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x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
Prince Ikari
scacchic
Prince Ikari
People attend churches, become followers of religion to be closer with God, and learn the text and understand His teachings. They do not go to hear someone lecture why it is Christian to promote social justice and champion gay marriage, things most Christians do not support anyways. People want true religion, and it is impossible to have when the state runs the churches and in a way sets the agenda.

As a person who was raised Catholic, politics was intertwined. Every Sunday the priest would talk about abortion and sometimes gay marriage in his homily. They would literally urge us to vote for the pro-life, anti-gay marriage political party.


Prince Ikari
And the United States as we known was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

Like what?

Which is probably the reason that Catholicism is declining in the United States as well. Most Christians regardless of faith are pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways, so no need delving into the politics. Focus on the Lord and what the Bible says. In my view the Bible is expressly pro-life and anti-gay marriage anyways so it takes care of itself there.

Well when the first Congress convened, the first measure was to allow for a minister to lead the Congress in prayer, and read from the Bible. The Declaration of Independence explicitly states that we have rights from our Creator that no one could ever take from us. At the end of the Constitution, it refers to the year of our Lord. The Supreme Court has upheld that we are a Christian nation before. Every president we have had has been Christian and championed Judeo-Christian values (with the exception of Obama). FDR even led the country in a six minute prayer before we invaded Normandy in I believe 1944. "In God We Trust" is on all of our money, and is etched into the actual Capitol. I believe it says it behind the Speaker in the House of Reps chamber, and I also believe it is etched on the Washington Monument. At one point in time we had prayer in our schools. Both President's Eisenhower and Ford said that our country could not exists without God, and that it is the first expression of Americanism.
From the Treaty of Tripoli:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaties are ratified by the Senate (this one was passed unanimously) and as such are American law. If the Supreme Court does not challenge it, and it hasn't, then Constitutionally the US is not a Christian nation.

They said this so that everyone had the freedom to practice what they wanted. No one had the freedom to have it out of sight or out of mind...or to have other people argue with you or bother you.
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.
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The Living Force
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.


No, it shouldn't be completely out of the government.

I think the United States of America is unique in that it tries to keep a balance...with the conflict theory if you will.

If there was no candidate that held some christian/some religious belief... the people who are religious will have no one to represent them.

If are are atheist...and live in America... How would you feel if not one president/person in government wasn't allowed to hold atheist beliefs? Not fair is it? Well...don't do that to the religious people then.

The foundered made it so that the people can have the control they want; however, what will happen if the people take away that power from themselves?
War, Americans haven't faced the horrors of the first World War and second World War, the same way the Europeans have.

Religiousness really started to die in Europe after the first world war. Generally the first world war is considered to have been brutal enough, shocking enough and pointless enough to convince many Europeans that there isn't a God, or isn't one worth praying to. More over Europe has been a land with way more random cruelty that you could say just broke the faith of the Europeans.

America is a land that can be seen as truly blessed. Its safe, secure and bountiful, just as the highly religious pilgrims claim it would be.
Young King under Heaven's avatar

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Well, we have a religious background; you know, pilgrims, Puritans, etc. I know thaat the people of this form may be inclined to see our religious nature as a bad thing, but I see it as a good thing. Also, I do get tired of the U.S vs Europe comparison. Europe is not the beacon by which the world is led; why should we follow them?
Young King under Heaven's avatar

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Well, we have a religious background; you know, pilgrims, Puritans, etc. I know thaat the people of this form may be inclined to see our religious nature as a bad thing, but I see it as a good thing. Also, I do get tired of the U.S vs Europe comparison. Europe is not the beacon by which the world is led; why should we follow them?
x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.


No, it shouldn't be completely out of the government.

I think the United States of America is unique in that it tries to keep a balance...with the conflict theory if you will.

If there was no candidate that held some christian/some religious belief... the people who are religious will have no one to represent them.

If are are atheist...and live in America... How would you feel if not one president/person in government wasn't allowed to hold atheist beliefs? Not fair is it? Well...don't do that to the religious people then.

The foundered made it so that the people can have the control they want; however, what will happen if the people take away that power from themselves?
I didn't say that religious people shouldn't be allowed to hold office.

I said that their faiths should be irrelevant.
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

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The Living Force
x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.


No, it shouldn't be completely out of the government.

I think the United States of America is unique in that it tries to keep a balance...with the conflict theory if you will.

If there was no candidate that held some christian/some religious belief... the people who are religious will have no one to represent them.

If are are atheist...and live in America... How would you feel if not one president/person in government wasn't allowed to hold atheist beliefs? Not fair is it? Well...don't do that to the religious people then.

The foundered made it so that the people can have the control they want; however, what will happen if the people take away that power from themselves?
I didn't say that religious people shouldn't be allowed to hold office.

I said that their faiths should be irrelevant.


Um, I'm pretty sure someone else would know what you said, better than you would. xp
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The Living Force
x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.


No, it shouldn't be completely out of the government.

I think the United States of America is unique in that it tries to keep a balance...with the conflict theory if you will.

If there was no candidate that held some christian/some religious belief... the people who are religious will have no one to represent them.

If are are atheist...and live in America... How would you feel if not one president/person in government wasn't allowed to hold atheist beliefs? Not fair is it? Well...don't do that to the religious people then.

The foundered made it so that the people can have the control they want; however, what will happen if the people take away that power from themselves?
I didn't say that religious people shouldn't be allowed to hold office.

I said that their faiths should be irrelevant.

Well then what does "It should be out of sight and mind of the government." mean to you?
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x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
x_DivineDesire_x
The Living Force
It should be out of sight and mind of the government.

