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Jessi Danger
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Jessi Danger
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Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Quote:
In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials.


Yes, there are many defunct aspects of state constitutions. One state still bares interracial marriage and I think a few states still mention slaves.

It's true that they haven't been enforced in a very long time but there's still a stigma socially. Here's another example.
Quote:
Atheism, lack of religious observation and regular church attendance, and the inability to prove one's willingness and capacity to attend to religion with his children, have been used to deny custody to non-religious parents.
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Jessi Danger
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Jessi Danger
scacchic

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


America the government is open to non-religious people. Americans are not necessarily going to be as accepting.

Quote:
In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials.


Yes, there are many defunct aspects of state constitutions. One state still bares interracial marriage and I think a few states still mention slaves.

It's true that they haven't been enforced in a very long time but there's still a stigma socially. Here's another example.
Quote:
Atheism, lack of religious observation and regular church attendance, and the inability to prove one's willingness and capacity to attend to religion with his children, have been used to deny custody to non-religious parents.


Yes, however how many people read their states constitution that closely? Or even the federal constitution that closely?

As for your second quote, without context I can't reasonably discuss the information. I don't know when that case was presented, where, under what laws, and whom was involved.
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


And why do you say that? Different people are open to different things. I have friends and family that believe in all sorts of things and have come across some people in America who are open to different beliefs and some who are not. Most I have come across are. This has nothing to do with propaganda. Based on laws and social norms in other countries, I would say we are a bit more open-minded in comparison. It doesn't mean everyone is. I'm just speaking from experience and what I know, not what some stupid media outlet told me.

So you're saying atheists and agnostics are equally accepted as much as religious people, especially Christians? Then why aren't there any openly non-religious people in high ranking positions in government? Also, in at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials


Interesting, I didn't know about that law. I wonder if anyone has challenged it. I would think that they would win. Also, considering there are not many high government positions and there aren't many atheists compared to other religions, there isn't a lot of chance for the slim probability. Also, since non-religion would be not acknowledging religion or god(s), why would a person need to let everyone know that they don't care about something if they really just don't care about it?
Fermionic
Kaworu 17
Europe had the French Revolution, North America didn't. After that there was no turning back.


Thank goodness that the revolting French were confined only to Europe.
It was too late to stop the spread the secularism, French kissing, French fries, and the plural of ménage à trois.
Avgvsto's avatar

Dapper Reveler

scacchic
Because thats a big stereotype.
Avgvsto
scacchic
Because thats a big stereotype.

What is?
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
Interesting, I didn't know about that law. I wonder if anyone has challenged it. I would think that they would win. Also, considering there are not many high government positions and there aren't many atheists compared to other religions, there isn't a lot of chance for the slim probability. Also, since non-religion would be not acknowledging religion or god(s), why would a person need to let everyone know that they don't care about something if they really just don't care about it?

Atheists, freethinkers, humanists, etc. are one of the most despised minorities in America. I can not find the Gallup poll right now (here's a similar one), but there was a poll that ask the American public to give their opinions on various minority groups. For example, one of the questions was, "For the following group, rate if they are positively or negatively affecting American culture." In just about in each and every question, atheists are ranked as the most hated, Muslims the second and LGBTs the third.

To answer your last question -- we live in a free country where our Constitution allows the Freedom of Religion, right? But atheists are constantly attacked (mostly by the Religious Right) and regarded as the worst of the worst. Wouldn't you think that would get on your nerves after awhile? It's hard not to care when you are being constantly attacked in your own country.
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
scacchic
Initiate_Sacred_Demise
We aren't. In France it is illegal to wear hijabs to public schools. America is very open to religion or non-religion.

America is not open to non-religion, don't spew propaganda you've heard all your life.


And why do you say that? Different people are open to different things. I have friends and family that believe in all sorts of things and have come across some people in America who are open to different beliefs and some who are not. Most I have come across are. This has nothing to do with propaganda. Based on laws and social norms in other countries, I would say we are a bit more open-minded in comparison. It doesn't mean everyone is. I'm just speaking from experience and what I know, not what some stupid media outlet told me.

So you're saying atheists and agnostics are equally accepted as much as religious people, especially Christians? Then why aren't there any openly non-religious people in high ranking positions in government? Also, in at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars atheists from testifying as witnesses at trials


Interesting, I didn't know about that law. I wonder if anyone has challenged it. I would think that they would win. Also, considering there are not many high government positions and there aren't many atheists compared to other religions, there isn't a lot of chance for the slim probability. Also, since non-religion would be not acknowledging religion or god(s), why would a person need to let everyone know that they don't care about something if they really just don't care about it?


The Supreme Court already ruled in the 60's that such laws are unconstitutional and unenforceable. If anyone wanted to contest the law they would only need bring up the case that brought about that ruling.

I personally think it's relative to how long we've had to establish ourselves in comparison to other countries. England established themselves as a unified country in 927, the first American colonies weren't even established till 500 years later and then it was another 300 years until we were an independent country. The rest of the "civilized" world has a thousand years or more on America. We are young. But such extreme religious values have been in decline in the last few decades.
ChiyoSuzaku
I personally think it's relative to how long we've had to establish ourselves in comparison to other countries. England established themselves as a unified country in 927, the first American colonies weren't even established till 500 years later and then it was another 300 years until we were an independent country. The rest of the "civilized" world has a thousand years or more on America. We are young. But such extreme religious values have been in decline in the last few decades.

