'Nu' Goth and 'Pastel' Goth

[noonenoone111]

Juliannna

Electrick Lala

This is all so dramatic. Why does everyone care so much about what others are wearing?

Because people have too much time on their hands/like trolling.

I think it can be very beautiful. Don't care if it doesn't go by the "goth" rules. Live and let live.

beauty can be found in all things even trolling heh heh

[Aellope]

That Felice Fawn looks like she just rolled out of bed in 90% of her photos. =/ I don't know, looking like you're only half dressed isn't fashionable in any genre to me. She may have a beautiful body, but there are classier ways to show it off. I can understand why the girl in the video would be upset about that kind of group trying to stake claim into goth territory. It's not fashion, it's just attention mongering.

That goes double for the upside down cross being a staple in pastel goth. I've never met a Satanist goth, actually. I know plenty of Christian goths, though. It's different to wear and upside down cross and say that is represents your personal beliefs, but I highly doubt that the group that she was addressing was doing that at all. She's right; they are contributing in giving goth a bad name.

If someone wants to join a subculture, and wants to put their own individual spin on things, then that's fine. But I think that its important to do some research before your makeover and to really understand what you're getting into and what you're trying to represent.

Also... I really love that girl's big, smokey eyes. Not crazy about the drawn on eyebrows; I think that's what contributed to how nervous she seemed while she was talking, but otherwise she's very pretty.

[Jagger-Wolf]

PKMN Breeder Aello

That Felice Fawn looks like she just rolled out of bed in 90% of her photos. =/ I don't know, looking like you're only half dressed isn't fashionable in any genre to me. She may have a beautiful body, but there are classier ways to show it off. I can understand why the girl in the video would be upset about that kind of group trying to stake claim into goth territory. It's not fashion, it's just attention mongering.

That goes double for the upside down cross being a staple in pastel goth. I've never met a Satanist goth, actually. I know plenty of Christian goths, though. It's different to wear and upside down cross and say that is represents your personal beliefs, but I highly doubt that the group that she was addressing was doing that at all. She's right; they are contributing in giving goth a bad name.

If someone wants to join a subculture, and wants to put their own individual spin on things, then that's fine. But I think that its important to do some research before your makeover and to really understand what you're getting into and what you're trying to represent.

Also... I really love that girl's big, smokey eyes. Not crazy about the drawn on eyebrows; I think that's what contributed to how nervous she seemed while she was talking, but otherwise she's very pretty.

The inverted cross has nothing to do with Satanism. It's a VERY Christian symbol, there's one hanging in the Vatican, for crying out loud! Satanism isn't even necessarily a bad thing, most Satanists just worship earthly pleasures and live for their earthly lives, while Christians live for their heavenly lives. They worship the idea of Lucifer and what he represents, not as if he were an actual entity.

There is no specific religion tied to goth, though Christian symbols and imagery are common because of the gothic architecture that helped define the current style. You can be a Muslim goth, you can be an Atheist goth, you can be whatever religion or belief system you want and it's still as "legit" goth as anyone else.

You can put your own spin on your chosen subculture, I agree. But you CANNOT claim that your spin is better than others, or other existing established styles. Nu- and pastel-goths are claiming to be the "new face" of goth, and they are absolutely NOT that, at all.

[Jagger-Wolf]

Electrick Lala

This is all so dramatic. Why does everyone care so much about what others are wearing?

We care because, like anything else you love, you want to see it done right. There IS a right way and a wrong way to do goth looks, though there are many interpretations of it. There ARE rules, there ARE guidelines, and when those are not met, you cannot and should not call yourself a goth. These new forms of "goth" do not meet these rules and guidelines, therefore, should not be called goth.

[Aellope]

Jagger-Wolf

PKMN Breeder Aello

That Felice Fawn looks like she just rolled out of bed in 90% of her photos. =/ I don't know, looking like you're only half dressed isn't fashionable in any genre to me. She may have a beautiful body, but there are classier ways to show it off. I can understand why the girl in the video would be upset about that kind of group trying to stake claim into goth territory. It's not fashion, it's just attention mongering.

That goes double for the upside down cross being a staple in pastel goth. I've never met a Satanist goth, actually. I know plenty of Christian goths, though. It's different to wear and upside down cross and say that is represents your personal beliefs, but I highly doubt that the group that she was addressing was doing that at all. She's right; they are contributing in giving goth a bad name.

If someone wants to join a subculture, and wants to put their own individual spin on things, then that's fine. But I think that its important to do some research before your makeover and to really understand what you're getting into and what you're trying to represent.

Also... I really love that girl's big, smokey eyes. Not crazy about the drawn on eyebrows; I think that's what contributed to how nervous she seemed while she was talking, but otherwise she's very pretty.

