Welcome to Gaia! ::

Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

Electrick Lala
Jagger-Wolf
Electrick Lala
This is all so dramatic. Why does everyone care so much about what others are wearing?
We care because, like anything else you love, you want to see it done right. There IS a right way and a wrong way to do goth looks, though there are many interpretations of it. There ARE rules, there ARE guidelines, and when those are not met, you cannot and should not call yourself a goth. These new forms of "goth" do not meet these rules and guidelines, therefore, should not be called goth.


But still. It's just what others choose to do. If they wanna make fools of themselves, then let them. If they wanna call themselves goth but not do it right, then jokes on them I say. I just don't see why people are all in a huff about a mutation from a subculture. Yeah it's not really goth, but it's a fad like any other that passes, and to care so much about it is just stupid. You aren't wearing the clothes and they aren't personally affecting you, so don't worry about it.
But it DOES reflect badly on other goths. The same way that people with bad body modifications reflect badly on those of us who have good ones. Any "new face" of something old becomes the first thing that people think of, because it's brand new refreshed in their minds, whether that image is right or wrong, it's still the first thing people think of. I would rather people think the RIGHT things than the wrong things first, and we do that by portraying whatever it is we're doing in the right way. I want people to imagine beautiful tattoos and healthy piercings first and foremost when they think of "body modifications", because then it becomes a positive thing. I don't want them to think of basement prison tattoos, home-done piercings, blown out stretched lobes, and rejecting surface piercings, because that is not what "body modification" is or should be. We do that by setting a good standard and being a good example, and not glorifying bad modifications one little bit. Goth needs to be the same way; it DOES have standards and it does have rules. You can bend some of them to make your own style, but you still have to follow those rules to be considered "goth", otherwise, you're not following the established rules and expectations and therefore cannot don the title. It's not that evolution is the problem, but this kind of evolution is.

So now when people think "goth", they'll see this:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


When they should be seeing this:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

The attitude of nu-goth also really bothers me. Goth as a whole already has a bad reputation for being mean, stuck up, arrogant and rude, and the attitude of nu-goth only reinforces that. The entitlement, the blatant stuck-up-ness, the "gothier-than-thou" turned up nose. I've heard nu-goths say "Other forms of goth aren't real goth. I am real goth." Essentially shitting on the four decades of established goth culture that went before them. They completely ignore the history of goth and are trying to re-write it from scratch, and you CANNOT do that. Not all are that way, I understand, but it's very much a prevailing attitude.

There are also different kinds of goth, there is no "one true" style that is any more "legit" than the rest. However, they all have some common roots, or some base in something quintessentially "goth". Trad goth in the 80's started it all, with big dark hair and dark eye makeup and simple dark clothing. Victorian goth has roots in the Victorian era, obviously, when the occult, funerals, graveyard tours/picnics, and decorative and flamboyant clothing were all the rage. The elegance of the time period is what a lot of people are drawn to. Deathrock has roots more into the puck side of goth, looking as though someone has just risen from the dead, torn clothes, crazy hair, B-horror movie themes, zombies, the works.

Nu-goth is all about trendy fashions. Runways. Big names and labels. Goth is so much more than JUST fashions, and that's all nu-goth focuses on. There is a reason goth is a "subCULTURE" because there is an entire culture that surrounds it that has developed over the last 40 some odd years. Nu-goth is the new kid on the block, it has to earn it's place in the goth world, has to prove itself, has to contribute something as a whole to the goth community. Otherwise, it's just "dark fashion-core".
Heads Will Roll's avatar

Distinct Vampire

Bring back 80's goth/new wave j.s hahahah

But ok, the video isn't loading for me or you took it out of the post but at first when Nu Goth came in I was ok but now it's just been ruined by the internet. Now this whole thing of Pastel Goth... puh-leaaaaaaase. :/ Everyone and their grandma who wear crosses and dye their hair different colours think of themselves as goths.

But whatever, do whatever makes you happy.
Sexts's avatar

Tipsy Kitten

Yeah, I'm not even gonna watch that. I'm a follower of pastel goth. As in someone who was a goth beforehand, and decided that I like adding a little colour into the mix. I'm not following a fad so this is kind of insulting, I also know others who aren't. I'm going to make a video stating why it's bullshit to put people down over a style, because well, it is. If you don't like it then just get over it. I've had the biggest hate for the style I adopted, but you know what, I'm comfortable. I'm sure other people are too. Then there are the girls who are too afraid to try it because of the hate and the fact people say it doesn't exist. It clearly does exist, a lot of people are latching onto it and a lot of retailers have noticed this too. I think people just need to accept change and get over it, you don't HAVE to be a part of it or even know about it. Especially since it's tumblr based, you can simply get tumblr saviour and block all posts with "pastel goth" in it. The complaining is honestly very dumb, too. I'd expect other people who have an alternative fashion to be accepting but a lot of people are being total dicks, especially some of the "real goths" which rage over it. As I said I believe it should be left alone. If it's a fad then it'll be over soon, yes? So be secure in that fact, don't spam the tag or the followers of the style with hate, and don't even think about it. I don't see why people bother.

