IRA Comeback in 2010?

[Camera Stellata]

METALFumasu

dio777

On another note, this 2004 poll says 59% favour a continued union with Great Britain. Only 22% desired a re-union with Ireland

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

Food for thought biggrin

Hate to shoot you down dio, but here's a little updated food for thought. Looks like both reunification and continued union have dropped a bit...

Will the IRA rise again in 2010?

As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."

Still overwhelmingly pro union though. Its just divided between with devolved assembly or without.

In fact by my reckoning that's now a 69% in favour of a continued union with Great Britain.

My guess is long after all of us here are dead and buried Ulster will still be an active part of this grand union of ours.

[Kia Eriks]

dio777

METALFumasu

dio777

On another note, this 2004 poll says 59% favour a continued union with Great Britain. Only 22% desired a re-union with Ireland

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

Food for thought biggrin

Hate to shoot you down dio, but here's a little updated food for thought. Looks like both reunification and continued union have dropped a bit...

Will the IRA rise again in 2010?

As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."

Still overwhelmingly pro union though. Its just divided between with devolved assembly or without.

In fact by my reckoning that's now a 69% in favour of a continued union with Great Britain.

My guess is long after all of us here are dead and buried Ulster will still be an active part of this grand union of ours.

/Eh. We'll have to see. It sucks, though, because that's basically the last major mass of land that is still in complete British control. I mean, India, Australia, and most other British-controlled territories have become independent states by now. The only other states I can think of are the other Gaelic states, but those are all located on the UK mainlands. (Scotland, Wales, etc.)

[M3thod Mak3r]

Redem

"Terrorism" is merely the resistance of people you disagree with. The IRA are fighting for our freedom, nominally.

Except I don't disagree with the cause. If the majority of Irish people want independence from the british, they should have it, using reasonable means.

M3thod Mak3r

In addition, do you know how much money Ireland makes annually on tourism? Look it up. I promise that an increase in violence would slash those numbers way, way down.

Redem

So?

So I care about the well being of the Irish people! I don't want their quality of life to decrease because of a faction's radical actions.

M3thod Mak3r

I sympathize with the Irish. I really do. In this modern age, is violence really necessary to negotiate a separation from Britain? I'd encourage non-violent protests, modeling say, India.

Redem

We had them. The British army shot at them from time to time. Peaceful protest did not win India's freedom, an exhausted Britain and an unruly Indian populace did.
We have the right to fight for our freedoms as most other free nations did. We just have little opportunity to, given the disparity in military power. Asymmetrical warfare is an ugly option, but the alternative is to capitulate or to be slaughtered. Which would you prefer?

Again, please cite a recent example of British violence against peaceful protesters, say within the past 10 years. I'll have to disagree with your analysis of India's path to freedom, and I'll leave it at that.

M3thod Mak3r

I simply can't accept the 'collateral damage' excuse. In the ethics or war, collateral damage is only allowable if a legitimate target is established, which the IRA does not have.

Redem

The armed forces of an occupying foreign nation isn't a legitimate target? Nor are their economic and governmental centres?

I take issue with your characterization of British forces. I haven't heard of the British armed minority somehow restricting Irish from traveling as they like, conducting business, creating local laws ex. I don't think you'll get much sympathy if you try to characterize Ireland as living under a harsh, threatening military, especially from the French and Polish. As a native of the US, I take issue with your definition of legitimate targets for terrorism. Thousands of innocent americans died when terrorists attacked 'economic and governmental' centers. Workplaces are not warzones.

[Le Pere Duchesne]

Quote:

I take issue with your characterization of British forces. I haven't heard of the British armed minority somehow restricting Irish from traveling as they like, conducting business, creating local laws ex. I don't think you'll get much sympathy if you try to characterize Ireland as living under a harsh, threatening military, especially from the French and Polish. As a native of the US, I take issue with your definition of legitimate targets for terrorism. Thousands of innocent americans died when terrorists attacked 'economic and governmental' centers. Workplaces are not warzones.

Except NI is living under military occupation. That this may currently be less obviously harsh as that suffered by other countries under other occupying powers is beside the point.

As for your last point, that a separation must be made between the military forces of the occupation and the civilians, this is correct. Attacking protestant civilians only serves to drive a wedge between the oppressed proetestant workers and the oppressed Irish people.

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

[Kia Eriks]

Gracchia Blanqui

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

/I can drink to that. But the chances of that happening are slim to none. It's hard to get a major majority together like that anymore. So many people can't make up their minds. Or, if worst comes to worst, they eat the biggest red herring that comes their way.

[Le Pere Duchesne]

Kia Eriks

Gracchia Blanqui

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

/I can drink to that. But the chances of that happening are slim to none. It's hard to get a major majority together like that anymore. So many people can't make up their minds. Or, if worst comes to worst, they eat the biggest red herring that comes their way.

It happened before and it can happen again. Just as there was lots of preparation before the events in 1932, so now lots of preparation is needed, but now we need lots of preparation just to get anything done. sweatdrop

[Kia Eriks]

Gracchia Blanqui

Quote:

Kia Eriks

Gracchia Blanqui

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

/I can drink to that. But the chances of that happening are slim to none. It's hard to get a major majority together like that anymore. So many people can't make up their minds. Or, if worst comes to worst, they eat the biggest red herring that comes their way.

