I knew you ******** us on the wings... UPDATED

[GeryKo]

Flying Dicks

GeryKo

Tonikei

Empress Boa

then start a petition for new wings biggrin imo they can make even better ones, more spread out instead of wings going abit diagonal. theres many more ways to make alternative. biggrin alchemy is made so theres use for trash, zomg loots, and fishes that have accumulated for a long time. what better way to get people motivated to do alchemy than rare items that everyone angtsy about. i think its genius! it also helps the really rich people in gaia have a challenge, and gold sink if theyre willing to even try crafting the wings items. lol!

I don't even want the wings. That's not the point. emotion_facepalm Why do you keep telling people that? Are you ignoring what other people are trying to say since making a petition is some God's given answer to Gaia? I don't know how great of a gold sink this even is. I kind of think it sort of makes things worse as the people who hoarded billions are now spreading the wealth. The gold was concentrated within a small group of people and now it's going to others. It's aiding, but I don't think it's a very effective gold sink unless it's taking gold from everyone at a steady rate. Kind of like when people suggest that more components should be placed in Bifrost for a high amount. That would be an effective gold sink. It's taking away gold faster instead of spreading the gold.

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Is this like ants or something? You see one, and that guarantees 20 more are nearby?

Anyways...
I don't care about gold getting spread around. HOWEVER that is not entirely the case. The rich Gaians mostly make their own cases and caches.
My main problem is that this is so inaccessible... I mean hell they admit its for the upper 3% of the site. And backwings were promised for years... this is how they choose to release them? In this broken scam of a feature?

Keiko rin tried SIXTEEN TIMES to craft her kitten star. That is 16 MILLION gold just in ATTEMPTS ALONE. In the end she had to go to staff to get the item manually granted to her. THESE ARE THE ODDS WE FACE IN ALCHEMY.

These are the odds we face for the wings. The wings we waited years for. The wings the artists danced around, like with hermes moon, refusing to give us anything that might be similar to backwings. These are the wings that everyone is supposed to have a chance at.

Everyone does NOT have a chance at these. I've been on Gaia since I was 13 but I've grown up now. I'm 21. I don't have time, to sit here and play on Gaia all day, and I don't have the money to buy my riches.
There are tons of other people in my situation.

Now, I am supportive of the people who're currently ATTEMPTING to make backwings, but doesn't this seem a tiny bit backwards to you? That they'd make a system that only a few people in a very specific situation could use?

This feature is so ******** that most people cannot even attempt to use it...
It's broken. It needs fixing.
At the end of the day... whether I personally have the wings, is not my main concern. I'd never use them anyways. But, people should be able to try. People should be able to participate. Right now, they can't.

First of all i didnt said alchemy dont need tweeking yes it can be done many many things to it like better odds for example, or removing the fish and zomg items from caches craftings but still i do not agree it is a broken future, i do not agree it is for only 3% of gaians and i do not agree that having been first to craft something have to be granted only becouse you are old user... i am old user too and i dont expect to be granted with free items for that
I only want to say that if more ppl were doing alchemy there would be more items in the market and your crafting work would have been cheaper and easyer.... and yes there are few thing that can be tweeked

[GeryKo]

Tonikei

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

I don't think it's a very well "spread" gold sink. It's a different kind. It can send one person off to oblivion, but it doesn't totally affect people at a wide scale. It depends. I see it more as a leech that drains off a person who wasn't totally sharing with others to begin with until BAM. They're flooding the gates to other people.

I may just be pissing off a theorized point of view, though.

so again we are going to that you think that rich ppl should keep their gold and have backwings gifted?

it is a gold sink
1-if i can do 120k by selling trash that i collected only for 10min time would i play bootygrab?
no
2 if i can collect so many trash sure someone would be able too
3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right? yes but this time with well hoarded items in thouse rich accounts.
And again noone is forsing you to do anything it is your choice to play alchemy to spend gold and to craft items you can choose to craft or not to craft.
And with every crafted philosoper cache we give back 10k so yes is is expensive it is
but it is a working gold sink it may still need tweeking
but I dont want to see alchemy items become like zomg items
there is that thing that sould be balanced and it is hard when it can be crashed so quickly
iconomy is something that should be looked at every and each side because one thing can do other and again and again it would become like a wave .....

