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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?
[Snide]

They said Christians don't support social justice.

Who the ******** do they think Christ was, Ronald Reagan?
Prince Ikari 's avatar

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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?

Which is probably the reason that Catholicism is declining in the United States as well. Most Christians regardless of faith are pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways, so no need delving into the politics. Focus on the Lord and what the Bible says. In my view the Bible is expressly pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways so it takes care of itself there.

Well when the first Congress convened, the first measure was to allow for a minister to lead the Congress in prayer, and read from the Bible. The Declaration of Independence explicitly states that we have rights from our Creator that no one could ever take from us. At the end of the Constitution, it refers to the year of our Lord. The Supreme Court has upheld that we are a Christian nation before. Every president we have had has been Christian and championed Judeo-Christian values (with the exception of Obama). FDR even led the country in a six minute prayer before we invaded Normandy in I believe 1944. "In God We Trust" is on all of our money, and is etched into the actual Capitol. I believe it says it behind the Speaker in the House of Reps chamber, and I also believe it is etched on the Washington Monument. At one point in time we had prayer in our schools. Both President's Eisenhower and Ford said that our country could not exists without God, and that it is the first expression of Americanism.
Prince Ikari
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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?

Which is probably the reason that Catholicism is declining in the United States as well. Most Christians regardless of faith are pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways, so no need delving into the politics. Focus on the Lord and what the Bible says. In my view the Bible is expressly pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways so it takes care of itself there.

Well when the first Congress convened, the first measure was to allow for a minister to lead the Congress in prayer, and read from the Bible. The Declaration of Independence explicitly states that we have rights from our Creator that no one could ever take from us. At the end of the Constitution, it refers to the year of our Lord. The Supreme Court has upheld that we are a Christian nation before. Every president we have had has been Christian and championed Judeo-Christian values (with the exception of Obama). FDR even led the country in a six minute prayer before we invaded Normandy in I believe 1944. "In God We Trust" is on all of our money, and is etched into the actual Capitol. I believe it says it behind the Speaker in the House of Reps chamber, and I also believe it is etched on the Washington Monument. At one point in time we had prayer in our schools. Both President's Eisenhower and Ford said that our country could not exists without God, and that it is the first expression of Americanism.
From the Treaty of Tripoli:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaties are ratified by the Senate (this one was passed unanimously) and as such are American law. If the Supreme Court does not challenge it, and it hasn't, then Constitutionally the US is not a Christian nation.
Prince Ikari
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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari


Well when the first Congress convened, the first measure was to allow for a minister to lead the Congress in prayer, and read from the Bible. The Declaration of Independence explicitly states that we have rights from our Creator that no one could ever take from us. At the end of the Constitution, it refers to the year of our Lord. The Supreme Court has upheld that we are a Christian nation before. Every president we have had has been Christian and championed Judeo-Christian values (with the exception of Obama). FDR even led the country in a six minute prayer before we invaded Normandy in I believe 1944. "In God We Trust" is on all of our money, and is etched into the actual Capitol. I believe it says it behind the Speaker in the House of Reps chamber, and I also believe it is etched on the Washington Monument. At one point in time we had prayer in our schools. Both President's Eisenhower and Ford said that our country could not exists without God, and that it is the first expression of Americanism.

Yes our documents make references to God, but that's not a Christian value. As for the belief that God gave us rights that can't be taken away, I don't think that's specifically a Christian value. It seems to be a Western value. We put "In God We Trust" on our money in the 50s to combat atheism in the USSR so that isn't a founding principle either.
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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?
[Snide]

They said Christians don't support social justice.

Who the ******** do they think Christ was, Ronald Reagan?


Pretty much this is who they think Christ was

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Hard to say really.

I always felt it has come down to a couple of main reasons;

1.) The US has not really had a bad experience with religion.

What I mean by the above is that, unlike alot of European countries, the US can't really claim as part of its cultural history stuff like indulgences or the Catholic Empire. To be sure, our Founding Fathers had experiences like that, but the US's people really haven't.

2.) The US was founded in large part based on religious freedoms.

Most of Europe was the product of people. The first European colonies were founded on the pursuit of religious freedom, and so it would be kind of odd to think the US, which is still really young compared to alot of European nations, would be anti-religion.