The inverted cross has nothing to do with Satanism. It's a VERY Christian symbol, there's one hanging in the Vatican, for crying out loud! Satanism isn't even necessarily a bad thing, most Satanists just worship earthly pleasures and live for their earthly lives, while Christians live for their heavenly lives. They worship the idea of Lucifer and what he represents, not as if he were an actual entity.

There is no specific religion tied to goth, though Christian symbols and imagery are common because of the gothic architecture that helped define the current style. You can be a Muslim goth, you can be an Atheist goth, you can be whatever religion or belief system you want and it's still as "legit" goth as anyone else.

You can put your own spin on your chosen subculture, I agree. But you CANNOT claim that your spin is better than others, or other existing established styles. Nu- and pastel-goths are claiming to be the "new face" of goth, and they are absolutely NOT that, at all.

Oh, I know that, about the cross. But I also know that most of the people who would be wearing a T shirt with an inverted cross and calling themselves "goth" would not be wearing it with any other meaning in mind (If people really do wear Tshirts with an upside down cross to represent any other religious belief than Satanism (or just to insult Christianity), then I apologize because I've never seen it). That happened with pentacles in the 90s as well, people wore them for status and shock value, calling it "goth", and not because they felt a connection with what the symbol was mean to represent.

I don't have anything again't Satanists, either. I've had one as a friend, though he wasn't goth. But again, in the context of these people that the video was talking about, the merits of the religion aren't really being put into view and that's what's actually hurting some people's perception of goth. Those kids are wearing that cross for the sake of shock value, and its working.

I didn't mean to say that all Goths should be Christians, either. I was just trying to point out that these newcomers seem to ignore huge segments of the real goth population while they're trying to claim that they're part of it.

[Jagger-Wolf]

PKMN Breeder Aello

these newcomers seem to ignore huge segments of the real goth population while they're trying to claim that they're part of it.

That is exactly the problem old goths have with nu- and pastel-goths. They do not follow the rules and guidelines of what makes a goth a goth, goth is more than just clothing, and that's all these new forms are focused on. They have no understanding, or even basic comprehension, of goth history, music, other established styles and their histories, absolutely nothing. They are entirely 100% focused on the fashion, and that's secondary, or even third-dary or less, in the goth culture. Anyone can wear the fashion, without any sort of background or understanding, which is why fashion isn't the only indicator of a goth.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

Whenever I hear 'true goth', I think Germanic barbarians. lol

[Jagger-Wolf]

Resonare Praeteriti

Whenever I hear 'true goth', I think Germanic barbarians. lol

"You're not REALLY a Goth unless you sacked Rome." Yeah, we know. Tell us one we haven't heard a thousand times before. rolleyes I get it's supposed to be a joke, so here's your obligatory "lol", but really, it's not original or funny anymore. I'm not trying to be an a*****e here, but it's just kind of annoying at this point.

But I thought it was apparent, based on context, that we were talking about the music and fashion subculture, which derived from punk, and really took root of it's own around the late 70's into the 80's, with founding bands including The Bauhaus, The Cure, and Siouxsie and the Banshes.

If we were talking historical uses of the word "goth", that would be different, and the thread wouldn't be in Real Life Fashion and Style.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

Whenever I hear 'true goth', I think Germanic barbarians. lol

"You're not REALLY a Goth unless you sacked Rome." Yeah, we know. Tell us one we haven't heard a thousand times before. rolleyes I get it's supposed to be a joke, so here's your obligatory "lol", but really, it's not original or funny anymore. It's just kind of annoying at this point.

But I thought it was apparent, based on context, that we were talking about the music and fashion subculture, which derived from punk, and really took root of it's own around the late 70's into the 80's, with founding bands including The Bauhaus, The Cure, and Siouxsie and the Banshes.

If we were talking historical uses of the word "goth", that would be different, and the thread wouldn't be in Real Life Fashion and Style.

I'm a history geek, I had to.

Really though, I don't see why goths get so uppity about their label. The newbies are in a sense doing to you guys what you did to the barbarian tribe. Old being replaced by new and all that jazz. Why fight the progression? Just say you're old school goth and be done with it, let those crazy kids have their phase. They'll get tired of it and go away.

[Jagger-Wolf]

Resonare Praeteriti

I'm a history geek, I had to.

Really though, I don't see why goths get so uppity about their label. The newbies are in a sense doing to you guys what you did to the barbarian tribe. Old being replaced by new and all that jazz. Why fight the progression? Just say you're old school goth and be done with it, let those crazy kids have their phase. They'll get tired of it and go away.

The goth community didn't name themselves, the media gave it to them, and the community decided to run with it.

