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Please don't kill me. D: 0.13836948391922 13.8% [ 185 ]
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Dapper Phantom

Corrupted Coco
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My 2cents on going "stealth":

I won't argue against going stealth but I don't feel that the quality of my life is "less" because I am out. It's just different than a cisgender man's experience. And well, I just wholly embrace my transsexuality. If I were treated like a cisgender guy I don't think it would feel right. I am a man but I am not an ordinary man. I do not feel I should be treated ordinary. Sometimes that's the exact thing a guy wants but it isn't really what I have ever wanted. And despite my "outness", I have been accepted into many male-only circles, so maybe the fact that I take ease with my transsexuality also makes it easier for others to accept it. I have been living as male for about 3 and a half years, so I am willing to admit that maybe I just haven't been out long enough to get tired of it. But so far I've enjoyed being the advocate, and the "token" trans person of most social circles. I feel confident in my ability to represent myself as a comfortable member of the community. And I also don't mind the constant questions. I can sometimes be annoyed by misunderstandings, but people will have misunderstandings about you whether you're trans or not. I'm glad it's over my gender identity and not other more personal aspects of my personality. I think my only real annoyance with being "out" is that I am KNOWN as a trans person, and not much else. But that is also true for the guy who is known as someone's "black friend" or "you know, the gay one". People are always going to be categorized and I would rather it be something true about myself... I suppose it's just a little annoying that even BEFORE people meet me, I am outed, but no one really cares much about say, my art or other things that I do, because the most interesting thing about me apparently is that I am transsexual. However, I am humble enough to admit that yes, my oddity is very interesting. Probably more interesting than anything I could ever come up with.

It is on that note that I know many people do not wish to be interesting, and want to go about very mundane, bland, rather uninteresting lives, because that is safe. I can understand that value of personal safety, and have respect for it. I suppose I like to live life "on the edge" in a social sense, even if that puts me in danger of being ostracized or even assaulted. Not everyone has the "calling" to be an advocate or a public figure. Not everyone has the desire to stand up for others because they are hardly maintaining themselves. That doesn't necessarily make them weaker; they're just not cut out to be a public advocate, and a person should not feel that they are entitled to do so just because they are a member of a very small minority.

However, I do have only one issue with some "stealthers". It is when they start to blatantly deny ever being transsexual. That they have transitioned, therefore their past is irrelevant, and they are "no longer transsexual". We will forever be transsexual, because part of being transsexual is including our transsexual history. That history makes us different than any cisgender man, because we have this unique set of experiences, and unique anatomy. Even after a full sex change, it is never quite "right". And even if it was, we would still have female DNA, and the memories of having a female form. It is with that knowledge that we are transsexuals. It is not an inferiority-- quite contrary, actually. It gives us an advantage in understanding women that cisgender men will never have. Even as a gay man, I deeply value this asset, and this unique connection with women, that other men do not get to have.

It is on those grounds that I refuse to EVER deny being transsexual when asked or "accused" of being such. I always just say yes like it's no different than asking if my name is Dan or if my eyes are green. It's as plain as any other portion of my identity. As interesting as transsexuality is, it really isn't all that extraordinary. The extraordinary part is the incredible journey and transformation we must all go through.

To clarify, I understand being "stealth" in the professional world. Many times it is necessary and I am almost always at least partially stealth in most work situations (i.e. only my bosses or a few people know usually). This is more just so that my transsexuality is not a distracting thing to my coworkers/peers. I was also stealth in college for those same reasons.

I don't tell people who don't already know. Why should I? The only result is that it will inherently change the way they look at me. There's always going to be a point where cisgendered people just will not understand, and honestly I don't see how that should be my problem. Being transsexual is a medical condition, and that makes it none of anyone else's business. I wouldn't tell a random acquaintance that I was transsexual just because they asked any more than I would with any other serious and personal medical condition. I'm not just a transsexual, and I'd rather not be judged as purely such. I'm a woman and I expect to be treated that way.
This isn't really being "stealth". I am "out" but I don't tell ever single person I meet, "Hi, I'm transsexual". That's not being stealth, that's just not oversharing. I also said I understand being "stealth" in the work world. It's different, and generally does not require one DENYING that they are transsexual (because the work environment is too PC to bring it up even if it's obvious).

