'Nu' Goth and 'Pastel' Goth

[Sweet Peppermint Tea]

Jagger-Wolf

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

It's not hard to find a place that doesn't know what goth is. Again, emo has taken over the dark subculture stereotype, so when people think of anything dark, they 99% of the time immediately jump to "emo". I just encountered that this weekend with my tabletop roleplay game master. He asked me what my character looked line on average, so I had him search Google images for "Deathrock girl". His first response was "Oh, so a sort of emo-punk combination, huh?" I was like "Um, no, not at all." and went into this whole long discussion about how emo only came out within the last 10 years or so, deathrock is the missing link between punk and goth, that goth has been around much longer than emo, will be around much longer after emo completely dies out, and how our values, music, culture and behavior/personalities are COMPLETELY different.

Again, not hard to find people who don't know what goth is. The vast majority of people I've EVER encountered, in my 26 years of life, have no idea what goth is, that is does/still exists, or how it works. It's all just "emo" to them.

yum_tea That makes me sad in ways that I just can not find the appropriate words for. Even here in ******** Alabama, the first thing people think/say when they see my little coffin purse is, "Oh, she must be one of those goths."

[Jagger-Wolf]

Sweet Peppermint Tea

Jagger-Wolf

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

It's not hard to find a place that doesn't know what goth is. Again, emo has taken over the dark subculture stereotype, so when people think of anything dark, they 99% of the time immediately jump to "emo". I just encountered that this weekend with my tabletop roleplay game master. He asked me what my character looked line on average, so I had him search Google images for "Deathrock girl". His first response was "Oh, so a sort of emo-punk combination, huh?" I was like "Um, no, not at all." and went into this whole long discussion about how emo only came out within the last 10 years or so, deathrock is the missing link between punk and goth, that goth has been around much longer than emo, will be around much longer after emo completely dies out, and how our values, music, culture and behavior/personalities are COMPLETELY different.

Again, not hard to find people who don't know what goth is. The vast majority of people I've EVER encountered, in my 26 years of life, have no idea what goth is, that is does/still exists, or how it works. It's all just "emo" to them.

yum_tea That makes me sad in ways that I just can not find the appropriate words for. Even here in ******** Alabama, the first thing people think/say when they see my little coffin purse is, "Oh, she must be one of those goths."

I'm in Utah, which I don't know if it is worse or the same as Alabama, maybe in different ways. The best I get is "emo f**". I'm a girl. stare

[Sweet Peppermint Tea]

Jagger-Wolf

Sweet Peppermint Tea

Jagger-Wolf

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

It's not hard to find a place that doesn't know what goth is. Again, emo has taken over the dark subculture stereotype, so when people think of anything dark, they 99% of the time immediately jump to "emo". I just encountered that this weekend with my tabletop roleplay game master. He asked me what my character looked line on average, so I had him search Google images for "Deathrock girl". His first response was "Oh, so a sort of emo-punk combination, huh?" I was like "Um, no, not at all." and went into this whole long discussion about how emo only came out within the last 10 years or so, deathrock is the missing link between punk and goth, that goth has been around much longer than emo, will be around much longer after emo completely dies out, and how our values, music, culture and behavior/personalities are COMPLETELY different.

Again, not hard to find people who don't know what goth is. The vast majority of people I've EVER encountered, in my 26 years of life, have no idea what goth is, that is does/still exists, or how it works. It's all just "emo" to them.

yum_tea That makes me sad in ways that I just can not find the appropriate words for. Even here in ******** Alabama, the first thing people think/say when they see my little coffin purse is, "Oh, she must be one of those goths."

I'm in Utah, which I don't know if it is worse or the same as Alabama, maybe in different ways. The best I get is "emo f**". I'm a girl. stare

yum_tea Note to self: Avoid Utah.

[Celestial Capricorn]

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

[Jagger-Wolf]

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Gothic, outside of the fashion and music subculture, is a form of architecture, the Catholics are just big into dark themes and guilting their followers, so it fit them. A lot of Catholic cathedrals were built during the time gothic architecture was a big popular deal. Goth has no religion, and no religion is goth.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

Um, no. Catholicism is a religion, goth is a subculture around fashion and music. There is NO religion involved in goth, at all. How each individual in the goth culture interprets religion is up to them and them alone, there is no connection to the Catholic religion as a generality in the community itself, there are no religious overtones or beliefs. Most goths I know are some kind of pagan, or are Atheist.