It happened before and it can happen again. Just as there was lots of preparation before the events in 1932, so now lots of preparation is needed, but now we need lots of preparation just to get anything done. sweatdrop

/Well, sitting around talking doesn't do much good. In the modern day, violence is the only way to get a message through, it seems. I mean, a good example is Iran. Personally, I couldn't care if they work on nuclear engineering. As long as they're not building bombs, I'm good. But the fact of the matter is that the rest of the world just doesn't want them to be touching uranium. But what does Iran go and do anyways?

I don't support senseless violence in any form, but it seems like the key to a solution 90% of the time. It sucks to say that, but it's the truth. Let's just hope that one day, we'll come up with something that doesn't involve pointing a gun in another person's face to come to an agreement.

[Herobane]

Kia Eriks

Gracchia Blanqui

Quote:

Kia Eriks

Gracchia Blanqui

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

/I can drink to that. But the chances of that happening are slim to none. It's hard to get a major majority together like that anymore. So many people can't make up their minds. Or, if worst comes to worst, they eat the biggest red herring that comes their way.

It happened before and it can happen again. Just as there was lots of preparation before the events in 1932, so now lots of preparation is needed, but now we need lots of preparation just to get anything done. sweatdrop

/Well, sitting around talking doesn't do much good. In the modern day, violence is the only way to get a message through, it seems. I mean, a good example is Iran. Personally, I couldn't care if they work on nuclear engineering. As long as they're not building bombs, I'm good. But the fact of the matter is that the rest of the world just doesn't want them to be touching uranium. But what does Iran go and do anyways?

I don't support senseless violence in any form, but it seems like the key to a solution 90% of the time. It sucks to say that, but it's the truth. Let's just hope that one day, we'll come up with something that doesn't involve pointing a gun in another person's face to come to an agreement.

As you said earlier: I can drink to that.

[Redem]

M3thod Mak3r

Except I don't disagree with the cause. If the majority of Irish people want independence from the british, they should have it, using reasonable means.

I'm sure "reasonable means" is a lovely idea, but it rarely moves the heart of a tyrant.

M3thod Mak3r

So I care about the well being of the Irish people! I don't want their quality of life to decrease because of a faction's radical actions.

You care about their well being enough to tell them to give up on freedom so they can provide a nicer tourist resort location for bored foreigners?

M3thod Mak3r

Again, please cite a recent example of British violence against peaceful protesters, say within the past 10 years.

Why the last ten years? Is there a statute of limitations on such crimes that I should give a damn about?

M3thod Mak3r

I take issue with your characterization of British forces. I haven't heard of the British armed minority somehow restricting Irish from traveling as they like, conducting business, creating local laws ex. I don't think you'll get much sympathy if you try to characterize Ireland as living under a harsh, threatening military, especially from the French and Polish.

It is through the actions of the IRA that we gained what freedom we have now. And that's mostly a political process that's so tied up in itself that it can't do much of anything. And only then what powers we're permitted to have by the British government.
The occupying british did not give up their privileges willingly.

M3thod Mak3r

As a native of the US, I take issue with your definition of legitimate targets for terrorism. Thousands of innocent americans died when terrorists attacked 'economic and governmental' centers. Workplaces are not warzones.

Perhaps you should take issue with your own armed forces first, then. They're not shy about attacking political or economic assets. Or civilians, for that matter. Need I point out Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as well as the fire-bombing of Tokyo. It's the standard operating procedure of armies worldwide. Why are we suddenly denied the same targets now?

Gracchia Blanqui

What is needed is a party which will unite protestant workers in the North and Irish workers, both in the occupied North and in the Republic, in opposition to the imperialist UK capitalists and the local Irish compradore capitalists, both enemies of the Irish working class.

Hah! Yeah, that'll happen.

[Camera Stellata]

Kia Eriks

dio777

METALFumasu

dio777

On another note, this 2004 poll says 59% favour a continued union with Great Britain. Only 22% desired a re-union with Ireland

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

Food for thought biggrin

Hate to shoot you down dio, but here's a little updated food for thought. Looks like both reunification and continued union have dropped a bit...

Will the IRA rise again in 2010?

As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."

Still overwhelmingly pro union though. Its just divided between with devolved assembly or without.

In fact by my reckoning that's now a 69% in favour of a continued union with Great Britain.

My guess is long after all of us here are dead and buried Ulster will still be an active part of this grand union of ours.

/Eh. We'll have to see. It sucks, though, because that's basically the last major mass of land that is still in complete British control. I mean, India, Australia, and most other British-controlled territories have become independent states by now. The only other states I can think of are the other Gaelic states, but those are all located on the UK mainlands. (Scotland, Wales, etc.)

You make it sound like a bad thing

These arnt imperial holdings anyway, theyre part of a union, particularly in the case of Scotland. I don't see how Northern Ireland being part of the UK is any worse than Texas being a part of the US. Both we're ensured through violent means at some point or another.