I don't think I ever said that rich people should keep their gold. I'm trying to think more of economy balance here. Guess I just can't translate thoughts to words very well. emotion_8c

well are you master of iconomy?

[Kai Merha]

GeryKo

3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right?

That is not a gold sink.

A Gold Sink removes gold from the economy. Buying RIG items with gold is not a gold sink. Buying items from other users is not a gold sink. It is not a gold sink unless the gold is removed and can no longer be spent by anyone.

Alchemy is a piss-poor gold sink because it doesn't remove gold, it just redistributes it. More gold in the system is what causes inflation. People have more gold = people CHARGE more gold = prices go up.

Please stop arguing that Alchemy is a gold sink, because what you're showing up there is not what a gold sink is.

[GeryKo]

Kai Merha

GeryKo

3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right?

That is not a gold sink.

A Gold Sink removes gold from the economy. Buying RIG items with gold is not a gold sink. Buying items from other users is not a gold sink. It is not a gold sink unless the gold is removed and can no longer be spent by anyone.

Alchemy is a piss-poor gold sink because it doesn't remove gold, it just redistributes it. More gold in the system is what causes inflation. People have more gold = people CHARGE more gold = prices go up.

Please stop arguing that Alchemy is a gold sink, because what you're showing up there is not what a gold sink is.

well you just quoted the last part ...so you admit the 2 other points are ways of gold sinks
and we sink 10k gold only for the ingrediatns ...every formula sink in more gold like for the example of the kitty abouve 16mil gold sink huh just from one person....
but alchemy also DOES NOT create gold by itself ....
so one one hand we have all you ppl screaming that alchemy is broken and expensive and in the other you said it doesnt sink gold.... huh it does sink gold every day whatsoever

yes it is good ppl to have more gold,like for normal ppl who actoually cant afford to play with reall cash ...and yes it is normal the price to go up after all thats the main future for items gaia have been puting for years sweatdrop or you havent saw that in the MC museum?

[Kai Merha]

GeryKo

well you just quoted the last part ...so you admit the 2 other points are ways of gold sinks
and we sink 10k gold only for the ingrediatns ...every formula sink in more gold like for the example of the kitty abouve 16mil gold sink huh just from one person....
but alchemy also DOES NOT create gold by itself ....
so one one hand we have all you ppl screaming that alchemy is broken and expensive and in the other you said it doesnt sink gold.... huh it does sink gold every day whatsoever

yes it is good ppl to have more gold,like for normal ppl who actoually cant afford to play with reall cash ...and yes it is normal the price to go up after all thats the main future for items gaia have been puting for years sweatdrop or you havent saw that in the MC museum?

I trimmed your other parts because they're not gold sinks either, have nothing to do with sinking gold. I specifically discussed your point #3 because you seem to be touting that as a gold sink, and it's not. I do not 'admit' your points are ways of gold sinks.

Gold sinks permanently remove gold from the economy, directly. That is the ONLY definition of a gold sink. GOLD GONE NO SPEND BYE BYE.

Alchemy is not a good gold sink because the amount of gold it removes is infinitessimal.

Alchemy is a poor feature because it increases inflation, destroys items and ******** the economy.

Not all inflation is bad. Rampant, mass inflation IS BAD. Alchemy contributes to rampant, mass inflation.


Once again, you only look at the economy from the simplest, most foolish perspective. You say "More gold for me is good! Yay, I have more gold! So Alchemy is good!"

You don't consider long-term damage to the economy, item availability, rampant mass inflation, the way it ignores all of the site except people who play the Marketplace or any of the other issues Alchemy has created and have been debated in this thread till we're blue in the face.

[Empress Boa]

Chahklet

Empress Boa

Razumi Yazura

Have I said once that they're not progressing at all? No. I haven't. I'm just giving another point of view.
I agree with you on that part, but I still feel that it was uncalled for to call someone a hypocrite for simply giving different input. Or at least, perhaps we even see things in a similar light, but at a different angle. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with petitions and I will continue to support the ones I have been supporting. Just that this isn't a solution to the current topic. Deal?

im sorry for calling you hypocrite. but i just wish people who do get involved in alchemy and making money, can support gaia in a way to thank them. because clearly it is helping alot of people too but no one tends to voice it out or recognize it. I really believe its the easiest way to make gold right now. as much as i wish the wings werent that rare, and i could have it easily, i cant change the fact that they are rare. so i will wait for alternatives or just try to concentrate on other quest items. i dont wanna worry about wings, theres other wings i could use right now. Im just thankful i got gold through alchemy to buy other items i want blaugh

