someone who doesn't know how to read scientific articles properly.
I'm upset because I really wanted her articles to prove what she said they proved.
I didn't even discount her opinion, just the articles. And at first I let it slip because she probably thought I was who she was arguing with earlier.
But then I had to talk about the really ******** up "same hormones" post.
How the crap did that article even get published??

I've argued with her before over Obamacare, she is a fanatic.

*pats the ignorant troll on the head* Yes, because anyone who says that you're full of s**t when you claim 'Obamacare ONLY affected medicaid!!!1111111!!!' is a 'fanatic'. No, they're just people who know what they're actually talking about, especially when they, themselves, were previously unable to get health insurance due to a preexisting condition but now, thanks to the AHA they have good insurance through Blue Cross and Blue Shield and no longer have to incur hundreds of thousands of dollars in ER visits.

[Soleil Niore]

Paprika Muffin

Bornes

The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).

No, it's not. Black women like being catcalled as much as white women do, which is to say not at all. It's normalized, but not normal.

Why is it every time I come back to Gaia I come across broad statements about us black folk?

Now, sugar, while some don't like to be catcalled, just like with you white folk, some of us aren't bothered by it.

[Soleil Niore]

The Ice Dervish

So, I just now saw this video, and I can't believe the amount of people who are actually against her for doing this. How anyone can think that walking with a girl like that for five minutes on purpose, or looking down at her butt and going "god bless you mama" isn't creepy as s**t is beyond me. The comments even go as far as to victim blame and talk about her outfit like was provocative and excuse this behavior because of "male instinct".

I have no issue with compliments or greetings, some of these people in the video where fine. Like "good evening" or "have a good day beautiful" are fine. It's not hard to not be offensive, it should be common sense to know when you've been staring too long or just in general making someone uncomfortable. Most things in the video weren't that bad, I'm mainly looking at: 0:28, 0:42, 0:50, and 1:20.

Discuss this s**t:

Should people have to endure creepy comments and whatnot?

Men's instinct being used as an excuse to harass people/victim blaming?

Do you think that people who are upset by this are too sensitive? Or that this is a real issue.

(thought i'd add some discussion points hue)

What bothers me most about the video, beyond the creepy guy walking alongside her for 5 minutes, is how, in editing, they inadvertently racially profiled it.

Quote:

The video has started many conversations—some important, some cringe-worthy—and one has been about race, which Hollaback responded to in their statement:
"Rob Bliss Creative donated time and labor to create this video and support our work. We are grateful for his work and the wide reach that this video has achieved but we feel the need to directly address other responses to the video.We regret the unintended racial bias in the editing of the video that over represents men of color. Although we appreciate Rob's support, we are committed to showing the complete picture. It is our hope and intention that this video will be the start of a series to demonstrate that the type of harassment we’re concerned about is directed toward women of all races and ethnicities and conducted by an equally diverse population of men."

Bliss told us this afternoon that "demographics of NYC have to be considered." Pointing to Wikipedia's numbers, he told us, "A video where whites are in the minority, and blacks/hispanics make up the majority isn't even that strange from a statistical demographic standpoint. That 33% to 40% is pretty close to the numbers here too, 44% white. It's just [that] those two guys literally account for 50% of this video, and massively swing the runtime in that direction." He also answered, via email, some of our questions regarding the making and editing of the video.
****
What neighborhoods were included in the walk? Just about every neighborhood in Manhattan was walked, from Lower Manhattan to Harlem. I found that Midtown was the biggest hot spot for street harassment.
***
Was any street harassment footage cut out of the edit? So in total, we had by my estimates 108 street harassments that took place during the shoot. Of that, we got both the quality audio and video we needed to have a scene, for roughly 30 to 40 scenes. The drop off came mostly through the difficulty of this shoot. Not only did we need quality in both pieces, but we frequently missed a shot because of noise, people standing in front of the camera, technical issues (batteries dying, for example), rain/wind, etc.

Since this video was also meant to serve as a viral video, it needed to be short due to internet audience attention spans. So we whittled away at this until we had the video just a tick under two minutes. This left us with just 20 scenes total, 18 of which have someone visible on camera.
*****
Do you have a response to the race comments/criticisms? I think the biggest misconception here is not understanding how inaccurate a sample size of 18 people is going to be, out of the tens of thousands of cat calls that happen. For example, the two dudes that stalk her, they alone account for 50% of the video, wildly swinging the scales with just two guys. What if they were Italian, or Russian? Does that mean that we're saying or implying that 50% of Italians are responsible for cat calling?

