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Shameless Enabler

Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
Tadpole Jackson
*snip*

because why not.
Definitely American.


well I'd have to be, i was allowed to have the guns in the first place.
I'm not gonna judge you or say your attitude is wrong (because I don't really care that much) but coming from a country where guns are heavily controlled - essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public - I can honestly say I've never missed having the opportunity to own a gun. It's not a matter of being allowed to or not, it's a culture thing, and the cultural mindset that firearms are a right, not a privilege, is very localised to the US, it seems. lol

Original Gaian

nouveau sereph
and the cultural mindset that firearms are a right, not a privilege, is very localised to the US, it seems. lol
One time a long time ago we weren't allowed guns and drank tea, and I believe for this very reason a few very niche people are determinedly scared.

I on the other hand am not a gun toting manic, but I have fired an archaic munition. Its like injecting Steven Segal's fat stomach into your arm. You feel decomposed testosterone and failed movies.
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?

Shameless Enabler

Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?
Violent crimes and murders are almost unheard of where I live, in a city of over a million residents. Take that how you will.
nouveau sereph
Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?
Violent crimes and murders are almost unheard of where I live, in a city of over a million residents. Take that how you will.


how about burglary and theft?

Shameless Enabler

Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?
Violent crimes and murders are almost unheard of where I live, in a city of over a million residents. Take that how you will.


how about burglary and theft?
Also low. If you're angling for 'guns as a deterrant' Australia is a pretty poor example in your favour. Drugs are probably our biggest issue, something which gun availability wouldn't affect one way or the other.

Original Gaian

Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?
Violent crimes and murders are almost unheard of where I live, in a city of over a million residents. Take that how you will.


how about burglary and theft?
North Dakota has one of the more strict weapon control laws in the United States and has the lowest crime rate per capita.

Guns don't sway violence or unlawful actions as much as fear of people with guns and bad temperaments do.
Gabriel Faust
Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
Tadpole Jackson
nouveau sereph
essentially making them unavailable to the vast majority of the public


is that helping your crime rate, by chance?
Violent crimes and murders are almost unheard of where I live, in a city of over a million residents. Take that how you will.


how about burglary and theft?
North Dakota has one of the more strict weapon control laws in the United States and has the lowest crime rate per capita.

Guns don't sway violence or unlawful actions as much as fear of people with guns and bad temperaments do.


north dakota also has a very low population density.

@seraph, i mean compared to before the ban, not compared to other countires.

there are of course cultural differences that must be accounted for.

California for instance, has some of the tightest controls on guns, and that hasn't really helped their crime-rate any.

tl;dr, crims gonna crim

Original Gaian

Tadpole Jackson
north dakota also has a very low population density.
tl;dr, crims gonna crim
Per percentage, they still have a lower crime rate than a lot of other states, or even megalopolis with equal populations.

North Dakota as a whole in 2010 had a murder rate of 1.5 per 100k inhabitants (or .015 per 1000), while Chicago, IL rests at .16 per 1000 (16 per 100k).

I could make an entire argument about gun availability versus gun restriction.

Dangerous Trader

Gabriel Faust
Tadpole Jackson
north dakota also has a very low population density.
tl;dr, crims gonna crim
Per percentage, they still have a lower crime rate than a lot of other states, or even megalopolis with equal populations.

North Dakota as a whole in 2010 had a murder rate of 1.5 per 100k inhabitants (or .015 per 1000), while Chicago, IL rests at .16 per 1000 (16 per 100k).

I could make an entire argument about gun availability versus gun restriction.
Thats like comparing the number of movies made in ohio vs the number of movies made in hollywood. Statistics without meanining.
Gabriel Faust
Tadpole Jackson
north dakota also has a very low population density.
tl;dr, crims gonna crim
Per percentage, they still have a lower crime rate than a lot of other states, or even megalopolis with equal populations.

North Dakota as a whole in 2010 had a murder rate of 1.5 per 100k inhabitants (or .015 per 1000), while Chicago, IL rests at .16 per 1000 (16 per 100k).

I could make an entire argument about gun availability versus gun restriction.


and I'm telling you those statistics have nothing to do with gun regulation.

chicago has some of the tightest control regulations imaginable, your own statistics disproved your point.

low population density reduces crime, you can't just scale it like you did and expect the statistics to have meaning.

edit: here's an idea gabriel, try crime statistics based on number of people per square mile.
Tadpole Jackson
yeah the flash caught the barrel like that, in the ******** version of the photo you can see the breech face, it's blatantly obvious a round isn't in the pipe.