3.) Churches in the US served many more functions than just places of worship.

Necessity is the mother of invention, and in the US, pretty much since the US was founded, churches were alot more than places to pray like they were in old Europe. Churches were the sources of the first welfare programs, they were where important town meetings and events were held, and people often met their future husbands and wives through the church.
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Well if you look at the history of America, the country was based on Christian values and a Christian community. England and much of Europe were various sects of Catholic and refused to let Christians practice their faith the way they wanted to. Many Christians then fled to America for the right to practice their religion. If you look at the mind set of America today though, much of the country is not Christian. The attitudes of many people (especially youth) is incredibly negative towards any religion. Perhaps its just a lack for respect of other peoples rights though. Most of media finds ways to mock Christians specifically. Most high schools are places where the topic of religion should be avoided. Suddenly it has become that if some one does agree they can't simply state it. They lash out to people whos opinions dont match their own.
Back on topic though. Europe has become less strict in their strong Catholic background. There are still many that claim to be Catholic or Christian but dont attend church or really believe anything. There were places and times where their belief systems became corrupted though (because the Pope or Priests have more control over the people, than traditional pastors have over people in the Christian faith) so it caused many people to loose faith.

Just my opinion from what I've personally seen over time... sweatdrop
Because Europe found a great way to get ride of all its religious nuts. They let them colonize America.
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xXBlackRose954Xx
Well if you look at the history of America, the country was based on Christian values and a Christian community. England and much of Europe were various sects of Catholic and refused to let Christians practice their faith the way they wanted to.


For one, Catholic IS Christian.

For second, the Puritans were the most beligerant, miserable, people to ever make a society suffer them. When even the DUTCH don't want to put up with you, you're bad news culturally.

For third, they sure as hell didn't extend the liberty of religious practice to anyone else in the new world. Not attending church was a jailable offense.

Quote:
If you look at the mind set of America today though, much of the country is not Christian.
Th

Ain't Freedom of Religion and pluaralism a b***h?

Quote:
The attitudes of many people (especially youth) is incredibly negative towards any religion.


You think it's all for no reason?

Quote:
Perhaps its just a lack for respect of other peoples rights though.


Religion isn't exactly respectful of other's rights. "Thou shalt have no Other Gods Before Me", remember?

Quote:
Just my opinion from what I've personally seen over time... sweatdrop


Toots, I'll pit my life experience up against yours any old day you want.
from blue to's avatar

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America's just a little slow. We'll catch up eventually.

And, just for the hell of it, we'll make more noise about it when we get there.
from blue to
America's just a little slow. We'll catch up eventually.

And, just for the hell of it, we'll make more noise about it when we get there.

And then we should say we invented it. And kill people who then suddenly become more backwards than us.
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Other counties are religious...unofficially. For example...in China I bet you over half of that entire population is religious in someway. All the people that aren't religious have a connection with their government.

Officially these counties announce themselves non religious because it is easier to control people. Counties say one thing and the the other ALL the time.

Another example... France is above America in education and literacy in schools and universities. However (depending on the areas)... this is because once a student fails to maintain a certain grade before college, they will be taken out of the school system. In some cases completely denied further education.

There is no system that is corrupt. There is only corruption.
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Well if you look at the history of America, the country was based on Christian values and a Christian community. England and much of Europe were various sects of Catholic and refused to let Christians practice their faith the way they wanted to.


For one, Catholic IS Christian.

For second, the Puritans were the most beligerant, miserable, people to ever make a society suffer them. When even the DUTCH don't want to put up with you, you're bad news culturally.

For third, they sure as hell didn't extend the liberty of religious practice to anyone else in the new world. Not attending church was a jailable offense.

Quote:
If you look at the mind set of America today though, much of the country is not Christian.
Th

Ain't Freedom of Religion and pluaralism a b***h?

Quote:
The attitudes of many people (especially youth) is incredibly negative towards any religion.


You think it's all for no reason?

Quote:
Perhaps its just a lack for respect of other peoples rights though.


Religion isn't exactly respectful of other's rights. "Thou shalt have no Other Gods Before Me", remember?

Quote:
Just my opinion from what I've personally seen over time... sweatdrop


Toots, I'll pit my life experience up against yours any old day you want.