I'm glad you think about yourself. :/

you dont quite understand it bc ur not in my position, yes i make gold for myself but most of all, poor people benefit from it the most. think of all people who do pick up trash, zomg loots, andfishing, its quite a reward for them too. a good way to earn gold for quests etc. so if you think im doing alchemy solely to help myself out, then ur wrong. bc ive helped so many of my friends gain some gold too. i buy alot of vg loot from friends, and fishes and trash as well 3nodding

[Empress Boa]

GeryKo

Kai Merha

GeryKo

3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right?

That is not a gold sink.

A Gold Sink removes gold from the economy. Buying RIG items with gold is not a gold sink. Buying items from other users is not a gold sink. It is not a gold sink unless the gold is removed and can no longer be spent by anyone.

Alchemy is a piss-poor gold sink because it doesn't remove gold, it just redistributes it. More gold in the system is what causes inflation. People have more gold = people CHARGE more gold = prices go up.

Please stop arguing that Alchemy is a gold sink, because what you're showing up there is not what a gold sink is.

well you just quoted the last part ...so you admit the 2 other points are ways of gold sinks
and we sink 10k gold only for the ingrediatns ...every formula sink in more gold like for the example of the kitty abouve 16mil gold sink huh just from one person....
but alchemy also DOES NOT create gold by itself ....
so one one hand we have all you ppl screaming that alchemy is broken and expensive and in the other you said it doesnt sink gold.... huh it does sink gold every day whatsoever

yes it is good ppl to have more gold,like for normal ppl who actoually cant afford to play with reall cash ...and yes it is normal the price to go up after all thats the main future for items gaia have been puting for years sweatdrop or you havent saw that in the MC museum?

I agree with this. and i guess people who really dont do alchemy dont quite understand what we mean. There are parts of alchemy that "can" be gold sink. theres parts that are not.

[Sparkle Kitten Star]

Unfortunately just because it sank 16mil from me when attempting to make my kitten does not make it an effective gold sink.
-all it accomplished there was to Alienate me, and other potential crafters after they saw my case and what happened to me. I will not even think about touching Alchemy again until it is fixed.
Nobody wants to lose 16 million gold on nothing but failed craftings, especially when they worked so hard already to gather the components.

If all Alchemy does is serve to push people away from using it with ridiculous costs and crafting rates, how is it ever going to be an effective gold sink?

Ill tell you..... It isn't.


Gold Sink = Deflation = Good! biggrin

Item Sink = Inflation = Bad. sad

The only thing Alchemy is at this point, is an Item Sink. -and it is the main cause of a lot of inflation for several irreplaceable items that are being destroyed at a rapid rate because of it.

[Empress Boa]

Keiko-Rin

Unfortunately just because it sank 16mil from me when attempting to make my kitten does not make it an effective gold sink.
-all it accomplished there was to Alienate me, and other potential crafters after they saw my case and what happened to me. I will not even think about touching Alchemy again until it is fixed.
Nobody wants to lose 16 million gold on nothing but failed craftings, especially when they worked so hard already to gather the components.

If all Alchemy does is serve to push people away from using it with ridiculous costs and crafting rates, how is it ever going to be an effective gold sink?

Ill tell you..... It isn't.


Gold Sink = Deflation = Good! biggrin

Item Sink = Inflation = Bad. sad

The only thing Alchemy is at this point, is an Item Sink. -and it is the main cause of a lot of inflation for several irreplaceable items that are being destroyed at a rapid rate because of it.

I do agree with this, i think they should just change it all so that crafting only requires components instead of items from rigs or mp or stores that are hard enough to find. If this happens, im sure alot more people will start crafting philosopher caches and alchemist cases.

[Poshul]

None of this stuff these couple people are saying is new. I have heard all of it before and responded to it all before. I'm just going to reiterate: it's nice that you're making money from caches/cases and trash however, alchemy is an entire SYSTEM with many recipes, not just those few. When you talk about "alchemy" and you really mean "crafting caches and cases" that's not right. Also speaking of crafting those as good and a way for you to get profit and so then implying the entire system of alchemy is fine as is is again wrong because you are only looking at that one tiny fraction of the entire system.