[Celestial Capricorn]

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

Um, no. Catholicism is a religion, goth is a subculture around fashion and music. There is NO religion involved in goth, at all. How each individual in the goth culture interprets religion is up to them and them alone, there is no connection to the Catholic religion as a generality in the community itself, there are no religious overtones or beliefs. Most goths I know are some kind of pagan, or are Atheist.

If you like Wikipedia here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

[Sweet Peppermint Tea]

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

yum_tea I've never heard of goths being referred to as "gruesome emos." I do believe that you are just making s**t up as you go in order to rile people up.

Goths do not refer to these tryhards as part of the goth subculture. That's what this entire thread is about; "pastel goth" and "nu goth" have nothing to do with the subculture and are thus misnomers. They should be called something else, namely "tacky."

Goth has nothing to do with Catholicism. Do you even know what Catholicism is? It's a religion, not a genre of music or a fashion statement. That has to be the most ignorant thing I've read today.

I doubt you actually overthink things as much as you claim. Your earlier statements lead me to believe that you don't think at all. :/

[Jagger-Wolf]

Celestial Capricorn

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

Um, no. Catholicism is a religion, goth is a subculture around fashion and music. There is NO religion involved in goth, at all. How each individual in the goth culture interprets religion is up to them and them alone, there is no connection to the Catholic religion as a generality in the community itself, there are no religious overtones or beliefs. Most goths I know are some kind of pagan, or are Atheist.

If you like Wikipedia here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

Right right. "You're not a REAL Goth unless you sacked Rome." We know. Tell us one we haven't heard before. We're not talking about that. rolleyes

Goth, in the form we're talking about which is fashion and culture and music, is in NO WAY attached to the Catholic church, it's teachings and doctrines, or anything like that. Some individual goths enjoy Catholic imagery because it does fit into what goth sometimes is: dark, depressing, morbid, it's amazingly beautiful architecture, the guilt-tripping Catholics do is a very gothy theme. But again, Goth is not a religion, so to say "Goth is a subculture of Catholicism" is absolutely wrong. Catholicism is a subset of Christianity, same as Baptists, Mormons, Presbyterians, etc. are. Goth is not one of them.

[Celestial Capricorn]

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

Um, no. Catholicism is a religion, goth is a subculture around fashion and music. There is NO religion involved in goth, at all. How each individual in the goth culture interprets religion is up to them and them alone, there is no connection to the Catholic religion as a generality in the community itself, there are no religious overtones or beliefs. Most goths I know are some kind of pagan, or are Atheist.

If you like Wikipedia here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

Right right. "You're not a REAL Goth unless you sacked Rome." We know. We're not talking about that. rolleyes

Goth, in the form we're talking about which is fashion and culture and music, is in NO WAY attached to the Catholic church, it's teachings and doctrines, or anything like that. Some individual goths enjoy Catholic imagery because it does fit into what goth sometimes is: dark, depressing, morbid, it's amazingly beautiful architecture, the guilt-tripping Catholics do is a very gothy theme. But again, Goth is not a religion, so to say "Goth is a subculture of Catholicism" is absolutely wrong. Catholicism is a subset of Christianity, same as Baptists, Mormons, Presbyterians, etc. are. Goth is not one of them.

Though that's what I think of when people mention they are Goths.
I never said that is what Goth is, I just think that because I think of the origin of the name instead of what the current meaning of it. Style changes, music changes.
I just worded that wrong.

SORRY!

My stand still stands.
WHO CARES IF SOMEONE LIKES PASTEL GOTH INSTEAD OF THE 'REAL' GOTH YOU GUYS LIKE

[Jagger-Wolf]

Celestial Capricorn

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Jagger-Wolf

Celestial Capricorn

Sweet Peppermint Tea

yum_tea I...wait, what? What kind of place do you live in where people don't even know what a goth is? I mean, you had to have seen at least one goth in your lifetime to know that they aren't "gruesome emos," and you clearly know goth rock's connection to the early post-punk movement, so...what is this I don't even!

Someone already linked to Voltaire's wonderful book, but as it is out of print and thus difficult to track down (sob), I will let Wikipedia do the talking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

^Not all goths agree with everything on the page, but it is a good starting place and, as far as I can tell, the section on goth rock and its role in the formation of the subculture is fairly accurate.

I was just stating that is the stereotype of Goths that I've heard. If people are saying that Nu Goth aren't actual Goths but something else. If they refer to them as Goths and have interest in the Goth lure then I would consider them to be a Sub part of Goth.
To me Goths are just a subculture of Catholic. At least that's where the word 'Gothic' came from.

