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I stopped being a Christian about 12 years ago, went to Paganism until 2005, and then became an Agnostic or Atheist, depending on one's definition in 2008. (I self identify as Agnostic, but I could technically be an Atheist) The reason I left Chrisitianity is as I encapsilate below. Now, mind you that I personally don't care what other people believe, so long as they don't try to write their beliefs into law or otherwise force it down other people's throat. This is personally why I cannot be Chrisitan, and I have never found a satisfactory answer for this inconsistency.

Now, mind you, I have gotten the response of "Check out Mormanism, they don't have hell!" but Mormanism has a whole host of problems and would be a separate subject in and of itself.

So this goes to the Christians that actually believe in hell, not Universalists, not Mormons, etc.

In your religion you have a loving God, who created everything, and then you have humans who ate a fruit and who sinned, and you have Jesus, who took God’s wrath and saved everyone, and all I have to do is believe and repent. One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.
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So which is it? Is God loving? Is he hateful and petty? Does he not really care? Is he each? If you are Hitler and you adore the followers who love and praise you why you are still a monster, no matter how kind you are to the Nazis who adore you. And just to take the analogy further: Is it okay what Hitler did to the Jews if he offered them a pardon if they denied their Jewishness and became Nazis? NO!

Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshipping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.

Either you have totally warped and misrepresented God, or this “God” doesn’t really exist. How can God be so petty as to torture someone forever for not worshiping him, and yet be called “loving”? It makes no sense.

I'm sick so I'll take a nap, I'll respond to any responses when I wake up.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar

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That's lovely.
Qyp's avatar

Manly Lunatic

That hurt my head...
Do you think it's possible that maybe you have totally warped and misrepresented God?
Saqerlat's avatar

Familiar Prophet

Athena_Ritashe
One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.


God is not really mad at you in particular, or personally. What God hates is disobedience, wickedness, and sin. God knows you're not perfect, and He knows we are all sinners; which is why he sent Jesus to die to save us from our sins. If God didn't want you to exist, you wouldn't have.

Quote:
So which is it? Is God loving? Is he hateful and petty? Does he not really care? Is he each? If you are Hitler and you adore the followers who love and praise you why you are still a monster, no matter how kind you are to the Nazis who adore you. And just to take the analogy further: Is it okay what Hitler did to the Jews if he offered them a pardon if they denied their Jewishness and became Nazis? NO!


God didn't make you a slave, or a drone; he gave you free will. Which is why he wants you to see His way and choose Him openly, with your own mind. God loves believers and non-believers that's why He sent His son.

"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." - Luke 15:7

Quote:
Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshiping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.


God is not like Hitler because he is not fascist or racist. God is angry now, and was angry back then, because people around the world are making children child prostitutes, sacrificing their children to idols, not sharing wealth, practicing cannibalism, indulging in wicked behavior without a conscience, oppressing people, murdering one another ect. All the evil in the world is why God is really angry, not just because of your own personal sin and disbelief. God gives chances, which is why He's an open ear whenever people who have gone astray come to Him. He is merciful. And He loves you.
(Comparing God to Hitler is very strange considering His divine son is a Jew. neutral )

Quote:
Either you have totally warped and misrepresented God, or this “God” doesn’t really exist. How can God be so petty as to torture someone forever for not worshiping him, and yet be called “loving”? It makes no sense.


Unbelievers and unrighteous souls go to Sheol/Hades after they die. Believers who've died are already judged and dwell in paradise. Unbelievers, and the wicked, await the final judgement in the lost side of Sheol. (Sheol is a temporary holding place, almost like a prison). Wicked people, and unbelievers, who died unrepentant, will be resurrected for the final judgement. Jesus is the final judge of who goes to the eternal hell (the lake of fire) or not. The unforgivable sin is rejecting Jesus and His offer of forgiveness, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (And don't worry, you probably haven't done it.)
I would have to agree with you. You bring up a great point; how can God be so loving, yet so undeniably cruel? I don't particularly agree with any religion 100%. I cannot say what the character of God is and isn't.

However, I don't see any particular point in worshiping a God who will turn his/her back on you, the moment you do something bad. Maybe I just have unrealistic demands, but I don't necessarily believe that hell should exist for the reasons it does. We are given nothing on this Earth, and expected to be and do many things without much guidance.

If I could believe in any God, I would choose the God where everyone wins. However, its not up to me to decide, nor can I possibly argue with whatever God (or lack of God) actually exists.

And it may have been me who shouted out "Hey, Mormons don't believe in hell, check 'em out". I did not mean any disrespect IF you heard that on here. I tend to be an advocate for many things.
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God: "I love you, but since you refuse to follow my instructions and be perfect, I'm going too HAVE to make sure you suffer for it. It's YOUR fault I have to punish you. You broke the rules"

Abusive Husband: "I love you, but since you refuse to follow my instructions and be perfect, I'm going to HAVE to hit you. It's YOUR fault I hit you. You broke the rules."

God: "You're disgusting b/c of your sin. But I love you enough to sacrafice of myself to save you anyway. W/o me you're doomed."

Abusive Husband: "You're disgusting. No other man would want you. But I love you enough to stay with you anyway. W/o me you're doomed."

God: "I'm everpresent and see everything you do. You can't hide anything from me

Abusive Husband: "I read your emaills and texts, have a camera in the bedroom, a recorder in the livingroom, a tap on the phone. I follow you and have my friends watching you. You can't hide anything from me."