I feel it is deception to conceal the condition. Obviously our opinions differ. If I had diabetes I wouldn't lie about it, saying "It's none of their business". I do not understand the emotional charge behind transsexualism or the need to hide it.

Not many have ever had issues treating me like a man. Only few oppose it. People are aware that I am a man with a birth defect. I am not treated like a woman or anything else. Though at the same time I do not mind being treated like an "it". I guess that may offend a lot of trans people, but I am at peace with it. And I do not feel it makes me "less of a man" to have others judge me. I can take it.

Dapper Phantom

NightVine200
Hitch Slap
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Song of the Century
So I'm going to live as a girl for at least my first year of college. Unfortunate, but I have no idea how to get anywhere at this point. At least I'll have a roommate that I'm close friends with, and she's completely supportive. Maybe I'll get over my anxiety and check out an LGBT group there. Maybe she'll force me to, lol.

Have you contacted your college about this yet? I found that when I started college this year, they've been nothing but helpful in getting me settled in (even if there are legal boundaries they have to keep to, being pre-T.)

Having a safe haven with your roommate is a great start, it gets immensely tiring to socialize with new people and wonder how you're perceived.
What "laws" does T effect? I can't be with guys OR girls now because I'm not really male OR female. Basically I am "banned" from a lot of places (like dorms) because there is no place to put someone who is legally female but not biologically female.

I'd need to be on T to get my sex marker changed, so while I changed the name I use in daily life, there's still an F on the list when they do role-call. smile

I recognize that part. :/ I screwed my class out of introduction camp because I said I wasn't comfortable with sleeping in the guy-dorm yet, seeing as at the time it would be my first time interacting with people after a year or being crippled by panic and anxiety disorders and it seemed a bit too much to handle. It was a possibility, though. Could very well be the rules change from country to country and school to school, I'm from Holland.
My sex was never listed on "role-call"... just my legal name. I explained to all of my college professors ahead of time that I prefer my male name and male pronouns and no one objected. Taking T isn't required to change the gender marker here-- just a therapist's note-- but I am waiting on that because I can't afford it and because I want to marry a man and the only way to do so is with my female gender marker because gay marriage is still banned here. I will probably keep that gender marker until gay marriage is legal to protect my marriage. It's getting really close since California is taking it to the Supreme Court and based on the 9th Circuit judgment I'm pretty sure we will win this time, and it may become federal law.

I am sure Holland is very different. The gender on the role-call sheet could be a Holland thing. I am in the United States.

Dapper Humorist

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I found it was easier for me to come out and start anew first year, but do whatever you feel most comfortable with. Also, invest in a binder, I only have one atm and it's been great for about 6 months now, I wash it on weekends when no one will see me. smile

I definitely will get binders in college. Can't while with my parents.

sad That sucks. Be careful with ace bandages and get a binder as soon as you can!

I'm considering ordering a set of three for about $90 from Amazon. Absolutely no plans to use Ace bandages. If I can't find a way to pay without my parents knowing, I'll have a friend who can order it for me, and I can just give her the cash.

If you're from the US, Underworks has some good prices on stuff. I assume the ones from Amazon would be second hand, depending on the model you could get 3 new ones for maybe 10 bucks more. http://ftm.underworks.com/

Dapper Humorist

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So I'm going to live as a girl for at least my first year of college. Unfortunate, but I have no idea how to get anywhere at this point. At least I'll have a roommate that I'm close friends with, and she's completely supportive. Maybe I'll get over my anxiety and check out an LGBT group there. Maybe she'll force me to, lol.

Have you contacted your college about this yet? I found that when I started college this year, they've been nothing but helpful in getting me settled in (even if there are legal boundaries they have to keep to, being pre-T.)

Having a safe haven with your roommate is a great start, it gets immensely tiring to socialize with new people and wonder how you're perceived.
What "laws" does T effect? I can't be with guys OR girls now because I'm not really male OR female. Basically I am "banned" from a lot of places (like dorms) because there is no place to put someone who is legally female but not biologically female.