Hate to break it to you, alchemy is not "new" anymore. We are nearly a year into it now and had we just "waited it out" those caches and cases you profit from so much wouldn't even be doable for you. Their formulas were only changed because we kept on them about it. It's the only thing they have decided to change since this mess began.

With some of you it's damned if we do damned if we don't. We complain about it so it's just "wait and see". If we wait and see and nothing happens it's "well you should have complained about it back then". And I'm sorry, but an entire system built around the rich make the goods and the poor paupers sell the components to them is NOT something I'm going to praise Gaia for. I'm willing to sacrifice the profit from cache and case making if it means people will be able to make all the recipes and have fun with the system and who's to say that if some of those crazy recipes became easier to do, you couldn't make profit from them too? You want to keep it the same to protect your current earning style because it's easy and profitable and to hell with the rest of the broken system, ridiculous requirements for anything other than those couple recipes, and nothing readily available and inviting you to use it other than trash. Who are the ones who want it to be easy again?

[GeryKo]

Keiko-Rin

Unfortunately just because it sank 16mil from me when attempting to make my kitten does not make it an effective gold sink.
-all it accomplished there was to Alienate me, and other potential crafters after they saw my case and what happened to me. I will not even think about touching Alchemy again until it is fixed.
Nobody wants to lose 16 million gold on nothing but failed craftings, especially when they worked so hard already to gather the components.

If all Alchemy does is serve to push people away from using it with ridiculous costs and crafting rates, how is it ever going to be an effective gold sink?

Ill tell you..... It isn't.


Gold Sink = Deflation = Good! biggrin

Item Sink = Inflation = Bad. sad

The only thing Alchemy is at this point, is an Item Sink. -and it is the main cause of a lot of inflation for several irreplaceable items that are being destroyed at a rapid rate because of it.

i am sry for your lost gold but there wouldnt be deflation on gaia it is not possible not even with gold sink or anything else...and the items sink well you can craft every evolution item starting from the one that can be granted from your acuarium to others...like i will say again i do not say that this sistem is fine and working perfect...like i said if you had read up up up i think the system need tweeking and there are thing to be done but they wouldnt be done if we all scream about how it doesnt work...screaming doesnt help, yes we can think about all give suggestions and all but again whineing wouldnt help much and what i read in last few pages is just that whineing so i am going out ^^ and leave this topic die again

[GeryKo]

Poshul

None of this stuff these couple people are saying is new. I have heard all of it before and responded to it all before. I'm just going to reiterate: it's nice that you're making money from caches/cases and trash however, alchemy is an entire SYSTEM with many recipes, not just those few. When you talk about "alchemy" and you really mean "crafting caches and cases" that's not right. Also speaking of crafting those as good and a way for you to get profit and so then implying the entire system of alchemy is fine as is is again wrong because you are only looking at that one tiny fraction of the entire system.

Hate to break it to you, alchemy is not "new" anymore. We are nearly a year into it now and had we just "waited it out" those caches and cases you profit from so much wouldn't even be doable for you. Their formulas were only changed because we kept on them about it. It's the only thing they have decided to change since this mess began.

With some of you it's damned if we do damned if we don't. We complain about it so it's just "wait and see". If we wait and see and nothing happens it's "well you should have complained about it back then". And I'm sorry, but an entire system built around the rich make the goods and the poor paupers sell the components to them is NOT something I'm going to praise Gaia for. I'm willing to sacrifice the profit from cache and case making if it means people will be able to make all the recipes and have fun with the system and who's to say that if some of those crazy recipes became easier to do, you couldn't make profit from them too? You want to keep it the same to protect your current earning style because it's easy and profitable and to hell with the rest of the broken system, ridiculous requirements for anything other than those couple recipes, and nothing readily available and inviting you to use it other than trash. Who are the ones who want it to be easy again?

read up up up ^^

[Empress Boa]

Poshul

None of this stuff these couple people are saying is new. I have heard all of it before and responded to it all before. I'm just going to reiterate: it's nice that you're making money from caches/cases and trash however, alchemy is an entire SYSTEM with many recipes, not just those few. When you talk about "alchemy" and you really mean "crafting caches and cases" that's not right. Also speaking of crafting those as good and a way for you to get profit and so then implying the entire system of alchemy is fine as is is again wrong because you are only looking at that one tiny fraction of the entire system.

