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Well, the Bible teaches that God is “a lover of justice.” (Psalm 37:2 cool So he cares deeply about what is right and what is wrong. He hates all kinds of injustice. The Bible says that God “felt hurt at his heart” when badness filled the world in times past. (Genesis 6:5, 6) He still hates to see the suffering that is taking place worldwide. And God hates to see people suffer. “He cares for you,” the Bible says.1 Peter 5:7.
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Athena_Ritashe
Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.

I don't think that's the case. If you're so sure, please cite scripture that backs your claims.

Quote:
Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshipping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.

I'm sorry you feel this way. Fact is, I don't agree with what you have stated God to be, possibly because your version of God is drastically different and warped from my version of the Christian God.

Quote:
It makes no sense.

I understand. In Christianity, it is okay to ask questions and be critical about our beliefs so that we learn and become more knowledgable in the faith. If you're interested, I can answer any questions and confusion you have about Christianity. Thanks for this thread topic. It sets people to thinking.
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That hurt my head...
your head wasnt made right.
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Shaiya626_Legend
Well, the Bible teaches that God is “a lover of justice.” (Psalm 37:2 cool So he cares deeply about what is right and what is wrong. He hates all kinds of injustice. The Bible says that God “felt hurt at his heart” when badness filled the world in times past. (Genesis 6:5, 6) He still hates to see the suffering that is taking place worldwide. And God hates to see people suffer. “He cares for you,” the Bible says.1 Peter 5:7.
that is supposed to be used for us to look at him as a rolemodel, to hate injustice and to hate suffering. Yet if we still look to him as a rolemodel we see how he told people to massacre villages and take women and belongings, and that there being no deaths would be proof god is real, well there were no deaths because they were peaceful, they came in and slaughtered people who werent armed, and forced women to be 'taken' or marry and even killed children above a certain age, probably because they would be unconvertable. But if the women are inconvertable as well from being passed a certain age, they were seen as property obviously. And what kind of rolemodel is that? Oh right, one that promotes rape, like those kids in ohio in the news lately, where hackers got the video and exposed it.
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People feel the need to believe, so that when something happens they can say it was not their fault. Also it is the same situation with anything people get scared of being alone, so they project what they "need" on their god(s). For some people/religions, that is a harsh parent who punishes you for wrong, others that is a loving hand that cradles you and points you in the right directions,and for others it is the idea that there is something bigger that life has a meaning. So then we come to people who believe because that is what they have been taught. God was created so people have a reason for living, especially back before the middle ages, when the common people would toil all day working at the fields with no time for much else, they lived for the idea of heaven, their lives were working to that goal. That if they worked hard, in a pleasure-less live they would have salvation.
That is god.
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If I had to choose between the Abrahamic faiths, I'd choose one of the forms of Judaism. At least they usually admit their god is freaking insane, or at least an a*****e. Meanwhile Christians and Muslims typically preach about how loving and kind their god is. Judging by what I've heard and read about this god, I don't think He's a loving god, just a crazy one.
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My problem with this specific religion out of the many others, are the claims of divine existence that have remained forever unfounded.
That is the base of my argument.
There has never been an instance of divine presence proven to be true.
All claims are based on personal experiences that can be easily explained in medicine and biology, this particular one is based on experiences and writings of simple, unlearned men in an impoverished and unforgiving land.
There are many reasons that monotheistic Christianity never arose in China, where the people were generally better educated and better housed.
Regardless, I have no qualm with the religious, neither the proselytizing Christians or the secular Buddhists.
I only ask that they remain out of the law, as men can swing a sword in good conscience if they're doing it for their gods.
I'm talking about you, crusaders, jihadists and warrior Sikhs.


P.S. In response to the little girl on the first page who said I would burn in her god's purgatory for not worshiping it: It is frightening that you would worship an abomination that would torture people like my mother, who devoted her life to saving lives in her work as a surgeon, simply because she chose not to bend to your dangerous and unfounded worldview--and don't give me that politically correct new-age schtick about your god judging the just for their actions in life. Your scriptures are clear, and as atheists we both deserve eternal pain and anguish. Don't pervert your holy book any more than it already has been.
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Athena_Ritashe
In your religion you have a loving God, who created everything, and then you have humans who ate a fruit and who sinned, and you have Jesus, who took God’s wrath and saved everyone, and all I have to do is believe and repent. One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.


Not all Christians actually believe that. I am a Christian Scientist and the whole story of Adam and Eve is an allegory or metaphor for us, we do not believe in Original Sin or any of that.