I'd need to be on T to get my sex marker changed, so while I changed the name I use in daily life, there's still an F on the list when they do role-call. smile

I recognize that part. :/ I screwed my class out of introduction camp because I said I wasn't comfortable with sleeping in the guy-dorm yet, seeing as at the time it would be my first time interacting with people after a year or being crippled by panic and anxiety disorders and it seemed a bit too much to handle. It was a possibility, though. Could very well be the rules change from country to country and school to school, I'm from Holland.
My sex was never listed on "role-call"... just my legal name. I explained to all of my college professors ahead of time that I prefer my male name and male pronouns and no one objected. Taking T isn't required to change the gender marker here-- just a therapist's note-- but I am waiting on that because I can't afford it and because I want to marry a man and the only way to do so is with my female gender marker because gay marriage is still banned here. I will probably keep that gender marker until gay marriage is legal to protect my marriage. It's getting really close since California is taking it to the Supreme Court and based on the 9th Circuit judgment I'm pretty sure we will win this time, and it may become federal law.

I am sure Holland is very different. The gender on the role-call sheet could be a Holland thing. I am in the United States.

Could be! I'm already glad the list doesn't have my legal name on it, but I do get she'd by teachers from time to time (which results in hilarity, since I'm stealth and all my classmates end up simultaneously correcting the teacher. It's happened a few times already.)
Hitch Slap
Though at the same time I do not mind being treated like an "it". I guess that may offend a lot of trans people, but I am at peace with it. And I do not feel it makes me "less of a man" to have others judge me. I can take it.

And that's exactly your problem.

Dapper Dabbler

NightVine200
If you're from the US, Underworks has some good prices on stuff. I assume the ones from Amazon would be second hand, depending on the model you could get 3 new ones for maybe 10 bucks more. http://ftm.underworks.com/

I was looking on Amazon at a three-pack sold from Underworks, but doing another search specifically for the 997 model, they've got three-packs for $55. I would not get second-hand binders through Amazon, ever.

I'm familiar with recommended brands; I've been in this thread for years, and I'm used to what people suggest.

Dapper Humorist

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If you're from the US, Underworks has some good prices on stuff. I assume the ones from Amazon would be second hand, depending on the model you could get 3 new ones for maybe 10 bucks more. http://ftm.underworks.com/

I was looking on Amazon at a three-pack sold from Underworks, but doing another search specifically for the 997 model, they've got three-packs for $55. I would not get second-hand binders through Amazon, ever.

I'm familiar with recommended brands; I've been in this thread for years, and I'm used to what people suggest.

I'm only just lurking, hah. The 3 for 55 seems like a great deal, I'm looking into Underworks myself, as my Danae (Dutch brand) binder is just a tad too wide and those cost 50 euro a piece. :/ Import is always a b***h though.

Dapper Phantom

Corrupted Coco
Hitch Slap
Though at the same time I do not mind being treated like an "it". I guess that may offend a lot of trans people, but I am at peace with it. And I do not feel it makes me "less of a man" to have others judge me. I can take it.

And that's exactly your problem.
Lol, how is it a problem? I am not cissexist nor do I deeply value the binary. I do not have a strong desire to be a part of the "normal" people. I am a transcendent being, superior to their locked experience.
I am not transgender, but I thought I'd join into this topic anyway.

Just want to let you all know you have my support.

As stated, I am not transgender.. I am more like... Gender Neutral. My views on gender and sexuality probably differs from most of you, but not in a bashing way of course.

But anyway, y'all have my support.
Dyskoteka
I am not transgender, but I thought I'd join into this topic anyway.

Just want to let you all know you have my support.

As stated, I am not transgender.. I am more like... Gender Neutral. My views on gender and sexuality probably differs from most of you, but not in a bashing way of course.

But anyway, y'all have my support.


Gender neutral is part of the gender diversity bundle. It's more than just trans*men and trans*women.

There's a lot of us who are gender neutral, gender questioning, bigender, agender etc etc.

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Corrupted Coco
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Though at the same time I do not mind being treated like an "it". I guess that may offend a lot of trans people, but I am at peace with it. And I do not feel it makes me "less of a man" to have others judge me. I can take it.

And that's exactly your problem.
Lol, how is it a problem? I am not cissexist nor do I deeply value the binary. I do not have a strong desire to be a part of the "normal" people. I am a transcendent being, superior to their locked experience.