Hate to break it to you, alchemy is not "new" anymore. We are nearly a year into it now and had we just "waited it out" those caches and cases you profit from so much wouldn't even be doable for you. Their formulas were only changed because we kept on them about it. It's the only thing they have decided to change since this mess began.

With some of you it's damned if we do damned if we don't. We complain about it so it's just "wait and see". If we wait and see and nothing happens it's "well you should have complained about it back then". And I'm sorry, but an entire system built around the rich make the goods and the poor paupers sell the components to them is NOT something I'm going to praise Gaia for. I'm willing to sacrifice the profit from cache and case making if it means people will be able to make all the recipes and have fun with the system and who's to say that if some of those crazy recipes became easier to do, you couldn't make profit from them too? You want to keep it the same to protect your current earning style because it's easy and profitable and to hell with the rest of the broken system, ridiculous requirements for anything other than those couple recipes, and nothing readily available and inviting you to use it other than trash. Who are the ones who want it to be easy again?

you clearly missed my point, all though i would love to keep steady profit. id prefer for them to lessen the trash in making caches. Im trying to level up as well too. Im level 5. I understand its hard to sometimes acquire things to level up thus, its not fun for people. I want alot of people to get into alchemy more. if everyone got on it, there would be more components and formulas out, making everything more accessible to people. Even the rich can sell components so they can make gold too. its really their choice to buy or not. it all depends on their patience to gather these items ye? Theyre always looking into fixes. Yes its good that people voice out to gaia what they need. So just maybe all of you suggest it to Gaia through ATA instead of constant complaining and bitching about it. Im so tired of drama. there's always things to complain about. You people will never be happy.

If people just wont scare everyone into thinking Alchemy is so negative, thered be soo many more people getting into Alchemy, thus making components and formulas cheaper etc. so please tell me again i just want to keep these profits for myself.

[The Zorya]

Empress Boa

The Zorya

It's not only backwings.
In Empress Boa's case, I assume it is because they have been anticipating for them for so long, that it will loose it's appeal for them if more than 3 people on the site wore alchemy's angelic wings.

don't even assume that stressed if those wings were selling for 250 GC Id buy each of those wings to keep. Don't get me wrong but I just feel like something really beautiful like that should be quite rare. If there wasnt any rare items, how could people really quest for it. some people find the fun in that. That feeling of accomplishment that you've crafted something so impossible to do, is worth the high quality wings imo. if it was so easy to acquire say the angelic halo, if they brought it back etc, wouldnt alot of people get quite mad. I remember that one time when they had 1 raffle of an angelic halo and costed a huge uproar on people saying dont do that, because it should be rare yada yada yada.

For short, people are NEVER thankful for most things here in gaia. there's always lots of complaints on everything. Lots of different sides. It's not like this is the last time they will make some type of backwings. Geezus.

People who QQed on release of single angelic halo were morons, because there was only one released, which will not affect it's worth, so I see no reson why you put this into your post.
Making pair of backwings should not be more difficult than making a nicely rendered dress, which due to thematic and limited target audience is not as much drooled over. (if it is harder to render, then there is something horribly wrong with artist, or they are pulling your leg). So, let us just leave out on how superawesomefantastic you think backwings are. Objectively, the backwings are not better than most of recently released cash shop items that sold for two dollars. And no, I will not feel accomplished if I spent +8 years on crafting single pair of medium backwings while investing all of my skills and resources. I would feel much more accomplished to draw those by myself in 20 minutes.

Issue here is that the developers that worked on alchemy did not find the middle ground in making it challenging without making it too frustrating. Job of SF is to complain when something like this happens so developers know that there is something wrong with system.

[The Undead Suitor]

The Zorya

Issue here is that the developers that worked on alchemy did not find the middle ground in making it challenging without making it too frustrating. Job of SF is to complain when something like this happens so developers know that there is something wrong with system.

The issue with Alchemy is that the developers didn't do anything. The artists of the alchemy items set the rarity, and they all believe that those items should be near-impossibly to make because....


...


they..made them?



What the developers are doing now with the caches and cases is nothing but damage control, and fixing a broken system created by a bunch of artists who know nothing about item statistics. And just wanted to make a rare item in their name.