The biggest problem is people are acting like this is a survey, and there's no way anyone would trust such a survey of 18 people, especially with two people making up half the vote. There's no way that's going to be accurate. Like, there's no Asian men in this video either, are we saying that Asians don't catcall? People are drawing way too broad of conclusions. We filmed for a short period of time, we captured a few dozen interactions, and since we knew that they wouldn't necessarily represent the full demographics, we talk at the end of the video about how people from all backgrounds catcalled during our shoot.

Also I can even walk you through it, but there were 6 or 7 white guys in this video that catcalled, that's 33% to 40% percent. It's tricky picking everyone out because all their faces are blurred, which has only lead to more confusion. Additionally, their scenes were short, where those two guys who were non-white, they alone ate up half the video. So the run times yes, heavily portray blacks/Latinos, but the actual number count is much closer. And that's the problem with a 18 person sample size, inaccurate results, which is why this video shouldn't be treated like a survey.How the video was edited

I took the liberty of searching for the word 'rape' in the more than 100k replies to the video, which is where Hollaback claimed the rape threats were being made.. and not a single of the few hits that came up were rape threats, so either they lied about them or they've all been removed.

Now, that said, there was little 'harassment' involved. Calling someone beautiful isn't harassment. By the reasoning of you and others in this thread, the vast majority of Southerners are 'sexually harassing' people because we call perfect strangers honey, sugar, darlin', babe, baby, and if you're of the older generation, honey-chil' (which is honey-child, minus the D).

Not to mention, different cultures view it differently.

Quote:

Yet what’s become controversial is the preponderance of men of color doing the catcalling. And, as a Latina woman, however, I can tell you there is more nuance to this insight than at first glance.

There’s catcalling, and then there’s a whole other level of catcalling. In Mexico, where I grew up, it is a cultural thing to acknowledge a woman’s attractiveness in a way that is not threatening but, in fact, is considered a compliment. (Although this has definitely changed with newer generations. Hollaback! works in many Latin American countries like Argentina, Colombia, and Mexico in an effort to raise awareness about street harassment.)

A lot of American women — and some Latinas in the United States — may struggle to see unsolicited and unwanted attention as a compliment. They may automatically see it as a threat, perhaps rightly so in certain circumstances. The line between compliment and harassment can be razor thin, and it is crossed in a split-second. There are indeed degrees of catcalls

The bold is what 16 of the18 males represented in the video did. It is also the vast majority of what those not shown did. Part of the problem in this country is this ideal that many still cling to that all men are out to get you if you're a female. We scream about stereotypes, we talk about sexism, but it seems that the only discourse happens when its stereotypes about women, or sexism against women. When the stereotypes and sexism are against men its ignored, dismissed, or turned around to make it all about women. This mindset is prevalent in this very thread, with many attacking men who catcall with comments or whistles as if they're uncontrollable beasts waiting to pounce. If we, as women, want to be seen as people, not just as bodies, then maybe we need to step up and stop clinging to stereotypes that vilify all men. You cannot demand respect from the opposite sex if you are unwilling to give it in return. because your demands will fall on deaf ears.

Is catcalling a 'problem'? honestly, I don't think it is. A single person's experience is not evidence that it is a widespread epidemic. If there are a wide variety of studies, done across all spectrums, all classes, all races, with extremely large numbers involved, then provide those and we can honestly say yes or no that its a problem. But taking a few people's experiences and applying it to the populace is bad science and in any other situation it would be discredited. One person here said they live in LA and have only had it happen a few times. I live in Atlanta and I've been catcalled by men of all races maybe a handful of times, and only once did the person get aggressive about it until I pulled out both my cellphone and recorded him, and pulled out the pepper spray I carry.

We cannot, in good conscience, apply the experiences of some to everyone. Those who do this aren't using logic, they're thinking with their knee-jerk emotions.

[freelance lover]

MercurysJosiegirl

I live near New York City, and I said that's not a lot in a city like New York City. Larger cities like New York, LA, Chicago, you're likely to come across men who cat-call as a means of complimenting, because for the vast majority that's what it is. They're not doing it to intimidate. They see it as compliments, and can't understand why women get up in arms over it. Actually, I stated also that I have spent hours in NYC, walking around, and did not get more than a few mild cat-calls.