I kind of figured it would be unloaded, but that doesn't mean you still aren't breaking one of "the rules."

I mean, really, it's fine... but even if I checked it myself it would still give me the willies to look down it from the business end like that.

RE: "Statistics and anecdotes"
It's hard to compare to different countries... there's all kinds of factors that might make things work in one place but not in another.

Within the US though, there is a very clear and present trend as several states have more recently issued carry permits, that at the minimum does not increase gun violence. In all cases to my knowledge, crime goes down... but as we all know, correlation does not imply causation.

I would at least say that it's pretty conclusive evidence that giving law abiding citizens who pass background checks the ability to carry a gun does not implicitly cause gun violence. This seems like a "duh," but the Brady campaign screams that "blood will run in the streets" every time a state passes shall-issue carry. They've been wrong every single time.

If the police/government can figure out a way to take away guns from the majority of the criminals first, then at least the anti-gun folks would have a platform to stand on (though there are other reasons, at least they would have a valid talking point). Taking them away from the law-abiding folks first with laws that are completely ineffective at stopping the criminals is about the most a**-backwards strategy I can think of.

nouveau sereph
I can honestly say I've never missed having the opportunity to own a gun.
It's hard to miss what you've never had. blaugh

Seriously though, once you get outside of the whole stigma about them being scary evil devices only capable of hurting children and old women, they are FUN.

In the same way you might play bowling, or drive a fast car around a race track, it's a feat of skill. Yes, you don't throw the bowling ball back into the seats of your teammates, or drive you car through the crowd. Similarly, responsible gun owners following responsible gun handling rules are perusing a completely safe hobby.

Swimming is a great one to bring up too, since kids are literally about 100 times more likely to be killed by downing in a residential pool in the backyard than they are by a gun in the house.
(This being in the US even, where supposedly there are guns in every drawer and under every mattress.)

Even within the scope of ownership (without use), they are fascinating devices. A lot of old-school engineering goes into making one, machining and smith work. Something with a quality of craftsmanship is not something you see so much theses days in a world of Chinese plastic, assembly lines, and microprocessors.

I love breaking mine down to work on. Kind of like... how a guy might enjoy working on a muscle car in his garage.

Shameless Dabbler

Spent the weekend playing around with my friend's Allen and Heath sound system. Walking around mixing sound on an iPad is quite the experience.

Shameless Enabler

@tadpole jackson: Apparently we've had a falling crime rate for years, anyway, but that wasn't really the point. The point was more that it's not an issue that we're not allowed guns, because culturally, they're not a large part of our national identity. We've never had civil wars on our home soil, we've never been invaded, and our closest neighbours are across oceans and largely dependent on our trade. Why do we need guns? Who will we be defending against? We never had a history that necessitated a provision like the Second Amendment, so we place little value on defending ourselves at a personal level, trusting military and law enforcement to handle that for us. Welcome to Australia, the lucky country.

@slacker: The enjoyment of firearms isn't uncommon here, one of my friends is even skilled enough to go to the world long distance shooting championships this year. We don't think they're evil, we just don't glorify them here, either, and control them so they don't proliferate needlessly - there's no reason why a private citizen should be allowed to own an extensive and dangerous firearm collection without jumping through many hoops or having legitimate reasons (farming, sport, etc), for example, and the structure of our gun control laws makes sure that doesn't happen.

Hallowed Lunatic

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I'd probably prefer to own a crossbow or composite bow since the recoil from a rifle could probably do some damage to my shoulder. My shoulder is weird enough as it is without recoil damage. My party trick is to put my hands behind my back between my shoulder blades for about 10 seconds and my shoulders don't hurt from doing that.

Besides which, guns require some serious care and often special ammo to avoid jamming. I live in an area where 80% humidity is considered low (yay for living on a peninsula) and that may not do a gun much favours. I know that chrome suffers a lot in high humidity.

I'm not that knowledgeable about guns since gun controls are tighter than a duck's arse and the Dunblane school massacre didn't help matters because the knee jerk reaction was to ban all private handgun ownership in the UK.

Edit: Damn you RGoodermote for putting the song "Back to life, back to reality" in my head with a couple of your posts. xp

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