You figure it out.
Seems to me that you have a problem with the Holiness of God. God is not some stuffed teddy bear that says "I love you" when you push a button. Would you let a stranger in your house, if He knocked at the door and demanded to come in? If we don't treat God as God and know Him. Why should He let us in his house?
xXZirkannia's avatar

Interesting Citizen

Ameixah
Athena_Ritashe
One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.


God is not really mad at you in particular, or personally. What God hates is disobedience, wickedness, and sin. God knows you're not perfect, and He knows we are all sinners; which is why he sent Jesus to die to save us from our sins. If God didn't want you to exist, you wouldn't have.

Quote:
So which is it? Is God loving? Is he hateful and petty? Does he not really care? Is he each? If you are Hitler and you adore the followers who love and praise you why you are still a monster, no matter how kind you are to the Nazis who adore you. And just to take the analogy further: Is it okay what Hitler did to the Jews if he offered them a pardon if they denied their Jewishness and became Nazis? NO!


God didn't make you a slave, or a drone; he gave you free will. Which is why he wants you to see His way and choose Him openly, with your own mind. God loves believers and non-believers that's why He sent His son.

"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." - Luke 15:7

Quote:
Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshiping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.


God is not like Hitler because he is not fascist or racist. God is angry now, and was angry back then, because people around the world are making children child prostitutes, sacrificing their children to idols, not sharing wealth, practicing cannibalism, indulging in wicked behavior without a conscience, oppressing people, murdering one another ect. All the evil in the world is why God is really angry, not just because of your own personal sin and disbelief. God gives chances, which is why He's an open ear whenever people who have gone astray come to Him. He is merciful. And He loves you.
(Comparing God to Hitler is very strange considering His divine son is a Jew. neutral )

Quote:
Either you have totally warped and misrepresented God, or this “God” doesn’t really exist. How can God be so petty as to torture someone forever for not worshiping him, and yet be called “loving”? It makes no sense.


Unbelievers and unrighteous souls go to Sheol/Hades after they die. Believers who've died are already judged and dwell in paradise. Unbelievers, and the wicked, await the final judgement in the lost side of Sheol. (Sheol is a temporary holding place, almost like a prison). Wicked people, and unbelievers, who died unrepentant, will be resurrected for the final judgement. Jesus is the final judge of who goes to the eternal hell (the lake of fire) or not. The unforgivable sin is rejecting Jesus and His offer of forgiveness, and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (And don't worry, you probably haven't done it.)


Exactly this.
Could not have worded it better.
Ameixah
(Comparing God to Hitler is very strange considering His divine son is a Jew. neutral )


It's more that Hitler also sent Jews - amongst others - to be tortured and killed.
Saqerlat's avatar

Familiar Prophet

Lucky~9~Lives
Ameixah
(Comparing God to Hitler is very strange considering His divine son is a Jew. neutral )


It's more that Hitler also sent Jews - amongst others - to be tortured and killed.


Fascist/racist based genocide vs. a personal sacrifice. I don't see the correlation there. Hating a group and wanting to kill them off just because they're Jewish, Polish, Black, or mentally or physically disabled is not a good excuse. Hitler's reason for his god complex was not a justifiable one, it was almost childish. Who is he to define who is inferior; why should inferiority be measured by someone's ethnic origins? God heals the disabled, and loves all colours of His creation. Hitler himself was part North African, and Jewish. confused
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Ameixah
Lucky~9~Lives
Ameixah
(Comparing God to Hitler is very strange considering His divine son is a Jew. neutral )


It's more that Hitler also sent Jews - amongst others - to be tortured and killed.


Fascist/racist based genocide vs. a personal sacrifice. I don't see the correlation there. Hating a group and wanting to kill them off just because they're Jewish, Polish, Black, or mentally or physically disabled is not a good excuse. Hitler's reason for his god complex was not a justifiable one, it was almost childish. Who is he to define who is inferior; why should inferiority be measured by someone's ethnic origins? God heals the disabled, and loves all colours of His creation. Hitler himself was part North African, and Jewish. confused


By Christianity's standards it was more than justified. The man accepted Jesus Christ as his one and only God and savior, and was never excommunicated from any sect of Christianity formally for it.

Obviously nobody of any importance within the Christian religion considered Hitler non-christian or heretical enough to sever ties between him and God.

By all definitions that hold weight, Hitler was a true Christian.

Saqerlat's avatar

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stealthmongoose
By all definitions that hold weight, Hitler was a true Christian.


I seriously hope you're joking. confused

And why do you believe that? You know what he did right?
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Ameixah
stealthmongoose
By all definitions that hold weight, Hitler was a true Christian.


rofl I hope you're joking. confused

How so? You know what he did right?


I understand he held belief in Jesus Christ and never abandoned that belief until his death bed. Also, for those of you who missed it, here's the rest of that quote.

Quote:
By Christianity's standards it was more than justified. The man accepted Jesus Christ as his one and only God and savior, and was never excommunicated from any sect of Christianity formally for it.

Obviously nobody of any importance within the Christian religion considered Hitler non-christian or heretical enough to sever ties between him and God.

By all definitions that hold weight, Hitler was a true Christian.


Cherry pick your own scripture, b***h. The man never renounced his belief.

EDIT: If you wish to make Hitler a non-Christian, you must remove the clause that states that belief in Jesus is required to get to heaven.

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