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Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.
Kaworu 17
Europe had the French Revolution, North America didn't. After that there was no turning back.

Europe had the French Revolution? And didn't their revolution occur after our revolutionary war? Didn't our revolutionary war make monarchs nervous?
scacchic
other highly developed countries? I don't think it's because of the Puritans. Europe used to be very devout around the same time, but they've become lax. Why hasn't the U.S?

Please don't quote the OP. smile


Which part of Europe are we talking about here exactly. Parts of Europe are much more religious than the US. Poland, Romania, and Russia. Some are on par, like Italy, Ireland, Greece, Cyprus etc.

And even then it depends largely on where in the US we're talking as well. New England has much more in common with Northwest Europe (the Europe you're calling all of Europe) spiritually than the South for instance.
This is all rather in flux as well, America is very quickly secularizing to the point that we'll probably be more secular than the likes of France in a generation. Let alone the likes of Greece or Poland.
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


That's very much the norm in large parts of the US, the coastal regions and cities where increasingly most of the population lives. As well as the younger Americans.

It's a distortion to soley characterize the US by it's interior, rural, and Southeast cultures where you would have a point perhaps.

Only one of those two is on the rise, and it's not the latter.

Europe does have far far greater issues with integration of varying cultures quite apart from a religious debate. Denying this is very much delusional indeed. The US and Canada have long histories of playing host to huge scale immigration from all over the world, Europe is only just starting this, in the context of their existence as nation states which makes it even more difficuilt (something the US and Canada don't have to worry about as non-nation states).
scacchic
Kaworu 17
Europe had the French Revolution, North America didn't. After that there was no turning back.

Europe had the French Revolution? And didn't their revolution occur after our revolutionary war? Didn't our revolutionary war make monarchs nervous?
The French Revolution made any religious institution nervous.
Leek Joyowza
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


That's very much the norm in large parts of the US, the coastal regions and cities where increasingly most of the population lives. As well as the younger Americans.

It's a distortion to soley characterize the US by it's interior, rural, and Southeast cultures where you would have a point perhaps.

Only one of those two is on the rise, and it's not the latter.

Europe does have far far greater issues with integration of varying cultures quite apart from a religious debate. Denying this is very much delusional indeed. The US and Canada have long histories of playing host to huge scale immigration from all over the world, Europe is only just starting this, in the context of their existence as nation states which makes it even more difficuilt (something the US and Canada don't have to worry about as non-nation states).

Do we have any openly atheist or agnostic people in high ranking positions in government?
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


And why do you say that? Different people are open to different things. I have friends and family that believe in all sorts of things and have come across some people in America who are open to different beliefs and some who are not. Most I have come across are. This has nothing to do with propaganda. Based on laws and social norms in other countries, I would say we are a bit more open-minded in comparison. It doesn't mean everyone is. I'm just speaking from experience and what I know, not what some stupid media outlet told me.
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Yeah, I was referring to a lack of a social or political acceptance rather than it being illegal or something.
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


And why do you say that? Different people are open to different things. I have friends and family that believe in all sorts of things and have come across some people in America who are open to different beliefs and some who are not. Most I have come across are. This has nothing to do with propaganda. Based on laws and social norms in other countries, I would say we are a bit more open-minded in comparison. It doesn't mean everyone is. I'm just speaking from experience and what I know, not what some stupid media outlet told me.

So you're saying atheists and agnostics are equally accepted as much as religious people, especially Christians? Then why aren't there any openly non-religious people in high ranking positions in government? Also, in at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Quote:
In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials.
scacchic
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Yeah, I was referring to a lack of a social or political acceptance rather than it being illegal or something.


Well Atheists are usually small in number. In a political sense, getting elected usually requires coalition building.

It is hard for an Atheist to go to a religious constituency and say "Hey I know I pretty much think your beliefs are stupid and your stupid.... but vote for me?"

There is also the issue of block voting. In the United States devout believers usually form voting blocks, where as Atheists are somewhat split between hard right libertarian, ayn randists, and anarchists of various sorts, and many degrees of ardent leftist.

Social acceptance is difficult because it is hard to go to your family and literally reject the most core cultural beliefs that go back to time immemorial. I mean its like telling your grandmother that her deepest convictions are things you think are dumb made up fairy tales and expecting her to react positively to that.
scacchic
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Quote:
In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials.


Yes, there are many defunct aspects of state constitutions. One state still bares interracial marriage and I think a few states still mention slaves.
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Yeah, I was referring to a lack of a social or political acceptance rather than it being illegal or something.


Well Atheists are usually small in number. In a political sense, getting elected usually requires coalition building.

It is hard for an Atheist to go to a religious constituency and say "Hey I know I pretty much think your beliefs are stupid and your stupid.... but vote for me?"

There is also the issue of block voting. In the United States devout believers usually form voting blocks, where as Atheists are somewhat split between hard right libertarian, ayn randists, and anarchists of various sorts, and many degrees of ardent leftist.

Social acceptance is difficult because it is hard to go to your family and literally reject the most core cultural beliefs that go back to time immemorial. I mean its like telling your grandmother that her deepest convictions are things you think are dumb made up fairy tales and expecting her to react positively to that.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you think theists are stupid anymore than a Jewish person thinks Christians are stupid just because they have different beliefs.
scacchic
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Jessi Danger
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Yeah, I was referring to a lack of a social or political acceptance rather than it being illegal or something.


Well Atheists are usually small in number. In a political sense, getting elected usually requires coalition building.

It is hard for an Atheist to go to a religious constituency and say "Hey I know I pretty much think your beliefs are stupid and your stupid.... but vote for me?"

There is also the issue of block voting. In the United States devout believers usually form voting blocks, where as Atheists are somewhat split between hard right libertarian, ayn randists, and anarchists of various sorts, and many degrees of ardent leftist.

Social acceptance is difficult because it is hard to go to your family and literally reject the most core cultural beliefs that go back to time immemorial. I mean its like telling your grandmother that her deepest convictions are things you think are dumb made up fairy tales and expecting her to react positively to that.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you think theists are stupid anymore than a Jewish person thinks Christians are stupid just because they have different beliefs.


Possibly but that is sometimes how it will be interpreted. As 2000 years of Christian Jewish relations will testify to, even one isn't overtly hostile, you are still basically saying someone is wrong rather indirectly but still saying it.

By being an Atheist you are however tacitly, admitting you believe theists are fundamentally wrong. And any theist will know that is part of your core understanding of the world.

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