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She says it all. I agree with her, only Im alittle more monstrous about these 'fads'.....

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Ok she did delete the original video I shared here, she did say that she'd probably end up deleting it anyways but here is another she made on it...



If by some chance that video dosen't show up check out her channel...
SebastionTheGirl
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

Did you see her "clarification" video about this? Apparently people attacked her and she had to try to explain herself yet again.

I do agree with 99.9% of what she's said, at least that I've seen in all her videos. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly wise and intelligent and articulate.
Jagger-Wolf
Did you see her "clarification" video about this? Apparently people attacked her and she had to try to explain herself yet again.

I do agree with 99.9% of what she's said, at least that I've seen in all her videos. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly wise and intelligent and articulate.
yes i did see that one.. and yes she is.. thats why i watch vids, shes one of the few smart people out there who actually know what goth really is.. wow man.. rare for someone to be so wise this day and age... and if people get offended by her stating simple facts thats their own fault for being dumb in the first place and for letting what ppl say and think get to them
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

The 14th Chevalier
Jagger-Wolf
Did you see her "clarification" video about this? Apparently people attacked her and she had to try to explain herself yet again.

I do agree with 99.9% of what she's said, at least that I've seen in all her videos. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly wise and intelligent and articulate.
yes i did see that one.. and yes she is.. thats why i watch vids, shes one of the few smart people out there who actually know what goth really is.. wow man.. rare for someone to be so wise this day and age... and if people get offended by her stating simple facts thats their own fault for being dumb in the first place and for letting what ppl say and think get to them
Even if you don't agree with her opinion, you have to respect the fact that she did state them calmly, intelligently, and respectfully. She didn't insult or make fun of anyone who's into nu-goth or pastel-goth, she just stated why she didn't like them and gave reasons as to why she felt certain ways. So the people who freaked out on her were totally in the wrong, I think.

Here are other goth channels I follow, if you wanna check them out, too. You probably already know of most of them, though.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AdoraBatBrat
http://www.youtube.com/user/DeadDollyX <-- She doesn't do as many good goth videos as she used to, but her older ones are great.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BatcaveDilemma
http://www.youtube.com/user/LeahMouse
http://www.youtube.com/user/ohheyjaaayyy
Jagger-Wolf
The 14th Chevalier
Jagger-Wolf
Did you see her "clarification" video about this? Apparently people attacked her and she had to try to explain herself yet again.

I do agree with 99.9% of what she's said, at least that I've seen in all her videos. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly wise and intelligent and articulate.
yes i did see that one.. and yes she is.. thats why i watch vids, shes one of the few smart people out there who actually know what goth really is.. wow man.. rare for someone to be so wise this day and age... and if people get offended by her stating simple facts thats their own fault for being dumb in the first place and for letting what ppl say and think get to them
Even if you don't agree with her opinion, you have to respect the fact that she did state them calmly, intelligently, and respectfully. She didn't insult or make fun of anyone who's into nu-goth or pastel-goth, she just stated why she didn't like them and gave reasons as to why she felt certain ways. So the people who freaked out on her were totally in the wrong, I think.

Here are other goth channels I follow, if you wanna check them out, too. You probably already know of most of them, though.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AdoraBatBrat
http://www.youtube.com/user/DeadDollyX <-- She doesn't do as many good goth videos as she used to, but her older ones are great.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BatcaveDilemma
http://www.youtube.com/user/LeahMouse
http://www.youtube.com/user/ohheyjaaayyy
yeah she didnt even have to necessarily talk s**t to get ppl mad haha nicely done.. and thnx for the links i'll check em out... i already follow ms mouse tho haha ima big fan of hers.... meh never rly considered myself a fan of anything before haha ah well.. never cared for dilemma tho lofl
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

The 14th Chevalier
Jagger-Wolf
The 14th Chevalier
Jagger-Wolf
Did you see her "clarification" video about this? Apparently people attacked her and she had to try to explain herself yet again.

I do agree with 99.9% of what she's said, at least that I've seen in all her videos. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly wise and intelligent and articulate.
yes i did see that one.. and yes she is.. thats why i watch vids, shes one of the few smart people out there who actually know what goth really is.. wow man.. rare for someone to be so wise this day and age... and if people get offended by her stating simple facts thats their own fault for being dumb in the first place and for letting what ppl say and think get to them
Even if you don't agree with her opinion, you have to respect the fact that she did state them calmly, intelligently, and respectfully. She didn't insult or make fun of anyone who's into nu-goth or pastel-goth, she just stated why she didn't like them and gave reasons as to why she felt certain ways. So the people who freaked out on her were totally in the wrong, I think.