The threat is not 'more real'. You are implying that all men are inherently violent beasts simply because they whistle at a woman they think is attractive, or say 'He baby' to her. Implying such a thing is extremely sexist.

Why is it so many women go on and on about how we need to do away with sexist stereotypes but turn right around and apply those things to all men? We can't have it both ways.

Ah, sorry I think I misunderstood or misread the first part of your post.

I also think the "it's a compliment, lighten up" argument is stupid. If women- lots of women- have said they feel uncomfortable with it, why would you continue to do it? What are you hoping to achieve by that? If you know women take offense, what sort of reaction are you really expecting? I have men compliment me on the street in a very polite way. I don't have any issues with that- I actually appreciate it. I do have an issue with lewd and disrespectful comments though, which sort of brings me to my next point.

I am not implying all men are violent because, sweet Jesus, the "not all men" trope is so stupid and I can't even. What I AM saying is that if a man makes comments that make me feel uncomfortable and threatened, I'm going to put my guard up because nine out of ten times if he decides he want to overpower me and attack me, he will have no problem doing so. I can't look at a guy and know his intentions and how violent he may or may not be, and catcalling already make me defensive. Catcaling already has the implication that my body is public domain free for him to comment on even though he knows nothing about me. If he feels entitled to comment on it, maybe he also feels entitled to touch or abuse it. I can't look at a guy and know these things, and if I've already been disrespected I'm going to be defensive. We've had a lot of stories recently about women being attacked and killed for snubbing men's advances and while it's certainly not common, I'd rather not be in that situation.

Again, I am not implying (nor is anyone else) that all men are violent. But it's always better safe than sorry. If you were walking down a dark street in a high crime neighborhood, you would keep you eyes peeled for potential muggers. If you see a shady looking guy, or someone starts following you, you're going to take precautions. I don't see how it's any different with men who harass me on the street. Maybe you're just making lewd comments and that's it. Maybe you're going to attack me. I don't know, and I'd rather not be on the losing side of that guessing game.

[AnActualLizard]

MercurysJosiegirl

Paprika Muffin

MercurysJosiegirl

Paprika Muffin

MercurysJosiegirl

There have been quite a few in this very thread who have said they don't mind it and even like it, so your claim that women don't like it at all is false.

Good for them. I just know if I get catcalled I feel like they are looking at me like a piece of meat and not an actual person and that makes me really uncomfortable. And I was simply breaking a stereotype that black women might like getting cat called more, and from a good friend of mine telling me her experience, no they don't. It just HAPPENS to them more often.

I don't like using terms that imply that it encompasses all. Some/Many don't like it. But there are still many that aren't bothered by it. Cat-calls don't bother me, its when they try to go beyond whistling or yelling out something about my body, that I pull out the pepper spray, if I'm not with Miss.. my partner. She's military and she packs quite a punch. She beat the crap out of a guy twice her size at a bar because he tried to grope me.

Hmm. I understand your point, and it's cool that it doesn't bother you or some other people in the thread. But it does bother a rather large majority and make them feel uncomfortable and unsafe. Therefore, the problem should be addressed.

I do agree that it does happen to a lot of women, but there is no data that suggests its as pandemic as NoMercy keeps implying it is. Several have addressed the thought process that goes behind it with a lot of men; they think they're complimenting a woman when they do it. People like NoMercy completely dismiss that and make the claim that its sole purpose is to intimidate. I dislike it when those with different views are dismissed and then when a person asks for proof of claims made that request is ignored.

Paprika Muffin

I noticed you calling Miss Mercy 'paranoid' and such, and I'd kind of like to address that. Honestly, I am the same way. I get scared of whether or not men see me as another person with their own thoughts and goals, or a GIRL. Something guys want to date and later have sexual relations with. That is my purpose to them. Is this absurd? Yes. It is. I doubt all men are like this.

I can see the point you're making and I'd like to thank you for making it without the bullying tactics she used. Maybe I see things like catcalling differently because of upbringing. I was raised around a lot of boys, I come from a large family and most of my aunts and uncles had boys, and I have three brothers myself. Perhaps I grew up with a different insight to them as a result. I don't know. Or maybe I'm naive because I don't think that every man who catcalls is out to hurt me.