That's based at everyone who dislikes it to be honest.
Sexts's avatar

Tipsy Kitten

Oh and goths have a reputation for being mean and stuck up because a majority of you are? I wouldn't say this before, but after what I've experienced with goths I must say it put me way off ever wanting to call myself goth again. I don't even really like to call myself pastel goth - as in all honesty the name is a trouble causer. Perhaps if you were all a little more relaxed this wouldn't be a problem, a "subculture" would not damage you in any way. Also there have been other styles with the word goth in that have gone unmentioned. How about cyber goth, bubble goth and gothic lolita? These are not traditional goth styles but have somehow been accepted or unnoticed. I get that a bunch of hipsters are clinging to the fashion right now, and I understand how that can be unappealing but a lot of girls do take the fashion seriously. I just wish the whole feud would go away. I also wish the "bad" side of pastel goth would disappear, they are the ones who really caused the trouble.
Jagger-Wolf
Electrick Lala
Jagger-Wolf
Electrick Lala
This is all so dramatic. Why does everyone care so much about what others are wearing?
We care because, like anything else you love, you want to see it done right. There IS a right way and a wrong way to do goth looks, though there are many interpretations of it. There ARE rules, there ARE guidelines, and when those are not met, you cannot and should not call yourself a goth. These new forms of "goth" do not meet these rules and guidelines, therefore, should not be called goth.


But still. It's just what others choose to do. If they wanna make fools of themselves, then let them. If they wanna call themselves goth but not do it right, then jokes on them I say. I just don't see why people are all in a huff about a mutation from a subculture. Yeah it's not really goth, but it's a fad like any other that passes, and to care so much about it is just stupid. You aren't wearing the clothes and they aren't personally affecting you, so don't worry about it.
But it DOES reflect badly on other goths. The same way that people with bad body modifications reflect badly on those of us who have good ones. Any "new face" of something old becomes the first thing that people think of, because it's brand new refreshed in their minds, whether that image is right or wrong, it's still the first thing people think of. I would rather people think the RIGHT things than the wrong things first, and we do that by portraying whatever it is we're doing in the right way. I want people to imagine beautiful tattoos and healthy piercings first and foremost when they think of "body modifications", because then it becomes a positive thing. I don't want them to think of basement prison tattoos, home-done piercings, blown out stretched lobes, and rejecting surface piercings, because that is not what "body modification" is or should be. We do that by setting a good standard and being a good example, and not glorifying bad modifications one little bit. Goth needs to be the same way; it DOES have standards and it does have rules. You can bend some of them to make your own style, but you still have to follow those rules to be considered "goth", otherwise, you're not following the established rules and expectations and therefore cannot don the title. It's not that evolution is the problem, but this kind of evolution is.

So now when people think "goth", they'll see this:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.


When they should be seeing this:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

The attitude of nu-goth also really bothers me. Goth as a whole already has a bad reputation for being mean, stuck up, arrogant and rude, and the attitude of nu-goth only reinforces that. The entitlement, the blatant stuck-up-ness, the "gothier-than-thou" turned up nose. I've heard nu-goths say "Other forms of goth aren't real goth. I am real goth." Essentially shitting on the four decades of established goth culture that went before them. They completely ignore the history of goth and are trying to re-write it from scratch, and you CANNOT do that. Not all are that way, I understand, but it's very much a prevailing attitude.

There are also different kinds of goth, there is no "one true" style that is any more "legit" than the rest. However, they all have some common roots, or some base in something quintessentially "goth". Trad goth in the 80's started it all, with big dark hair and dark eye makeup and simple dark clothing. Victorian goth has roots in the Victorian era, obviously, when the occult, funerals, graveyard tours/picnics, and decorative and flamboyant clothing were all the rage. The elegance of the time period is what a lot of people are drawn to. Deathrock has roots more into the puck side of goth, looking as though someone has just risen from the dead, torn clothes, crazy hair, B-horror movie themes, zombies, the works.