I know it's rude of me to just pop in like this, but I couldn't help it when I saw this post. (Yes, I'm still around, I just rarely post nowadays.)

Okay, I'm an androgynous non-binary person in most respects. However, I would object to being referred to as an "it" not because it defines me as non-binary, but because it defines me as an object. I am not an object and neither are you. We are human beings, and at least for the sake of grammar shouldn't be referred to as objects.

It is the absolute height of sickening arrogance for you to declare yourself superior to their "locked experience." Being non-binary does not mean you're BETTER than someone who is.
surprised Gavin! How are you doing? I haven't seen you in awhile.

Dapper Phantom

The Viscount
Hitch Slap
Corrupted Coco
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Though at the same time I do not mind being treated like an "it". I guess that may offend a lot of trans people, but I am at peace with it. And I do not feel it makes me "less of a man" to have others judge me. I can take it.

And that's exactly your problem.
Lol, how is it a problem? I am not cissexist nor do I deeply value the binary. I do not have a strong desire to be a part of the "normal" people. I am a transcendent being, superior to their locked experience.


I know it's rude of me to just pop in like this, but I couldn't help it when I saw this post. (Yes, I'm still around, I just rarely post nowadays.)

Okay, I'm an androgynous non-binary person in most respects. However, I would object to being referred to as an "it" not because it defines me as non-binary, but because it defines me as an object. I am not an object and neither are you. We are human beings, and at least for the sake of grammar shouldn't be referred to as objects.

It is the absolute height of sickening arrogance for you to declare yourself superior to their "locked experience." Being non-binary does not mean you're BETTER than someone who is.
I believe you have misunderstood my position. I do not tolerate being CALLED "it". However, I do not mind being addressed like I am some sort of third gender. I only accept male pronouns. But so does Kermit the Frog, even though he is a puppet, and technically an "it" with a masculine gender.

I never said that I am superior for being non-binary. I am actually technically binary, being a member of the male gender, I just don't MIND being addressed as a "neutral" gender of sorts, but still only accept male pronouns. I am referring to the "treatment". I still desire the same legal rights and legal treatment as any other man, but I do not need society to treat me like a "cisgender man" to feel validate or affirmed in my male identity. I don't mind being known as transsexual and being out as trans because I feel trans men deserve the same exact respect as "real" men (note the quotes-- I hate that usage, but hat is the distinction that people who discriminate would make). If we are all in the closet, we are not demanding that trans men are given that same respect-- they just all end up hiding among cis men and the ones who are out are still ostracized. My original post was about being "out", and separate from cisgender, not separate from binary. There is clearly some confusion going on here.

I would also in response to your comment say that is a sickening distortion of my words. It is my opinion (and you may not like it or even find it offensive) that transsexuals possess superior knowledge that most cisgender people simply do not have access to. I said MOST. Some cisgender people seriously do their research and they attain that same knowledge, albeit not through the transsexual experience. Most cisgender persons never even attempt to attain this knowledge, and even though that do will never literally and personally know the experience. The best they can do is closely observe a friend or loved one going through the process. I do indeed feel that my enlightened experience is superior to a closed, ignorant set of experiences, and that I possess special knowledge that most cisgender people will never have access to. That is the "superiority"; not that I am a "better person" or anything like that. I simply feel I have an advantage that it takes a great deal of effort for any cisgender person to obtain. I am also aware that many trans people transition without really absorbing this sort of knowledge from their experience because it is not important to their path, and I do not consider them "inferior" to me as people, though they do possess "inferior" knowledge in that area. It appears I have used a "triggering" word in this thread that I should not have used, and will avoid using it if I ever do post in the future.
Sigh.

You may have knowledge, but wisdom? Not so much.

Dapper Phantom

Sanala
Sigh.

You may have knowledge, but wisdom? Not so much.
You don't like me but that doesn't make me unwise.

I'm leaving this thread. I will not let people talk trash to me over something like this. You can disagree with my views but the insults are uncalled for. I know it doesn't bother anyone since I wasn't a regular or anything anyway, but you are unwelcoming to views different than your own. That is not a good thing to do in a thread like this. It could push away people who need help but have views you don't like.

Also, I don't want to have an argument about this. I think we've made both of our sides fairly clear.

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