Eh. I think you are pointing in the wrong direction. A country's age doesn't really have to do with religiosity. The former DDR (East Germany) is one of the least religious places on Earth with a long history of "civilization" with 52% of the population say they are atheist. Australia, which only gained independence in 1900, is younger than the US and is also a lot less religious than America.

Really, I think it boils down to cultural events and geography. Europe's nations were founded upon religion and most had state-sponsored churches. I would assume it cut down on upon diverse religious beliefs, while simultaneously disenfranchising people who did not like the government and religion mixing. The population was limited in its choice of religion and thus religious beliefs did not root themselves well enough to survive the eventual secularization of the country.

Other westernized countries like Japan or Korea already had entrenched religious and spiritual beliefs that competed against introductory new religions.

America? America had the Freedom of Religion and the separation of church and state. Religion could spread and firmly root itself into communities and traditions without much interference from the government. It could become more entrenched and diverse, and if one church ever fell, two more can take its place.
Suicidesoldier#1's avatar

Fanatical Zealot

We like religion.

It's nice.


Unlike Europe we didn't run away everyone who wasn't our religion; the Irish and the British with Catholicism and Protestantismz, the Spanish Catholics inquisition, the Britannia literally forming America from the puritans.

We said "you can be any religion you want; a Quaker, a Muslim, a protestant, a catholic, we don't care!"


And that was that.

Europe is still like "No, your religion is bad unless it's my religion!"


Except now, they're really edgy.

They're like "Our God is so awesome, he doesn't exist; and because of that, we don't have to prove stuff"; not that it makes any sense but. That's how it goes. Right, it's not a religious belief, that's why you specifically believe there's no God, instead of having no beliefs and being agnostic. xp


A true agnostic realizes they don't know.

When someone is definitively saying "BUT THERE IS X MYSTICAL THING!", or not mystical thing, you have a belief formed around the subject. Not that beliefs are bad, but when you're saying "No, my beliefs are actually true, all those other religions are just posers!", well, then it's not like I've heard that before. xp
Brothern
ChiyoSuzaku
I personally think it's relative to how long we've had to establish ourselves in comparison to other countries. England established themselves as a unified country in 927, the first American colonies weren't even established till 500 years later and then it was another 300 years until we were an independent country. The rest of the "civilized" world has a thousand years or more on America. We are young. But such extreme religious values have been in decline in the last few decades.

Eh. I think you are pointing in the wrong direction. A country's age doesn't really have to do with religiosity. The former DDR (East Germany) is one of the least religious places on Earth with a long history of "civilization" with 52% of the population say they are atheist. Australia, which only gained independence in 1900, is younger than the US and is also a lot less religious than America.

Really, I think it boils down to cultural events and geography. Europe's nations were founded upon religion and most had state-sponsored churches. I would assume it cut down on upon diverse religious beliefs, while simultaneously disenfranchising people who did not like the government and religion mixing. The population was limited in its choice of religion and thus religious beliefs did not root themselves well enough to survive the eventual secularization of the country.

Other westernized countries like Japan or Korea already had entrenched religious and spiritual beliefs that competed against introductory new religions.

America? America had the Freedom of Religion and the separation of church and state. Religion could spread and firmly root itself into communities and traditions without much interference from the government. It could become more entrenched and diverse, and if one church ever fell, two more can take its place.


I wasn't trying to say that an older country will necessarily be more or less religious, but in the case of the United States, we are becoming less religious. In 1984, 92% of Americans identified as Christian; now that has fallen to about 73%. Which only exceeds England's reported Christian population by 23%. We aren't really that far behind our parent country, and certainly are moving forward in this aspect of religion, even if it seems slow and too far behind the rest of the world. Half of our country didn't even exist until the 1840's. So I feel like, at least in the case of comparing America to Europe, we got a bit of a later start but we're moving in the same direction. It's just a messy business trying to do so when each state can also make laws of their own. You end up with states like Alabama, where over half of the population attends church regularly, then states like the one I live in (Maine) where about a quarter of the people go to church regularly.
Kaworu 17
Fermionic
Kaworu 17
Europe had the French Revolution, North America didn't. After that there was no turning back.


Thank goodness that the revolting French were confined only to Europe.
It was too late to stop the spread the secularism, French kissing, French fries, and the plural of ménage à trois.


A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Fire 0ak's avatar

Buggy Mage

I think there's a lot more cultural diversity in Europe due to so many different countries and cultures being in close proximity with each other.
Fire 0ak
I think there's a lot more cultural diversity in Europe due to so many different countries and cultures being in close proximity with each other.

North America less culturally diverse than Europe? I've never heard that before.
Fire 0ak's avatar

Buggy Mage

scacchic
Fire 0ak
I think there's a lot more cultural diversity in Europe due to so many different countries and cultures being in close proximity with each other.

North America less culturally diverse than Europe? I've never heard that before.

They are both diverse, I was just saying that Europe is more diverse because there are so many countries within short distances of each other. So maybe that has a dramatic effect on the General outlook of the people living there.

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