Here are other goth channels I follow, if you wanna check them out, too. You probably already know of most of them, though.
http://www.youtube.com/user/AdoraBatBrat
http://www.youtube.com/user/DeadDollyX <-- She doesn't do as many good goth videos as she used to, but her older ones are great.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BatcaveDilemma
http://www.youtube.com/user/LeahMouse
http://www.youtube.com/user/ohheyjaaayyy
yeah she didnt even have to necessarily talk s**t to get ppl mad haha nicely done.. and thnx for the links i'll check em out... i already follow ms mouse tho haha ima big fan of hers.... meh never rly considered myself a fan of anything before haha ah well.. never cared for dilemma tho lofl
Kill Natalie of Batcave Dilemma isn't awesome, but has some cool videos. She tends to ramble a lot, and a lot of her videos are very low quality. But she's cute, seems sweet, and has some good points. A lot of her older videos are better.
This is really interesting, thanks for posting it.
Kitten Kochanie's avatar

Romantic Genius

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Stuff like this always cracks me up, particularly when it's of the gothier-than-though variety (not that I think she's necessarily trying to make herself out as more goth than others). I watched the clarification video and I'll definitely agree with her that goth definitely isn't just about the aesthetic; I'm goth at heart, but you can't really tell that by looking at me.

That being said, who gives a s**t what label others give to themselves? Sure, I'm going to be a bit confused if my jock-ish neighbor suddenly decides to describe himself as a goth, but does it hurt me any? Nah. People worry too much about what other people are doing. I'm officially neutral on the nu goth/pastel goth trends.
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

Kitten Kochanie
Stuff like this always cracks me up, particularly when it's of the gothier-than-though variety (not that I think she's necessarily trying to make herself out as more goth than others). I watched the clarification video and I'll definitely agree with her that goth definitely isn't just about the aesthetic; I'm goth at heart, but you can't really tell that by looking at me.

That being said, who gives a s**t what label others give to themselves? Sure, I'm going to be a bit confused if my jock-ish neighbor suddenly decides to describe himself as a goth, but does it hurt me any? Nah. People worry too much about what other people are doing. I'm officially neutral on the nu goth/pastel goth trends.
She's not trying to be gothier-than-thou. I'm sure she's received tons of messages like "How do you feel about nu-goth?" or "What do you think about pastel-goth?" and she was just answering those messages with one big video.

Labels are just descriptive words, they are not limiting. Or rather, they are only as limiting as you make them for yourself. A label lets you know what is contained within, or at least gives you an idea. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's still apple juice. It just tells you exactly what is in the juice.

Goth HAS rules. Goth HAS standards and expectations. There is no getting around this, there is no arguing this. Many will say "goth is whatever I make it, and whatever I want it to be! Whatever I say is goth, is goth FOR ME." And that's 99% not true. You either abide by the rules of goth, which are very easy to work with, and you are a goth. Or you don't abide by those rules, and you are not. Very simple.

I get why she's bothered by nu- and pastel-goth. They don't have any respect for the history of goth. At least the few who claim to be part of the subcultures have no respect or even idea of the history of goth. Goth has had it's trends and fads, but as a whole it has never gone completely away. Some styles make a big resurgence and become more mainstream sometimes, then they fade and other aspects and styles are brought forth, and so on. This is just the newest "fad" in goth, and I really do hope it dies out soon.

I am bothered by a lot of nu-and pastel-goth images and trends and styles, but again, it's just how I feel about them. People can do whatever they want, it's really no skin off my nose. But I can't help the way I feel.
Kitten Kochanie's avatar

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Jagger-Wolf
She's not trying to be gothier-than-thou. I'm sure she's received tons of messages like "How do you feel about nu-goth?" or "What do you think about pastel-goth?" and she was just answering those messages with one big video.

Labels are just descriptive words, they are not limiting. Or rather, they are only as limiting as you make them for yourself. A label lets you know what is contained within, or at least gives you an idea. If you take the label off a bottle of apple juice, it's still apple juice. It just tells you exactly what is in the juice.

Goth HAS rules. Goth HAS standards and expectations. There is no getting around this, there is no arguing this. Many will say "goth is whatever I make it, and whatever I want it to be! Whatever I say is goth, is goth FOR ME." And that's 99% not true. You either abide by the rules of goth, which are very easy to work with, and you are a goth. Or you don't abide by those rules, and you are not. Very simple.

I get why she's bothered by nu- and pastel-goth. They don't have any respect for the history of goth. At least the few who claim to be part of the subcultures have no respect or even idea of the history of goth. Goth has had it's trends and fads, but as a whole it has never gone completely away. Some styles make a big resurgence and become more mainstream sometimes, then they fade and other aspects and styles are brought forth, and so on. This is just the newest "fad" in goth, and I really do hope it dies out soon.

I am bothered by a lot of nu-and pastel-goth images and trends and styles, but again, it's just how I feel about them. People can do whatever they want, it's really no skin off my nose. But I can't help the way I feel.


