Vegans and Vetertarians.

[digivixx]

Abstract Nonsense

digivixx

hwoarang99

We are superior to all animals

Sweet like candy to my soul

This is actually one of the biggest myths of civilized society.
Most people believe they are superior to all other organisms because they're exposed to the belief that an all-powerful being placed them on this planet with the purpose to rule it.
This is why most societies feel no remorse when cutting down forests or destroying natural habitats. Humans feel privileged, and this feeling has led to most of the destruction of our planet.

Humans are not superior to animals.
We have a higher intellect, but that does not constitute superiority.

We can not build a dam with as much precision in as little time with no tools as a beaver can.
We do not have the agility to scale large trees with accurate balance in seconds.
We can not build entire underground cities in days using only our hands.
We can not hold our breath under water for more than a few minutes.
We can not smell a dangerous predator who is 100 yards away.
We have no ability to see clearly in the dark.
We can not walk within minutes of our birth.
We can not run as quick as a cheetah.
We do not have radar hearing.

I think you get the point.
Superiority is subjective.

Sweet you rock and sweet you roll.

Or irrelevant if you base your ethical system off of sapience instead of sentience.

Sweet like candy to my soul

Very true.
Also kudos for using both of those words in the same sentence correctly. They are often misunderstood.
They sound good together though.

Sweet you rock and sweet you roll.

[deathpixie]

SBcat

Very random obscure question: Does eating less meat reduce sex drive?

xp

Hell no. wink

[Dread and Freedom]

digivixx

Also kudos for using both of those words in the same sentence correctly. They are often misunderstood.
They sound good together though.

Sweet you rock and sweet you roll.

They certainly do. I don't remember when I found out the difference between the two, I think it was actually when I first decided that I liked eating meat and wouldn't stop. An unfortunate consequence, depending on who you are, of that ethical system though is that you can kill severely retarded children justifiably.

[Crazy Bowie Girl]

I'm all for P.E.T.A.!

People Eating Tasty Animals! biggrin

In fact, there's room for all God's creatures right next to the mashed potatoes!

Actually, if you really think about it, the killing doesn't stop when your a vegetarian, sure you're not eating any of the animals that are being slaughtered everyday to feed the rest of us carnavoristic monsters. However, think about that poor apple or pear or whatever fruit or veggie you're eating. Plants are alive because they photosynthesize, grow, require specific environments in order to survive and they even reproduce! Therefore, veggies are alive.... at least they are until you pluck the helpless fruit from the tree or vine or whatever the case may be! Then the poor defenceless plant dies instantly!

As for not eating eggs and drinking milk or whatnot of the sort. The eggs that are being sold to us DO NOT have a baby chick inside. The rooster did not have his fun with the hens therefore you don't kill anything. CHICKENS EAT THEIR OWN KIND FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!

Therefore... I eat fish! ^^ I'm a mermaid after all. ^^ heart

[Illicit Expressions]

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

Animals evolve not for their benefit, but in response to environmental factors. Rather, they are shaped by what is advantageous for their survival through natural selection.

Is that not benefiting them? They evolve so that they can survive.

Shadow_Prowler

The cow has been shaped by what is advantageous for his survival as a species. We care for it, provide it with food, protect it from predators, inoculate it to diseases, etc. If it weren't for these advantages, it would never have found a niche with us. Realistically, both species are benefiting.

If a species cannot survive on its own they go extinct. We are forcing them to survive. Without us, they probably wouldn't. I don't see us modifying cows for their survival as a species for the sole purpose of consumption as them benefiting. Who wants to be bred into a life of slavery?

Shadow_Prowler

I do consider a dorito less natural than a steak. It's manufactured. You could say we manufactured the animal, but the entire process it went through to become the way it is really isn't something you couldn't see happening in the natural world. The dorito requires fossil fuels, the breakdown and rearrangement of molecules for artificial flavoring, machinery, and a ton of other stuff to make it the way it is. I wouldn't say one is completely natural and the other completely isn't, but I do see one as being more more natural than the other. Plus meat, in general, is something you can find in the natural world without any human manufacturing. Potato chips aren't.

But it was made by humans and humans are a part of nature. Fossil fuels are a part of nature. Molecules are a part of nature. Rearranging them to create something is no different from modifying genes of animals. If you consider a dorito artificial, you have to consider a cow as the same level of artificial as well.

Shadow_Prowler

Plus meat, in general, is something you can find in the natural world without any human manufacturing. Potato chips aren't.

But not the kind of meat most of the world actually eats.
The kind of meat you find in the natural world is much different than the kind that we breed.

Shadow_Prowler

If you support the extinction of domestic animals, then you should be out there trying to exterminate every cat and dog you find. What you're doing right now is trying to help them. When you have a child that you can not handle, the answer is not to exterminate it. What you do is own up to it and try to take care of it in the best way possible (technically you could give it up for adoption but there is no other species out there to take care of domestic animals). We need to grow up and take responsibility for the other animals out there who depend on us. Not destroy them all as 'mistakes'.

That is pretty much what I said. Just killing all the animals we created is unethical. Spaying and neutering them, putting an end to breeding them and instead adopting and rescuing them is the responsible thing to do. We have to take care of them until every last one of them has lived out their lives to the fullest, ensuring that no more are bred. It is not killing them all and destroying the evidence. It is cleaning up our mess in the most ethical way.