I think most of our detractors outside of Ireland are just English hating bigots. Especially the Irish-Americans and Irish-Australians and Irish-Canadians who act all 'more Irish than thou' and yet never have and never will spill a single drop of blood for their much professed cause.

[Camera Stellata]

Gracchia Blanqui

Except NI is living under military occupation.

Occupied by their own armed forces?

The military wouldn't need to be there if a militant minority weren't trying to impose their will upon the largely pro-union/power sharing majority.

[Kia Eriks]

Quote:

dio777

Kia Eriks

dio777

METALFumasu

dio777

On another note, this 2004 poll says 59% favour a continued union with Great Britain. Only 22% desired a re-union with Ireland

http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2004/Political_Attitudes/NIRELAND.html

Food for thought biggrin

Hate to shoot you down dio, but here's a little updated food for thought. Looks like both reunification and continued union have dropped a bit...

Will the IRA rise again in 2010?

As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."

Still overwhelmingly pro union though. Its just divided between with devolved assembly or without.

In fact by my reckoning that's now a 69% in favour of a continued union with Great Britain.

My guess is long after all of us here are dead and buried Ulster will still be an active part of this grand union of ours.

/Eh. We'll have to see. It sucks, though, because that's basically the last major mass of land that is still in complete British control. I mean, India, Australia, and most other British-controlled territories have become independent states by now. The only other states I can think of are the other Gaelic states, but those are all located on the UK mainlands. (Scotland, Wales, etc.)

You make it sound like a bad thing

These arnt imperial holdings anyway, theyre part of a union, particularly in the case of Scotland. I don't see how Northern Ireland being part of the UK is any worse than Texas being a part of the US. Both we're ensured through violent means at some point or another.

I think most of our detractors outside of Ireland are just English hating bigots. Especially the Irish-Americans and Irish-Australians and Irish-Canadians who act all 'more Irish than thou' and yet never have and never will spill a single drop of blood for their much professed cause.

/Eh. That's another point of it. But still, I'm all for a fully unified island. I mean, it's a very weak analogy, but I view NI being something similar to if the UK still owned Maine or something. It's just my personal opinion and, as I said, it interests me to see a unified Republic.

Also, coming from a yank who doesn't even know where the Irish came in his blood, I'm not against the British at all. They're very nice people when they're not invading your lands and claiming everything you own as their own. But they tend to have an air that presents themselves as trying to be the best of the best. I suppose having an empire where, at one point, you could see the sun rise and set at the same time would make one a bit cocky.

But, that aside, I'm not against working for a cause that supports a unified Republic. One complication lies solely in the fact that I'm an 18-year-old American who doesn't have the money nor time to commit to such a 'professed cause', as you say.

[Camera Stellata]

Kia Eriks

Quote:

dio777

Kia Eriks

dio777

Still overwhelmingly pro union though. Its just divided between with devolved assembly or without.

In fact by my reckoning that's now a 69% in favour of a continued union with Great Britain.

My guess is long after all of us here are dead and buried Ulster will still be an active part of this grand union of ours.

/Eh. We'll have to see. It sucks, though, because that's basically the last major mass of land that is still in complete British control. I mean, India, Australia, and most other British-controlled territories have become independent states by now. The only other states I can think of are the other Gaelic states, but those are all located on the UK mainlands. (Scotland, Wales, etc.)

You make it sound like a bad thing

These arnt imperial holdings anyway, theyre part of a union, particularly in the case of Scotland. I don't see how Northern Ireland being part of the UK is any worse than Texas being a part of the US. Both we're ensured through violent means at some point or another.

I think most of our detractors outside of Ireland are just English hating bigots. Especially the Irish-Americans and Irish-Australians and Irish-Canadians who act all 'more Irish than thou' and yet never have and never will spill a single drop of blood for their much professed cause.

/Eh. That's another point of it. But still, I'm all for a fully unified island. I mean, it's a very weak analogy, but I view NI being something similar to if the UK still owned Maine or something. It's just my personal opinion and, as I said, it interests me to see a unified Republic.

Also, coming from a yank who doesn't even know where the Irish came in his blood, I'm not against the British at all. They're very nice people when they're not invading your lands and claiming everything you own as their own. But they tend to have an air that presents themselves as trying to be the best of the best. I suppose having an empire where, at one point, you could see the sun rise and set at the same time would make one a bit cocky.

But, that aside, I'm not against working for a cause that supports a unified Republic. One complication lies solely in the fact that I'm an 18-year-old American who doesn't have the money nor time to commit to such a 'professed cause', as you say.

The only problem with the Maine comparison is that for it to be fair you would have to assume as per my poll most people there wanted either complete union with Britain or some continued union with a devolved assembly.

That 'air' you mentioned probably comes with believing you have the moral authority to conquer other countries and order their societies for the better. If self government is truly preferably to good government then I guess places like India and Pakistan got exactly what they wanted. Bad self government.

Also, with respect, I think a lot of American activities in Africa and Latin America throughout the 20th century would have made even some of our worst imperialists blush.