Labels are just descriptive words, I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when the word "label" or a subculture name comes up. Describe yourself to someone, using one or two words at a time. ALL of those words are labels. Would you describe yourself as a gamer? That's a label. Student is a label. Trendy is a label. Girlfriend/boyfriend is a label. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's STILL apple juice. The label just tells you exactly what's in the bottle, allows you to better understand what it is. That's IT.

These new kids are "ruining" the subculture because they're being assholes about it. They are claiming that they are "the new face" of goth, that their style is the best and end-all-be-all of the goth culture, while they know and understand NOTHING of the goth subculture history and it's origins. That's what's frustrating, that's what's annoying. You cannot call yourself a goth if you do not follow the rules and guidelines established by the subculture over the last 40 some-odd years. You can't blow that off just because you want to and ascribe "goth" to any sort of "dark" alternative subculture while having no idea what you're talking about.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

I'm a history geek, I had to.

Really though, I don't see why goths get so uppity about their label. The newbies are in a sense doing to you guys what you did to the barbarian tribe. Old being replaced by new and all that jazz. Why fight the progression? Just say you're old school goth and be done with it, let those crazy kids have their phase. They'll get tired of it and go away.

The goth community didn't name themselves, the media gave it to them, and the community decided to run with it.

Labels are just descriptive words, I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when the word "label" or a subculture name comes up. Describe yourself to someone, using one or two words at a time. ALL of those words are labels. Would you describe yourself as a gamer? That's a label. Student is a label. Trendy is a label. Girlfriend/boyfriend is a label. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's STILL apple juice. The label just tells you exactly what's in the bottle, allows you to better understand what it is. That's IT.

These new kids are "ruining" the subculture because they're being assholes about it. They are claiming that they are "the new face" of goth, that their style is the best and end-all-be-all of the goth culture, while they know and understand NOTHING of the goth subculture history and it's origins. That's what's frustrating, that's what's annoying. You cannot call yourself a goth if you do not follow the rules and guidelines established by the subculture over the last 40 some-odd years. You can't blow that off just because you want to and ascribe "goth" to any sort of "dark" alternative subculture while having no idea what you're talking about.

Of course, I know that everything has it's labels. Where would we be without them? But I just feel that we are all aware of the posers under any label. They're so painfully obvious it's hard not to be. I say ignore them rather than agitate them, however. They'll go away eventually, as they feed on attention.

[Jagger-Wolf]

Resonare Praeteriti

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

I'm a history geek, I had to.

Really though, I don't see why goths get so uppity about their label. The newbies are in a sense doing to you guys what you did to the barbarian tribe. Old being replaced by new and all that jazz. Why fight the progression? Just say you're old school goth and be done with it, let those crazy kids have their phase. They'll get tired of it and go away.

The goth community didn't name themselves, the media gave it to them, and the community decided to run with it.

Labels are just descriptive words, I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when the word "label" or a subculture name comes up. Describe yourself to someone, using one or two words at a time. ALL of those words are labels. Would you describe yourself as a gamer? That's a label. Student is a label. Trendy is a label. Girlfriend/boyfriend is a label. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's STILL apple juice. The label just tells you exactly what's in the bottle, allows you to better understand what it is. That's IT.

These new kids are "ruining" the subculture because they're being assholes about it. They are claiming that they are "the new face" of goth, that their style is the best and end-all-be-all of the goth culture, while they know and understand NOTHING of the goth subculture history and it's origins. That's what's frustrating, that's what's annoying. You cannot call yourself a goth if you do not follow the rules and guidelines established by the subculture over the last 40 some-odd years. You can't blow that off just because you want to and ascribe "goth" to any sort of "dark" alternative subculture while having no idea what you're talking about.

Of course, I know that everything has it's labels. Where would we be without them? But I just feel that we are all aware of the posers under any label. They're so painfully obvious it's hard not to be. I say ignore them rather than agitate them, however. They'll go away eventually, as they feed on attention.

That's true, but it's still annoying.

It's one thing to be a newbie, meaning new to whatever it is you're doing. Being a noob is a bad thing, meaning you choose not to learn. These kids are noobs to the goth community, not newbies. We all went through a newbie phase, you HAVE to, but you also have to learn and improve yourself based on what you learn. These nu- and pastel-goths refuse to learn or better themselves, and are just embarrassing themselves in the eyes of 98% of the rest of the members of subculture they claim to follow. They are not being progressive, they are not "moving the subculture" in a new direction, they are just trendy ******** who will move on to the newest trend once this one dies off, and claim the same things to that new trend.

I only hope that happens soon.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

I'm a history geek, I had to.

Really though, I don't see why goths get so uppity about their label. The newbies are in a sense doing to you guys what you did to the barbarian tribe. Old being replaced by new and all that jazz. Why fight the progression? Just say you're old school goth and be done with it, let those crazy kids have their phase. They'll get tired of it and go away.