Paprika Muffin

However, when a man catcalls a woman, is he REALLY complimenting them?

For many of them, that's what they think they're doing. Like the guy in the video that someone else posted. He was trying to be nice, complimented the woman, tried to get to know her, because he found her attractive, and lets face it few people strike up conversations with random people they don't find attractive, and the woman went on a tirade about how he was just out to knock her up and take off.

Paprika Muffin

I like compliments. I work hard to make myself look good. So I like compliments like 'You look gorgeous' or 'You look beautiful today!'. What I don't like is 'Hello beautiful!' or other such things. In the former, they are complimenting me aesthetically. they want ME to know I look beautiful today. Catcalling is not at all about making the woman feel good. It is done to relieve boredom, a type of 'male bonding', and entertainment. It is not about empowering the woman being catcalled. Because she is not important. She is a walking sexual object for men to oogle at, and this is extremely dehumanizing. She is no longer a person. She is a walking pair of tits to these men. And THAT is what bothers me about catcalling.

Now you're doing the very same thing Mercy did. You're making a broad claim that catcalling is only for one thing; intimidation. I'd like some proof of this. Not a blog, but an actual study done by professionals, that says that's what catcalling is and that its not anything but that. I know from interactions I have had with males that to many of them they do think that catcalling, which includes whistling, is a form of compliment, which is why they don't get why a woman gets pissy when they do it.

I never said it was for intimidation. I said the act of catcalling is dehumanizing, and a man knows whether or not he is complimenting a girl for her appearance or catcalling her. The intention is different. Complimenting is to empower the woman, catcalling is to empower the cat caller. You cannot do both. The cat caller no longer views that woman as a person, rather a thing to be looked at and oogled. Sexual objectification. This dehumanization can lead to violence and escalated harassment, such as in this article. And men aren't stupid. They know they aren't supposed to wolf whistle at girls. It's disrespectful as ********.

Basically: Yes! Compliments are awesome! Compliment girls! Do not cat call! It is street harassment!

[AnActualLizard]

Soleil Niore

Paprika Muffin

Bornes

The Ice Dervish

I know who you are Bornes, I've been on these forums for a very long time under various different names. I'm old enough to remember your cries for help when you where in the Navy. Your insight is very valuable in this thread due to you having experienced both male and female life, thank you for it.

Edit: Just now realized how creepy that last paragraph looks, sorry about that. Was just trying to say thanks, I usually don't come off that weird. I do respect you sir, just know that. In every thread you have posted on as long as I've been on this site you have provided really good insight on everything. Good on you.

Lol it's fine. That edit was more for other people. I know who you are too. And it wasn't that creepy. xP

Thank you for the compliment, also.

But back to the subject, the people going "God bless you mama" etc., I do believe they too are "innocent."
Yes, it is rude to us, but their culture is different. I view it more as culture shock. Blacks (especially low income blacks) do have their own way of communicating and own culture. And I think that sort of behavior is just normal to them. Black women might like it (I know a bit about this male demographic but nothing about black women).

No, it's not. Black women like being catcalled as much as white women do, which is to say not at all. It's normalized, but not normal.

Why is it every time I come back to Gaia I come across broad statements about us black folk?

Now, sugar, while some don't like to be catcalled, just like with you white folk, some of us aren't bothered by it.

emotion_facepalm yes. That is what I was saying. It doesn't matter the SKIN color of the person. Black women don't automatically like catcalling more than white women because they're black. It varies from person to person. My good friend is black, and she does not like it. You may like it. What I am trying to say is, is that cat calling is NORMALIZED, but not normal. and it has nothing to do with skin color.

[Soleil Niore]

Prompt Adieu

The people who truly do not see this as a problem due to it not happening to them, just goes to show how much of their empathy lies based on only their own personal experiences. It may seem light-hearted to greet a stranger, but catcalling is actually giving out those "greetings" to a targeted audience.

And? You see, sugar, you're wrong by claiming that they only feel empathy if it happens to them. Some of us who have had it happen to us STILL say that we aren't taking a single video, which the creators even said was not remotely evidence that there is a widespread issue, as some deity given proof that all men are sexist pigs waiting to rut the first female they come in contact with.