I said I don't necessarily think she's trying to be gothier than others; I don't think she is, but I don't know her, so I'd rather just phrase it that way than make an outright statement of her intent.

She's definitely entitled to her opinion and that's fine. In my opinion, videos like this don't really change anything, so I don't really see the point - that's probably just me though, and it's fine. I can definitely agree with the fact that a lot of people are wrong in what goth is and isn't, but I know what goth is and what it isn't, and I'm not really bothered if people incorrectly take up the label. Just makes me laugh. Every subculture seems to take itself too seriously and make these official rules to keep people out of their sandbox (and I'm not talking about people who respect goth history, I'm just talking about the cliquey, gothier-than-thou types); if people were asking her for her opinion on these trends (and I'm sure they were), I don't find it a stretch to wonder if they're the kind that are overly protective of their sandbox. (Then again most of the goths here are really cliquey, so I'm probably all sorts of biased about all of this.)

I can definitely agree that most of the nu- and pastel-goths aren't well informed with the history of goth, and that's a shame. Though most of the "goths" I've met have been of the mallgoth variety, so I'm still just more preoccupied (and amused/annoyed) by them than the nu- and pastel-goth trends. Freaking mallgoths. stare
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

Kitten Kochanie


I can definitely agree that most of the nu- and pastel-goths aren't well informed with the history of goth, and that's a shame. Though most of the "goths" I've met have been of the mallgoth variety, so I'm still just more preoccupied (and amused/annoyed) by them than the nu- and pastel-goth trends. Freaking mallgoths. stare
When you love something, like a subculture, you want to see it done right. Which is why I understand the "I don't think this is goth for these reasons" argument is pretty valid. It's not about keeping people in or out, or protecting their sandbox (which is a very apt analogy, by the way), it's just about maintaining established traditions and keeping goth "pure". If anything and everything could be considered goth just because you want it to, then goth loses a lot of it's "specialness", it's "uniqueness", what makes it different from mainstream "dark" fashions. Just wearing black clothes doesn't make you goth. Wearing heavy dark makeup and black lipstick doesn't make you goth, as she said in the video. While fashion and aesthetics is a part of it, and some value the aesthetics more than others, it's not all that goth is.

To be a goth, one of the first and most important things you need to do is at least know of the original music and appreciate it and respect it. You don't have to listen to it constantly, or exclusively, or even really like it, but you do have to know it's history and it's impact on the subculture that followed it. Goth does have rules, and these new "goth" spin-off cultures don't follow those rules, therefore, they are not goth. The whole "inverted cross" nonsense isn't goth at all, as she said in her video, and I agree 100%. Most of the people sporting these images and icons have absolutely zero idea of what they actually mean, their history, and what sort of message they're conveying to the world. They do it "ironically", hence why nu- and pastel-goth is often also called "hipster goth".

She didn't make the video to change minds. Like I said, I'm sure she just got a ton of messages asking what she thought of these subcultures and rather than answering each one with a copy-paste message, she decided to make a video explaining her thoughts. A lot of her videos are like that, just explaining her thoughts and getting her ideas out there. (Hate to keep repeating myself, but I'm having a rough brain day, and it's been kind of hard for me to properly convey thoughts in general, so you must excuse me for that.)

I agree with things she has to say pretty frequently. For being as young as she is, she's incredibly articulate, informed, and calm about it. I do wish she wouldn't sound so nervous in her videos, her voice sounds shaky all the time, because I don't think she needs to be nervous, you know? She may be one of those people that no matter how often you do something it still makes you nervous doing it before a camera, I know I'm that way. Or that could just be her normal voice, I'm not fully sure. But I like her a lot, I like her videos, her thoughts are pretty good, and her makeup and hair tutorials, as few and far between as they've become lately, are pretty awesome, too.
I love her and I have been watching her videos for a long time now


But it kills me that she seems so.. uncomfortable with expressing her opinion in that video.

I found it very educational. I get labled as a Hipster because of the way I look (I constantly wear sweaters and go to thrift shops because THATS WHAT I CAN AFFORD!!!) I dont have any other characteristics besides that, and the fact i wear glasses because i am as blind as a bat sweatdrop haha, but it doesnt bother me that much. Im just me. 3nodding

I can't understand how it would feel if something you live and breath gets.. 'prototyped', but i can feel how genuin she is.
That was so hard to watch. gonk
Rhouis's avatar

Gawker

She's well articulated with presenting her argument. Even if you don't agree with what she says, you have to respect her for that. She didn't offend or try and trump one over the other.

It's a shame she felt the need to make a clarification video afterwards. But there will always be people that want to clash their opinion with someone elses, especially in the goth subculture.
Finodrerr's avatar

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Very interesting video Pastel goth looks very pretty (had to google image that) Nu goth just sounds like a lot of people I used to go to school with

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