Athena_Ritashe
So which is it? Is God loving? Is he hateful and petty? Does he not really care? Is he each? If you are Hitler and you adore the followers who love and praise you why you are still a monster, no matter how kind you are to the Nazis who adore you. And just to take the analogy further: Is it okay what Hitler did to the Jews if he offered them a pardon if they denied their Jewishness and became Nazis? NO!


In Christian Science we believe in a loving God, a forgiving God.
Though your analogy seemed incomplete, so I can't address that. Unless you're saying God is good to some and not to others? Then it that case, no, my first statement about God suffices.

Athena_Ritashe
Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshipping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.


I agree with you. I am also scared by many Islamists and Christians for their beliefs. Though I'm being redundant in saying that not all Christian denominations share the same belief(s).
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Christien Chalfant
I am a Christian Scientist..


That must be the cutest oxymoron I've ever heard.
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Ginnjii
Christien Chalfant
I am a Christian Scientist..


That must be the cutest oxymoron I've ever heard.


It's ok that you don't actually know what it means. Most people don't.

Definition of Science: the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding

Christian Science: a religion founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1866 that was organized under the official name of the Church of Christ, Scientist, that derives its teachings from the Scriptures as understood by its adherents, and that includes a practice of spiritual healing.

So really, the religion being called Christian Science is not an oxymoron.
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Christien Chalfant
It's ok that you don't actually know what it means. Most people don't.


I'm rather glad most people don't. Nancy Brewster and all those other kids who've suffered this dogma based neglect in particular would've been rather glad as well.


Christien Chalfant
Definition of Science: the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding


This definition doesn't exactly help, you know. Especially with regard to the words I've italicized.


Christien Chalfant
Christian Science: a religion pseudoscientific belief system founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1866 that was organized under the official name of the Church of Christ, Scientist, that derives its teachings from the Scriptures as understood an unfalsifiable set of beliefs by its adherents, and that includes a practice of spiritual healing .

So really, the religion being called Christian Science is not an oxymoron.


First. It's an oxymoron in the sense that, Science is a method of observation, testing and empiricism. Christianity, regardless of the denomination adheres to some sort of dogma with beliefs to be followed, while Science, even if you were to accuse academic science of adhering to any dogma, it would be along the lines of repeatable experimentation, empirical evidence, peer review, and objectivity which I wouldn't really call dogma but common sense.

So yes, in a general sense without delving into pointless arguments of semantics, I find it a cute oxymoron.

Out of curiosity though, spiritual healing? I assume it was the lack of faith in the poor seven year old girl that it failed to achieve the desired results and cure her lymphoma.


Christien Chalfant
I agree with you. I am also scared by many Islamists Muslims and Christians for their beliefs. Though I'm being redundant in saying that not all Christian denominations share the same belief(s)


I find your beliefs just as mortifying. Points for the No True Scotsman fallacy employed too.

inb4 - "No true god-loving god-fearing Christian Scientist would do that!"
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Ginnjii
Christien Chalfant
It's ok that you don't actually know what it means. Most people don't.


I'm rather glad most people don't. Nancy Brewster and all those other kids who've suffered this dogma based neglect in particular would've been rather glad as well.

Nancy Brewster was abused by her mother who was doing it saying she was doing it under Christian Science when she was not. A mother beating her child and making her exercise in over a 100 degree weather is not Christian Science, that's called child abuse.

Ginnjii
Christien Chalfant
Definition of Science: the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding


This definition doesn't exactly help, you know. Especially with regard to the words I've italicized.

Sure. Whatever you think. But Christian Science focuses on understanding how healing works, as in not just blindly faith and believing in God just by saying things like I take Jesus as my savior. Though I can see your point from the standing of someone who does not believe in God.

Ginnjii
Christien Chalfant
Christian Science: a religion pseudoscientific belief system founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1866 that was organized under the official name of the Church of Christ, Scientist, that derives its teachings from the Scriptures as understood an unfalsifiable set of beliefs by its adherents, and that includes a practice of spiritual healing .

So really, the religion being called Christian Science is not an oxymoron.


First. It's an oxymoron in the sense that, Science is a method of observation, testing and empiricism. Christianity, regardless of the denomination adheres to some sort of dogma with beliefs to be followed, while Science, even if you were to accuse academic science of adhering to any dogma, it would be along the lines of repeatable experimentation, empirical evidence, peer review, and objectivity which I wouldn't really call dogma but common sense.