If a person goes to a football game, that is targeted to a specific audience; football fans. If a woman goes to a male strip club, or to see the Chipendale dancers, that too is a targeted audience. When women catcall men, the greetings are at a targeted audience. Many men see their comments as innocent flirting or innocent compliments. But too many women stereotype all men while crying that all those ebil men are sexists when they, themselves, are just as sexist.

Prompt Adieu

Some of them actually do just want to say "Have a good day!" because you've physically caught their eye. But the majority is to gain attention and receive acknowledgement, and when this does not happen, that's when the ugly/dangerous/uncomfortable side is shown; like the guy who kept following her for 10min straight at close proximity.

Prove the bold right. ********. now. sugar. the man followed her for five minutes, and he was a single person out of HUNDREDS she passed by in that ten hours over several days. ONE person in hundreds a majority does not make.

Prompt Adieu

I've had men curse at me for not graciously thanking their "compliments". Or they would stop in their tracks and turn back to walk towards my direction until I give some sort of reaction. The funny thing is even if I give a polite smile or reply back, it is taken as a possible invitation to continue a conversation.

So you are extremely biased because you had the misfortune of meeting the few sexists. Some =/= all men. Quit stereotyping all men based on a few. That's as asinine as stereotyping all blacks based on a few, all Christians based on a few, all Muslims based on a few, all women based on a few, all feminists based on a few. Its sexist and you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Prompt Adieu

The only option is to walk away. And that is what she was doing. That is what we all do.

You need to prove this claim too, sugar. I've made more than a few friends because, instead of being a sexist b***h and stereotyping all men as uncontrollable beasts waiting to rut the first female they see, I stopped, talked with them, told them to have a good day, and went on my merry way. And I live in Atlanta. I don't live in some tiny little town where everyone knows everyone else.

[Soleil Niore]

freelance lover

MercurysJosiegirl

I live near New York City, and I said that's not a lot in a city like New York City. Larger cities like New York, LA, Chicago, you're likely to come across men who cat-call as a means of complimenting, because for the vast majority that's what it is. They're not doing it to intimidate. They see it as compliments, and can't understand why women get up in arms over it. Actually, I stated also that I have spent hours in NYC, walking around, and did not get more than a few mild cat-calls.

The threat is not 'more real'. You are implying that all men are inherently violent beasts simply because they whistle at a woman they think is attractive, or say 'He baby' to her. Implying such a thing is extremely sexist.

Why is it so many women go on and on about how we need to do away with sexist stereotypes but turn right around and apply those things to all men? We can't have it both ways.

Ah, sorry I think I misunderstood or misread the first part of your post.

I also think the "it's a compliment, lighten up" argument is stupid. If women- lots of women- have said they feel uncomfortable with it, why would you continue to do it? What are you hoping to achieve by that? If you know women take offense, what sort of reaction are you really expecting? I have men compliment me on the street in a very polite way. I don't have any issues with that- I actually appreciate it. I do have an issue with lewd and disrespectful comments though, which sort of brings me to my next point.

I am not implying all men are violent because, sweet Jesus, the "not all men" trope is so stupid and I can't even. What I AM saying is that if a man makes comments that make me feel uncomfortable and threatened, I'm going to put my guard up because nine out of ten times if he decides he want to overpower me and attack me, he will have no problem doing so. I can't look at a guy and know his intentions and how violent he may or may not be, and catcalling already make me defensive. Catcaling already has the implication that my body is public domain free for him to comment on even though he knows nothing about me. If he feels entitled to comment on it, maybe he also feels entitled to touch or abuse it. I can't look at a guy and know these things, and if I've already been disrespected I'm going to be defensive. We've had a lot of stories recently about women being attacked and killed for snubbing men's advances and while it's certainly not common, I'd rather not be in that situation.

Again, I am not implying (nor is anyone else) that all men are violent. But it's always better safe than sorry. If you were walking down a dark street in a high crime neighborhood, you would keep you eyes peeled for potential muggers. If you see a shady looking guy, or someone starts following you, you're going to take precautions. I don't see how it's any different with men who harass me on the street. Maybe you're just making lewd comments and that's it. Maybe you're going to attack me. I don't know, and I'd rather not be on the losing side of that guessing game.

So you are likening a man whistling, or saying 'hey beautiful', to walking through the hood in the dark? Way to racially profile there. Because we all know that the high crime areas tend to be where the most impoverished are, and that tends to be minorities.