My problem with Christianity

[IronySandwich]

imSecond

You have a twisted view of The Lord. ALL your sins you do, have done, or ever will do was taken on by Christ Jesus when He died for you.

I didn't ask him to die on my behalf. And if I had been offered the choice I certainly wouldn't have allowed it to happen. What kind of morality allows the supposedly guilty to be "forgiven" by killing of an innocent?

Oh, and these "sins" you speak of, let's not forget that I supposedly have them by virtue of something my umpteen hundredth great grandparents did. So not only do you expect me to ask for forgiveness for inherited guilt I was supposedly created with, but you're telling me the way out is to accept that the death of an innocent is what's required for that forgiveness to be given.

[sweetune]

IronySandwich

imSecond

You have a twisted view of The Lord. ALL your sins you do, have done, or ever will do was taken on by Christ Jesus when He died for you.

I didn't ask him to die on my behalf. And if I had been offered the choice I certainly wouldn't have allowed it to happen. What kind of morality allows the supposedly guilty to be "forgiven" by killing of an innocent?

Oh, and these "sins" you speak of, let's not forget that I supposedly have them by virtue of something my umpteen hundredth great grandparents did. So not only do you expect me to ask for forgiveness for inherited guilt I was supposedly created with, but you're telling me the way out is to accept that the death of an innocent is what's required for that forgiveness to be given.

Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. – Romans 5:2-6

Trying to explain life, is like trying to prove with hard facts that God exists. It's a vicious circle of concepts that can never be fully grasped.

Suffering brings happiness to life too. We learn very much from those experiences as long as we choose to view them as such.

You can suffer for doing good. You can suffer for doing bad. You can also do nothing. But, they are yours. They will always be with you.

Such lessons are taught in 1 Peter.

The moment we ate from the fruit of knowledge, we became independent from God. Nobody can truly control our minds and freewill.

[GunsmithKitten]

sweetune

The moment we ate from the fruit of knowledge, we became independent from God. Nobody can truly control our minds and freewill.

Orly?

Explain why Pharoah's heart was deliberatley hardened by God, or why God literally forced several tribes of Israel's enemies to wage wars they couldn't win?

[IronySandwich]

sweetune

IronySandwich

imSecond

You have a twisted view of The Lord. ALL your sins you do, have done, or ever will do was taken on by Christ Jesus when He died for you.

I didn't ask him to die on my behalf. And if I had been offered the choice I certainly wouldn't have allowed it to happen. What kind of morality allows the supposedly guilty to be "forgiven" by killing of an innocent?

Oh, and these "sins" you speak of, let's not forget that I supposedly have them by virtue of something my umpteen hundredth great grandparents did. So not only do you expect me to ask for forgiveness for inherited guilt I was supposedly created with, but you're telling me the way out is to accept that the death of an innocent is what's required for that forgiveness to be given.

Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. – Romans 5:2-6

Trying to explain life, is like trying to prove with hard facts that God exists. It's a vicious circle of concepts that can never be fully grasped.

Suffering brings happiness to life too. We learn very much from those experiences as long as we choose to view them as such.

You can suffer for doing good. You can suffer for doing bad. You can also do nothing. But, they are yours. They will always be with you.

Such lessons are taught in 1 Peter.

The moment we ate from the fruit of knowledge, we became independent from God. Nobody can truly control our minds and freewill.

Interesting how nothing you said has anything at all to do with what I said. It's like your so programmed to spout off these meaningless statements you can't be bothered to actually think about what you've read, if you even read it at all.

None of what you said justifies the Christian notion of inherited guilt, nor the Christian notion that human sacrifice (of an innocent no less) is a credible way to atone for guilt.

I don't accept that I am "sinful" by birthright, and I don't accept that this "sin" can be forgiven by the killing of an innocent.

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Silence_Walker

By Christian doctrine, God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent.

Source?

[dh8d1]

Lucky~9~Lives

Silence_Walker

By Christian doctrine, God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnibenevolent.

Source?

I am an ex-christian, and I verify his assertion is what the doctrine teaches.

[Artifex_Taberna]

I think that the bible, even if it was originally written by people who was truly touched to write the word of god, saying that there is one true god. Those words over the thousands of years have been so twisted and remade for what ever reason that if there really is a God, he is crying right now at how his words look.

I agree with almost every thing that was said in the first post. For a while I have wondered how a god could be both loving AND so full of hate that he would send people to hell that were good people.

I have 2 more questions I would like to ask of the posters in this thread.

What happens to the people that never get to hear the word of god?

Say there is a tribe in Africa, 1000 years ago they use to worship fauls idles. This would make them go to hell. BUT in the last 100 years they gave up there idles of there own accord. They start to live there life in every way the bible asks you to. HOW EVER no one ever told them about god, and the bible. They did this all for them self. But because they never took god into there heart, they all go to hell? How is that a good thing for a all loving god to do?