The alternative is full representation and that sounds outright impossible.


No, it shouldn't be completely out of the government.

I think the United States of America is unique in that it tries to keep a balance...with the conflict theory if you will.

If there was no candidate that held some christian/some religious belief... the people who are religious will have no one to represent them.

If are are atheist...and live in America... How would you feel if not one president/person in government wasn't allowed to hold atheist beliefs? Not fair is it? Well...don't do that to the religious people then.

The foundered made it so that the people can have the control they want; however, what will happen if the people take away that power from themselves?
I didn't say that religious people shouldn't be allowed to hold office.

I said that their faiths should be irrelevant.

Well then what does "It should be out of sight and mind of the government." mean to you?

Though I am not The Living Force, I'd like to say that to me, that means that the government shouldn't be religiously driven -- politics and religion should be completely separate, and that faith or lack thereof should be irrelevant.
There are probably three reasons why the U.S. has more religious belief - it's hard to tell which is most important.

The main reason is that, as with so many comparisons with Europe, people on both sides of the Atlantic compare the whole of the United States to one or two European countries. This is like comparing New York City to California - it's not a very meaningful comparison, since one is vastly larger than the other in terms of area. So part of the reason that the US is more religious than favored comparison countries like the UK, France, Sweden, and German is that you are comparing the least religious parts of Europe to the entirety of the US. If you compare Sweden to Massachusetts and Romania to Alabama, the numbers are not quite so stilted.

The second reason is that the US provides huge tax subsidies to religious organizations but expects people to choose which religion they will support. This means that American ministers are just as competitive as American car salesmen or personal injury lawyers. In Europe, people pay religious taxes which go to the religion they indicate on their census, so ministers don't lose their jobs if they tell congregations unpleasant truths.

The third reason is that America is much more open to immigration from the third world than Europe is, and most people from the developing world still have traditional religious beliefs. 12.5% of Americans are immigrants, and about 25% of young Americans are immigrants or the children of immigrants. It's more complex to get information for European countries because if a secular Swede emigrates to Norway that counts as "immigration," but it doesn't mean that Norway has more traditional religious superstitions as a result - but maybe 5% of Europeans are immigrants from outside Europe.

tl;dr - America is more diverse than any one European country, America has twice as many immigrants from backwards countries, America's tax system makes ministers into salesmen.
Queen Shining Heaven
Well, we have a religious background; you know, pilgrims, Puritans, etc. I know thaat the people of this form may be inclined to see our religious nature as a bad thing, but I see it as a good thing. Also, I do get tired of the U.S vs Europe comparison. Europe is not the beacon by which the world is led; why should we follow them?

I said Europe and developed countries. But the reason we get compared to Europe so much is because of our cultural and genetic heritage and similarities. It wouldn't really make much sense to compare the U.S. to Africa or Asia in the same way.
GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

x_DivineDesire_x

Every single country/civilization built themselves up with morals and religion. This is what were the building blocks for what was wrong and right.

I would like to see a group of atheists/nonreligious try to start their own civilization and government...oh wait...we already did see that. Hitler didn't do so very well.


Hitler wasn't atheist, and he sure as s**t wasn't non-religious. Don't even try to play that card.

German honor guard regalia had "God With Us" written on it. Real atheistic, eh?
GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

xXBlackRose954Xx


Though the liberty of not going to church was not allowed, different denominations were. Not everyone had to be Catholic, there were much more veriety allowed. Eventually Mormons, Amish, and many other denominations of Christian came about and were respected and allowed in the new world. It may have not been complete liberty, but it was a hell lot of a more than they got in Europe and began a step in the right direction.


Do you want me to start digging up religious laws in Puritan settlements? Do you really? I will, girl. I will curbstomp this idea that the Puritans were celebrators of religious liberty.

Quote:
People shouldn't not like one religion just because they dont belong to it. As long as the religion its self isnt hurting anyone (sheik for example have a policy of hurting people) they should respect that.


Then you best start with the Christians first, because disrespect of other religions is written into their very system.

Quote:
A commandment is not disrespectful. That is to the people who belong to the faith. The religion did not come out of the sky and tell you (or anyone else) youre a bad person for having a different God.


Yea, uh, go read Exodus again, sweetie. God did exactly that according to it.

Quote:
I understand many participants in religion do not always respect people outside of it, but that is not what should determine peoples attitude towards religion.


sorry, but no. I disrespect Christianity precisely because of what it teaches. Individuals are individuals, Christians included, but the system it'self is not. So I owe it no respect of persons.

Quote:
People within a religion should understand that people outside of the religion dont hold the same values and will do things they consider wrong, but it isnt wrong.


Again, if you truly think like that, and if you do that's a good thing, you need to be preaching this to the Christians even more so than the rest of us.
Ask Jappleack's avatar

Greedy Consumer

How do you know they are more religious? Have a link?

Also I imagine I could go and google the differences between our countries to try and establish what would be the a likely candidate for that being true. Assuming it is true. Then try and find a study or theory of psychology or something to more directly test that idea. Then conclude. I dont know enough of the differences between our countries to conclude yet. But a big factor for every country is media.
-Indoctrination.
-Many states do not require that information taught is scientifically or medically correct.
-Access to such information is limited to the elite- those who can pay for it.
-The false belief that "In God We Trust" was a motto created at the time of the separation from Great Britain,
-The false belief that America was founded on the value of religion. *Mass settlement on the continent was fueled by those who were being persecuted for their belief- they were essentially refugees. America was created as an alternative to corruption by the crown.

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