So yes, in a general sense without delving into pointless arguments of semantics, I find it a cute oxymoron.

Out of curiosity though, spiritual healing? I assume it was the lack of faith in the poor seven year old girl that it failed to achieve the desired results and cure her lymphoma.

The book called "Science and Health" by Mary Baker Eddy has a huge chapter in book called 'Fruitage.' The chapter are testimonials of people who have been healed through Christian Science. Healings with witnesses. Also over the course of Mary Baker Eddy writing "Science and Health" she had to do empirical studies on her discovery (multiple healings on herself, patients, and even strangers), Christian Science, while continuously editing and revising her book "Science and Health" before finally publishing it.
Spiritual Healing has a different meaning for Christian Science. As I said, it does not emphasize faith as much as other denominations.
Spirit in Christian Science defines as "God or divine substance." Christian Science believes that there are three realms: The Divine, The Human, and The Material. So Spiritual Healing is when the Human transcends into the Divine. This does not necessarily mean ascension though. As I said before. The mother was not practicing Christian Science, she was abusing her child under a false guise, that is not Christian Science.

Ginnjii
Christien Chalfant
I agree with you. I am also scared by many Islamists Muslims and Christians for their beliefs. Though I'm being redundant in saying that not all Christian denominations share the same belief(s)


I find your beliefs just as mortifying. Points for the No True Scotsman fallacy employed too.

inb4 - "No true god-loving god-fearing Christian Scientist would do that!"

Well your view of my beliefs are false if you based them on that site called Rational Wiki where you got the Nancy Brewster story, which is not even Christian Science. The mother may have identified with Christian Science, but she was not practicing Christian Science.
So the fallacy doesn't really apply. People can identify with whatever group they want as do any actions they want. But their poor choice of actions can not always be blamed on the group if it does not follow the groups beliefs.
Rational Wiki:
Quote:
Homosexuality – Marriage is for procreation, and is a blessing from and of God. Hence, it is likely that as a Church, they would not support gay marriage. However, gay relationships must be seen as a part of the human condition, though they also say all people are not as pure as Jesus, and strive in their own life to grow spiritually. While this line supposedly suggests that gay members should be accepted openly, it is tainted with some idea that it is not as healthy or godly as heterosexuality.

This is false. Homosexuality is not even mentioned in "Science and Health." So if Christian Scientists have a view on Homosexuality it is their own individuals view, not the churches. In regards to Marriage: "Union of the masculine and feminine qualities constitutes completeness. The masculine mind reaches a higher tone through certain elements of the feminine, while the feminine mind gains courage and strength through masculine qualities. These different elements conjoin naturally with each other, and their true harmony is in spiritual oneness." - Science and Health.
So you should Read This before actually believing a Wiki site nonetheless.
Regardless. I'm not here to argue about my religion and personal beliefs. I addressed the OP so my work here is done.
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God did not create sin... you imply that my God is cruel? merciless?
but in actuality that is just how you see him as, perhaps it is you who is warped? (after all man is never perfect)
Oh, but he did. The Bible makes it clear that God is the ultimate creator of sin (since he created everything), and it must have been intentional if he's really omnipotent and omniscient. Why a perfectly good God who despises sin would do such a thing is beyond me. This is a clear contradiction between God's supposed attributes and his actions. If God hates sin so much, it makes no sense that he would bring it about. And if God is unable to sin, it seems that he would not be able to intentionally cause sin either, no matter how indirectly he did so.

MySecretConfession
God does not condemn people to hell, they throw themselves into satan's arms.
Worship him? You just need to love him ( and by loving him you serve his people: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, love thy enemy, be kind to those who hurt you, forgive those who persecute you) and trust in his mercy.
God does condemn people to hell, albeit the people he condemns are people who "sin" and "reject belief." This was entirely his choice. Did we unbelievers ever ask to be sent to hell by the Christian God because our worldviews and lifestyles are displeasing to him? Negatory. This was apparently just imposed on us by a God who is spoken of in a book we don't believe.

I'm absotively posilutely certain that God does request worship in the Bible.

MySecretConfession
he gave his creatures everything.. power, freedom, life..
even when one of his angels envied him and chose to go against him, he didn't destroy him
Maybe he shouldn't have created this deranged fallen angel in the first place. Why was it better for him to create Satan than it would've been for him to simply avoid making Satan?
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This is hilarious.

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