And second. What would you do if another book of the bible was wrote today. The person who writes it is a very long time christian of powerful faith. He truly believes god told him to write this new word of god. but the word some were says that you do not have to take god into your heart to go to heaven you just have to live a good life. How would that change you, would you change your beliefs or would you refuse a new word?

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[alko hall]

Call me crazy, but I have a hard time worshipping any sort of all-knowing being who would create man knowing he'd sin and punish him anyway, and then offer redemption to humanity by sending himself down to earth as a sacrifice to himself.

[blackcyclamens]

Good Lord. eek

[Lucky~9~Lives]

blackcyclamens

Good Lord. eek

God is not a dog.
- scream

Unless you're very dyslexic.

[Golden Black Tea]

Athena_Ritashe

In your religion you have a loving God, who created everything, and then you have humans who ate a fruit and who sinned, and you have Jesus, who took God’s wrath and saved everyone, and all I have to do is believe and repent. One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.

What makes you believe that simply existing is the problem? Adam and Eve existed and God was cool with them until they disobeyed Him.

Quote:

Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.”

Christianity has the same doctrine as well. It's rooted in God's sovereignty, which is a fancy word for "Supreme Ruler". If God is all powerful and all seeing, then you can imagine that His sovereignty works at the fullest extent, down to the atomic level.

Secondly, the description of God is a pretty inaccurate one since you didn't consider the fact that Biblically speaking, He provides a way out for all men. Before time existed (Eph 1: 4-8, Rev 13: cool , Jesus and God had already designed a plan for salvation for all men. If you read any of the four Gospels, Romans, any of Paul's Letters, or pretty much anything in the New Testament, you'd see it all over the place.

Quote:

Either you have totally warped and misrepresented God, or this “God” doesn’t really exist. How can God be so petty as to torture someone forever for not worshiping him, and yet be called “loving”? It makes no sense.

It actually makes complete sense. When one offends a person of high status, a sense of equal punishment might be given in relation to the status of the one offended. If a man punched a king in the face, he might face a much long sentence than if he had punched a homeless man in the face. Side note: Culturally speaking, our justice system works on a different level, but the Bible and our culture often clash and do not assume congruent systems of justice, so it might not even make sense to compare.

If a person offends a being that is incredibly Holy (I'm talking about a level of Holiness humans cannot possibly imagine), then I wouldn't be surprised that God would decide to punish that being with the level of punishment He decides is best. If eternal punishment is the answer, then that is a high indicator of how Holy this God is. It may seem extreme (One could argue this), but again, God provides a way out with Jesus.

You're assuming that people have a warped sense of God, but if you only read your Bible, you would see for yourself.

[Cynoscion]

Sounds like someone spent far too much time listening to people and never opened a bible. God is love, and those who love know God, and God knows them. If someone is preaching fear, hellfire, or condemnation, that is not of God, that is of Satan the devil.

For God has not given us the spirit of fear: but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

If God didn't give us the spirit of fear, then it is of the devil, and those who preach fear cannot be preaching the will of God because God has not given us the spirit of fear.

God is light, and in Him is no darkness.

You can either listen to what people say, or you can listen to what God says. God loves us and does so freely and unconditionally. He loves us so much that He gave His only begotten Son for us, and that's the kind of love that we are supposed to have for one another. If someone claims to be of God, and doesn't love his or her brothers and sisters in Christ, that person is a liar, for how can someone love God, who he or she has not seen, when he or she doesn't love his or her brother or sister, who they have seen? We're told to love one another, and those who do not do so are not walking in love.

[GunsmithKitten]

IronySandwich

I didn't ask him to die on my behalf. And if I had been offered the choice I certainly wouldn't have allowed it to happen. What kind of morality allows the supposedly guilty to be "forgiven" by killing of an innocent?

Oh, and these "sins" you speak of, let's not forget that I supposedly have them by virtue of something my umpteen hundredth great grandparents did. So not only do you expect me to ask for forgiveness for inherited guilt I was supposedly created with, but you're telling me the way out is to accept that the death of an innocent is what's required for that forgiveness to be given.

Not to mention that laundry list of new requirements for your life after you accept this sacrifice. Bet nobody was fairly clear about that part of the contract with you either. They weren't with me.

[GunsmithKitten]

sweetune

The moment we ate from the fruit of knowledge, we became independent from God. Nobody can truly control our minds and freewill.

Except for Pharoah and a number of Israel's enemies in Canaan.

[GunsmithKitten]

Anolis18

Sounds like someone spent far too much time listening to people and never opened a bible.

I spoke at youth rallies and tent revivals, ace. I knew the Bible whether I wanted it or not.

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He loves us so much that He gave His only begotten Son for us, and that's the kind of love that we are supposed to have for one another. If

So if someone starts setting up a commerce where I dont' think they should, i can show love by taking a bullwhip to them? AWESOME!