Nu-goth is all about trendy fashions. Runways. Big names and labels. Goth is so much more than JUST fashions, and that's all nu-goth focuses on. There is a reason goth is a "subCULTURE" because there is an entire culture that surrounds it that has developed over the last 40 some odd years. Nu-goth is the new kid on the block, it has to earn it's place in the goth world, has to prove itself, has to contribute something as a whole to the goth community. Otherwise, it's just "dark fashion-core".
i didnt read all the writing.. but horrible XC them pics.. wow man wow.. i dont care if ppl wanna dress in whatever way.. as long as its not like whores but i just dont like when they call their crap like that goth
Jagger-Wolf's avatar

Eloquent Vampire

Sexts
Oh and goths have a reputation for being mean and stuck up because a majority of you are? I wouldn't say this before, but after what I've experienced with goths I must say it put me way off ever wanting to call myself goth again. I don't even really like to call myself pastel goth - as in all honesty the name is a trouble causer. Perhaps if you were all a little more relaxed this wouldn't be a problem, a "subculture" would not damage you in any way. Also there have been other styles with the word goth in that have gone unmentioned. How about cyber goth, bubble goth and gothic lolita? These are not traditional goth styles but have somehow been accepted or unnoticed. I get that a bunch of hipsters are clinging to the fashion right now, and I understand how that can be unappealing but a lot of girls do take the fashion seriously. I just wish the whole feud would go away. I also wish the "bad" side of pastel goth would disappear, they are the ones who really caused the trouble.
Gothic lolita is a type of lolita, not goth. We're discussing western forms of goth. There are different rules to follow for lolita, and a lot of goths don't consider Gothlic lolita a type of western goth because it has different rules and doesn't have a style or form of music to follow (as far as I'm aware). Just as there is a type of "gothic Visual kei", I forget what it's actually called, that is also not considered a type of goth. They are something else and should be discussed separately.

Bubble goth was started by a musician called Kerli. The media gave her the name, she even admits to this, but she decided to run with it anyway. She is also heavily influenced by Asian styles and most of her outfits and show-wear is DIY. There is a culture that surrounds Kerli, called "Moonchild", with the three gems or dots on her face indicating those in the "culture". I enjoy her music, but I don't consider her, or her music, goth in the slightest. Some of her outfits may have a slight gothy-feel, but that's about it. There is nothing constant about her that I'd consider goth.

Cyber goth is an established and recognized part of western goth culture, this has not been argued. I just don't really think of it because it's not one of my favorite styles. A lot of goths don't like it for several reasons, but for me, it just doesn't appeal to me much. Not my flavor.

It is true that goths have a bad reputation, but it's an old reputation that refuses to die because it was established so long ago, and reinforced by the media and early goths. Most of them were angry, were different, and tried to establish themselves as different. They were used to being picked on and attacked, and with that comes some animosity toward the world. The elitism in goth comes from the fact that they want to keep it their own, not just anyone should be able to wear dark clothes, rat up their hair, and call themselves "goth" just because they're having a bad day, or what to do it for the fashion aspect of it. It's a bit of an insult to those who've based a lifestyle around it. That's where the frustration comes from, that's where the "wanting to keep it pure" comes from. I don't see a problem with it, so long as that frustration and anger is channeled properly and not just lashed out at any innocent bystander or unknowing newbie who just hasn't had that right guidance.

Current goths, elder and younger, are trying to change the current attitude by not being stuck up jerks anymore, by proving that goth does not reinforce negative behavior like drug use and self-harm, which is why the emo trend also reflected badly on goth, at least somewhat. People saw anyone with even the slightest bit of a darker style, and immediately called them emo because that was the only think they recognized as a dark style. I once corrected someone "No, I'm a goth actually." and they had NO idea what I was talking about. This person was my age, perhaps a bit older, so it wasn't like they hadn't been around long enough to not be exposed to older styles, but the fact that goth wasn't even considered in the judging process was a bit disheartening. Goth has been around much longer than emo, emo actually stole a lot of it's styling after what we've come to call the "mopey goth" sub-style, and it will continue to live on long after emo finally dies out. It's just a matter of time. Notice how they're only called "emo kids", and not "emo twenty-somethings" or "emo adults"? Because emo is basically a high school style. Once the school days are over, you either get over it or move into a better dark style, like a type of goth. Emo has become the new "starter goth" rather than big Tripp pants "mall goth", like it was in my school days.