Every single country/civilization built themselves up with morals and religion. This is what were the building blocks for what was wrong and right.

I would like to see a group of atheists/nonreligious try to start their own civilization and government...oh wait...we already did see that. Hitler didn't do so very well.
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The Living Force
Prince Ikari
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Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?

Which is probably the reason that Catholicism is declining in the United States as well. Most Christians regardless of faith are pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways, so no need delving into the politics. Focus on the Lord and what the Bible says. In my view the Bible is expressly pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways so it takes care of itself there.

Well when the first Congress convened, the first measure was to allow for a minister to lead the Congress in prayer, and read from the Bible. The Declaration of Independence explicitly states that we have rights from our Creator that no one could ever take from us. At the end of the Constitution, it refers to the year of our Lord. The Supreme Court has upheld that we are a Christian nation before. Every president we have had has been Christian and championed Judeo-Christian values (with the exception of Obama). FDR even led the country in a six minute prayer before we invaded Normandy in I believe 1944. "In God We Trust" is on all of our money, and is etched into the actual Capitol. I believe it says it behind the Speaker in the House of Reps chamber, and I also believe it is etched on the Washington Monument. At one point in time we had prayer in our schools. Both President's Eisenhower and Ford said that our country could not exists without God, and that it is the first expression of Americanism.
From the Treaty of Tripoli:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaties are ratified by the Senate (this one was passed unanimously) and as such are American law. If the Supreme Court does not challenge it, and it hasn't, then Constitutionally the US is not a Christian nation.

They said this so that everyone had the freedom to practice what they wanted. No one had the freedom to have it out of sight or out of mind...or to have other people argue with you or bother you.
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GunsmithKitten
xXBlackRose954Xx
Well if you look at the history of America, the country was based on Christian values and a Christian community. England and much of Europe were various sects of Catholic and refused to let Christians practice their faith the way they wanted to.


For one, Catholic IS Christian.

For second, the Puritans were the most beligerant, miserable, people to ever make a society suffer them. When even the DUTCH don't want to put up with you, you're bad news culturally.

For third, they sure as hell didn't extend the liberty of religious practice to anyone else in the new world. Not attending church was a jailable offense.

Quote:
If you look at the mind set of America today though, much of the country is not Christian.
Th

Ain't Freedom of Religion and pluaralism a b***h?

Quote:
The attitudes of many people (especially youth) is incredibly negative towards any religion.


You think it's all for no reason?

Quote:
Perhaps its just a lack for respect of other peoples rights though.


Religion isn't exactly respectful of other's rights. "Thou shalt have no Other Gods Before Me", remember?

Quote:
Just my opinion from what I've personally seen over time... sweatdrop


Toots, I'll pit my life experience up against yours any old day you want.


Yes, Catholics are Christians but if you understood what I said you would realize I was refering to Nondenominational Chrisitians. Generally when people refer to some one as just "Christian" its nondenominational or a smaller denomination such as baptist of conservative etc. that is very similar rather than the contrast of Catholics having saints and nondenominational not at all.

Though the liberty of not going to church was not allowed, different denominations were. Not everyone had to be Catholic, there were much more veriety allowed. Eventually Mormons, Amish, and many other denominations of Christian came about and were respected and allowed in the new world. It may have not been complete liberty, but it was a hell lot of a more than they got in Europe and began a step in the right direction.

Im simply stating facts that indeed less people in America are not Christian anymore. You think thats wrong of me? People view religion negatively because they dont have the common sense to seperate one persons actions from a group of people. People shouldn't not like one religion just because they dont belong to it. As long as the religion its self isnt hurting anyone (sheik for example have a policy of hurting people) they should respect that.

A commandment is not disrespectful. That is to the people who belong to the faith. The religion did not come out of the sky and tell you (or anyone else) youre a bad person for having a different God. The ten commandments for example are rules and guidlines Christians are supposed to fallow. People can choose to live by those values or not. Either way, every human should respect other humans rights and opinions. I understand many participants in religion do not always respect people outside of it, but that is not what should determine peoples attitude towards religion. People within a religion should understand that people outside of the religion dont hold the same values and will do things they consider wrong, but it isnt wrong. Likewise, people with no religion or a different religion should respect others right to belive in whatever they want and live by what values they want. wink

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