The goth community didn't name themselves, the media gave it to them, and the community decided to run with it.

Labels are just descriptive words, I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a bunch when the word "label" or a subculture name comes up. Describe yourself to someone, using one or two words at a time. ALL of those words are labels. Would you describe yourself as a gamer? That's a label. Student is a label. Trendy is a label. Girlfriend/boyfriend is a label. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's STILL apple juice. The label just tells you exactly what's in the bottle, allows you to better understand what it is. That's IT.

These new kids are "ruining" the subculture because they're being assholes about it. They are claiming that they are "the new face" of goth, that their style is the best and end-all-be-all of the goth culture, while they know and understand NOTHING of the goth subculture history and it's origins. That's what's frustrating, that's what's annoying. You cannot call yourself a goth if you do not follow the rules and guidelines established by the subculture over the last 40 some-odd years. You can't blow that off just because you want to and ascribe "goth" to any sort of "dark" alternative subculture while having no idea what you're talking about.

Of course, I know that everything has it's labels. Where would we be without them? But I just feel that we are all aware of the posers under any label. They're so painfully obvious it's hard not to be. I say ignore them rather than agitate them, however. They'll go away eventually, as they feed on attention.

That's true, but it's still annoying.

It's one thing to be a newbie, meaning new to whatever it is you're doing. Being a noob is a bad thing, meaning you choose not to learn. These kids are noobs to the goth community, not newbies. We all went through a newbie phase, you HAVE to, but you also have to learn and improve yourself based on what you learn. These nu- and pastel-goths refuse to learn or better themselves, and are just embarrassing themselves in the eyes of 98% of the rest of the members of subculture they claim to follow. They are not being progressive, they are not "moving the subculture" in a new direction, they are just trendy ******** who will move on to the newest trend once this one dies off, and claim the same things to that new trend.

I only hope that happens soon.

That last part there is my point exactly. They'll get tired of the goth trend and move on if you just don't pay them any mind. The noobs do it for attention. Just give them a pitying look, laugh, or a shake of the head and leave it at that.

Believe me, I've dealt with my fair share of noobs in my own niche as well. Being a LaVeyan Satanist, I see fools all the time proclaiming their allegiance to the 'Dark Lord' and calling themselves Satanists, all just to look edgy. I see them dressing in all black and inverted crosses, claiming they summon demons and love to spread suffering. All I can do is chuckle to myself and walk away, knowing that true Satanists are nothing like those idiots. In my opinion, the moment you take them seriously is the moment they win.

[Jagger-Wolf]

Resonare Praeteriti

Believe me, I've dealt with my fair share of noobs in my own niche as well. Being a LaVeyan Satanist, I see fools all the time proclaiming their allegiance to the 'Dark Lord' and calling themselves Satanists, all just to look edgy. I see them dressing in all black and inverted crosses, claiming they summon demons and love to spread suffering. All I can do is chuckle to myself and walk away, knowing that true Satanists are nothing like those idiots. In my opinion, the moment you take them seriously is the moment they win.

It's not even the clothing that gets to me, even though I don't find it attractive at all. It's the attitude that gets to me. The stuck up, arrogant, entitled, know-it-all while knowing nothing, bullshit attitude that really bothers me. But that bothers me in any culture or group.

It's just frustrating to see something I love being shat upon because it's the new trendy fashion and kids just do it to be "edgy" and piss off their parents.

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

Jagger-Wolf

Resonare Praeteriti

Believe me, I've dealt with my fair share of noobs in my own niche as well. Being a LaVeyan Satanist, I see fools all the time proclaiming their allegiance to the 'Dark Lord' and calling themselves Satanists, all just to look edgy. I see them dressing in all black and inverted crosses, claiming they summon demons and love to spread suffering. All I can do is chuckle to myself and walk away, knowing that true Satanists are nothing like those idiots. In my opinion, the moment you take them seriously is the moment they win.

It's not even the clothing that gets to me, even though I don't find it attractive at all. It's the attitude that gets to me. The stuck up, arrogant, entitled, know-it-all while knowing nothing, bullshit attitude that really bothers me. But that bothers me in any culture or group.

It's just frustrating to see something I love being shat upon because it's the new trendy fashion and kids just do it to be "edgy" and piss off their parents.

Exactly how I feel about my ideology. If I had a dime for every person who think Satanists worship Satan because of the grossly inaccurate twats spewing garbage, I'd be rich. If I had another dime for every time I wanted to passionately correct people on all of their wild assumptions but gave a light, diplomatic 'now don't assume x, for all you know y could be the real truth of the situation' instead, then I'd be a billionaire.

The more reasonable, level-headed, and diplomatic you are, the more likely people will take your word over the poser's for what goth is. Arguing with the imbeciles hurts that image.