To be perfectly blunt, I don't understand how people are not understanding why goths are upset with the nu- and pastel-goth trends. I think I've done a good job explaining at least why I'm upset about it, but no one seems to be understanding. What they wear doesn't necessarily affect my life negatively directly, this is true, but they DO reflect negatively on my subculture as a whole. Just the same as badly tattooed and pierced people don't necessarily reflect badly on me personally, they DO reflect badly on my modified community as a whole. They are not doing anything to improve the image of goth at all, they are dragging it down further while the rest of us fight so hard to try to bring it back up. This goes beyond fashion choices anymore, it's an attitude thing. They are not "better goths" because they're newer on the trendy aspect of it. They are not "truer goths" because they're meaner and more hipster influenced. They accuse other forms of goth as being "outdated or not-genuine" and that infuriates me. Clothes are superficial and can be changed at the drop of a hat, it's harder to change perceptions and personalities, and that's at the core of what we're trying to do: Preserve our fashions, preserve our image, and preserve our culture. Nu- and pastel-goths are basically shitting on 40 some odd years of established culture just because they refuse to acknowledge, study, and appreciate the history and they're only in it for the "fashion".

You have to earn your right to call yourself a goth. Nu- and pastel have not done this yet, so no, I do not and probably never will consider it a type of goth. They stole the name, shat on it, and are not upset that established goths don't like them? I wonder why.
Sweet Peppermint Tea's avatar

Devoted Bibliophile

10,650 Points
  • Survivor 150
  • Battle: Cleric 100
  • Trick or Treat 100
Fluffie Kittie
I dress like what many may call a "pastel goth" or a "nu goth" but I listen to a lot of goth music and i know gothic history. Labels are labels. If someone wishes to call themselves goth, then so be it.


yum_tea So to further elaborate on Jagger's apple juice analogy, if I take the label off of a jug of apple juice and put an orange juice label on it, does that change the apple juice into orange juice? Or is it still apple juice?

If you call badly coordinated decora "pastel goth," does that make it goth, or is it still badly coordinated decora?
Sweet Peppermint Tea
Fluffie Kittie
I dress like what many may call a "pastel goth" or a "nu goth" but I listen to a lot of goth music and i know gothic history. Labels are labels. If someone wishes to call themselves goth, then so be it.


yum_tea So to further elaborate on Jagger's apple juice analogy, if I take the label off of a jug of apple juice and put an orange juice label on it, does that change the apple juice into orange juice? Or is it still apple juice?

If you call badly coordinated decora "pastel goth," does that make it goth, or is it still badly coordinated decora?

The way i was thinking of it didn't cover many people. Yes, then it is badly coordinated decora.
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Celestial Capricorn
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Yes obviously people can say whatever the hell and do whatever the hell but still, goth is goth and those new fads arnt actual goth no matter how many times people say it is...
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Yes obviously people can say whatever the hell and do whatever the hell but still, goth is goth and those new fads arnt actual goth no matter how many times people say it is...

What is actually Goth?
Goth originated from Punk, so it's not emotional suicidal bitches who think they're gruesome little ********.
Celestial Capricorn
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Yes obviously people can say whatever the hell and do whatever the hell but still, goth is goth and those new fads arnt actual goth no matter how many times people say it is...

What is actually Goth?
Goth originated from Punk, so it's not emotional suicidal bitches who think they're gruesome little ******** never said goths were emos, just use your own judgment....
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Yes obviously people can say whatever the hell and do whatever the hell but still, goth is goth and those new fads arnt actual goth no matter how many times people say it is...

What is actually Goth?
Goth originated from Punk, so it's not emotional suicidal bitches who think they're gruesome little ******** never said goths were emos, just use your own judgment....

People portray 'Goths' as gruesome emos, I asked what is actually a Goth.
You did not answer my question, therefore what you mentioned before is useless.
Celestial Capricorn
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
The 14th Chevalier
Celestial Capricorn
Why do people label themselves and get offended if someone puts a new twist on their style?
Just because you may not like that particular style, doesn't mean you should bash them.

There are many different styles of 'Goth', some are pastel like while others are dark. Why does it matter on how some people portray that stereotype? It's a stereotype, people aren't going to act the same way if they have the same style of clothes.
Yes obviously people can say whatever the hell and do whatever the hell but still, goth is goth and those new fads arnt actual goth no matter how many times people say it is...

What is actually Goth?
Goth originated from Punk, so it's not emotional suicidal bitches who think they're gruesome little ******** never said goths were emos, just use your own judgment....

People portray 'Goths' as gruesome emos, I asked what is actually a Goth.
You did not answer my question, therefore what you mentioned before is useless.
I don't care to even answer that anymore, apparently you have your own opinion on it. My judgement would only offend people and have them tell me I'm wrong. I don't care. Lets just go with 'I don't know s**t.' xd
I'm sick of people sending me a ******** novel as a reply, get to the ******** point I don't care to know your life story or whatever the ******** else endless ramblings.

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games