Though to be honest, I am terrible at labeling people through styles. That's why I mentioned what is a Goth. I over think a lot of things and always go to the root meaning of the word instead of the actual reason why the style became what it is.

Um, no. Catholicism is a religion, goth is a subculture around fashion and music. There is NO religion involved in goth, at all. How each individual in the goth culture interprets religion is up to them and them alone, there is no connection to the Catholic religion as a generality in the community itself, there are no religious overtones or beliefs. Most goths I know are some kind of pagan, or are Atheist.

If you like Wikipedia here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths

Right right. "You're not a REAL Goth unless you sacked Rome." We know. We're not talking about that. rolleyes

Goth, in the form we're talking about which is fashion and culture and music, is in NO WAY attached to the Catholic church, it's teachings and doctrines, or anything like that. Some individual goths enjoy Catholic imagery because it does fit into what goth sometimes is: dark, depressing, morbid, it's amazingly beautiful architecture, the guilt-tripping Catholics do is a very gothy theme. But again, Goth is not a religion, so to say "Goth is a subculture of Catholicism" is absolutely wrong. Catholicism is a subset of Christianity, same as Baptists, Mormons, Presbyterians, etc. are. Goth is not one of them.

Though that's what I think of when people mention they are Goths.
I never said that is what Goth is, I just think that because I think of the origin of the name instead of what the current meaning of it. Style changes, music changes.
I just worded that wrong.

SORRY!

My stand still stands.
WHO CARES IF SOMEONE LIKES PASTEL GOTH INSTEAD OF THE 'REAL' GOTH YOU GUYS LIKE

The media gave goth it's name, not entirely sure why. But the goth subculture didn't give the name to themselves, they just kinda went with it.

You obviously haven't been reading anything in this thread to explain why we don't like nu- or pastel-goth. I know I've explained it at least twice, if not more. So you can either go back and read it again and actually process it, or ignore it and continue on with your tired old pseudo-intellectual line of "Labels are for soup cans! Who cares what labels you have? I don't label myself or others, labels are for posers! Why do you care?" Continue on.

[boiling acid]

It is so unfair i cant see the video... about what i read it is an interesting topic.

[iyygtreds]

mNmNmK

It is so unfair i cant see the video... about what i read it is an interesting topic.

Well that sux, i think she deleted it, oh well... well if you wanna see her other vids check em out here
SebastionTheGirl heart

[iyygtreds]

Sweet Peppermint Tea

Fluffie Kittie

Sweet Peppermint Tea

Fluffie Kittie

I dress like what many may call a "pastel goth" or a "nu goth" but I listen to a lot of goth music and i know gothic history. Labels are labels. If someone wishes to call themselves goth, then so be it.

yum_tea So to further elaborate on Jagger's apple juice analogy, if I take the label off of a jug of apple juice and put an orange juice label on it, does that change the apple juice into orange juice? Or is it still apple juice?

If you call badly coordinated decora "pastel goth," does that make it goth, or is it still badly coordinated decora?

The way i was thinking of it didn't cover many people. Yes, then it is badly coordinated decora.

yum_tea No offense meant to you or anyone else who likes this style, but every last example I have seen is just...shitty decora. I mean, it's truly awful. It's like someone wanted to do a creepy-cute rendition of decora, failed at coordination, and decided to add some black lipstick and say, "HAI U GAIZ I'M SO TOTES GOFF NAO!!!1"

Bat earrings and black lipstick does not goth fashion make. "Pastel goth" is not goth at all.

I very much agree with you. lol heart

[iyygtreds]

Meep meep meep lets aaalll write novels now xd

[Jagger-Wolf]

The 14th Chevalier

mNmNmK

It is so unfair i cant see the video... about what i read it is an interesting topic.

Well that sux, i think she deleted it, oh well... well if you wanna see her other vids check em out here
SebastionTheGirl heart

Though disappointed, I'm not surprised. The amount of VIOLENT hatred she received after posting that video, both in the video comments, on her Facebook and Tumblr and elsewhere, was absolutely shocking. Death threats, threats of violence, personal character and appearance attacks, it was absolutely deplorable that people could do this to someone just voicing an opinion online, even when that opinion is expressed in a calm, articulate, and respectful manner. She wasn't insulting anyone, wasn't condemning anyone, so what prompted all of this hate I don't fully understand.

Probably nu- and pastel-goths just showing their "true colors", as it were. Defending their "right" to the goth moniker in the only way they could think of to do so: childishly, arrogantly, and in the most unintelligent and disrespectful ways possible. Way to go, kids. rolleyes