They survive as a species with us. It does benefit the species to be with us. Thanks to human intervention, many domesticated species are some of the most widespread and successful ones ever to exist on the planet.


NO species survives on it's own. Just about every species exists in a framework with many other species, environmental conditions, etc. Many species would not continue to exist without another specific one there. Domesticated animals happen to fit that description. We are also not forcing cows to survive. If our interference did not benefit the cow to some extent, they would have died out ages ago. We do care for them, though. If reliance on another species is slavery, then we are ALL born into slavery.


We do not modify genes of animals. We select animals with the traits we like. Those traits are advantageous in this environment with humans, so those animals live on. If an animal prefers a specific type of fruit, that plant's seeds will likely be passed on and it will prosper over another. They aren't really that different. It's the same method. I don't see why I have to consider a living cow whose traits were selected for it's environment to have the same level of artificiality as processed food. wink


The meat we get from domestic animals isn't much different at all from the meat we get from wild animals. The main differences have to do with antibiotics and stuff put in the meat of feedlot animals, but this does not occur in all domesticated animals. Besides, to some extent, meat is meat.


I consider slaughtering every last animal out there simply for the sake of wiping that species off the face of this planet to be different than killing animals for food. Instead of rescuing animals, you should devote your money and effort to spaying and neutering every last one if you wish to do it that way. I just don't think domesticated animals are a mess that needs to be cleaned up. People don't always treat each other right either, but most people aren't calling for forced sterilization for every human out there. Animals in the wild suffer and use each other for their own selfish gains, but people don't use that to advocate wiping out all life on this planet.

[deathpixie]

Crazy Bowie Girl

I'm all for P.E.T.A.!

People Eating Tasty Animals! biggrin

In fact, there's room for all God's creatures right next to the mashed potatoes!

Har har, no one has ever made those jokes before. I *never* hear that one about fifty times a day. I congratulate you for your originality.

Crazy Bowie Girl

Actually, if you really think about it, the killing doesn't stop when your a vegetarian, sure you're not eating any of the animals that are being slaughtered everyday to feed the rest of us carnavoristic monsters. However, think about that poor apple or pear or whatever fruit or veggie you're eating. Plants are alive because they photosynthesize, grow, require specific environments in order to survive and they even reproduce! Therefore, veggies are alive.... at least they are until you pluck the helpless fruit from the tree or vine or whatever the case may be! Then the poor defenceless plant dies instantly!

As for not eating eggs and drinking milk or whatnot of the sort. The eggs that are being sold to us DO NOT have a baby chick inside. The rooster did not have his fun with the hens therefore you don't kill anything. CHICKENS EAT THEIR OWN KIND FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! THEY DON'T CARE!!!!!!!!

Therefore... I eat fish! ^^ I'm a mermaid after all. ^^ heart

In order for a cow to produce milk, she has to become pregnant. Where do you think the baby cow goes? If it is a female calf, she is forced into a life of slavery just like her mother. If it is a male calf, he is turned into veal. Once milk cows are exhausted from constantly being impregnated and forced to more produce milk than they would naturally, they are then taken to the slaughterhouse. There is a little bit of veal in ever glass of milk. As well as puss from the milk cows infected nipples.
Laying hens have to be bred. Not all chickens that are born turn out to be females. Males have no monetary value in the egg industry, so what do you think happens to them?

If you really believe that plants have a central nervous system (which they don't) and can feel pain -if you are really so concerned- a vegan diet is still the most sensible, since more plants are killed for feeding livestock than for people. Those crops that people are destroying the rain forests for? Most of those are for cattle.

[Jazzberry]

It's not worth it to me. If someone else feels like giving up meat/animal products, more power to them. But I don't know many vegan recipes, so they probably won't be coming to my house for dinner. 3nodding

[Crazy Bowie Girl]

Quote:

In order for a cow to produce milk, she has to become pregnant. Where do you think the baby cow goes? If it is a female calf, she is forced into a life of slavery just like her mother. If it is a male calf, he is turned into veal. Once milk cows are exhausted from constantly being impregnated and forced to more produce milk than they would naturally, they are then taken to the slaughterhouse. There is a little bit of veal in ever glass of milk. As well as puss from the milk cows infected nipples.
Laying hens have to be bred. Not all chickens that are born turn out to be females. Males have no monetary value in the egg industry, so what do you think happens to them?

If you really believe that plants have a central nervous system (which they don't) and can feel pain -if you are really so concerned- a vegan diet is still the most sensible, since more plants are killed for feeding livestock than for people. Those crops that people are destroying the rain forests for? Most of those are for cattle.

***
You're absolutely right, it is totally slavery for those poor cattle to spend all day forced to eat grass! And have sex!! How dare we awful human monsters that we are even consider such treatment! No instead we should free them so they could... eat grass and have sex out of their own free will! Better yet it'll make them more readily available to the wolves, cougars, and other predators that are not human. In fact! Let us have emancipation proclamation for cows and chickens and other livestock so they could get jobs! They could sell insurance! Hey the Aflac duck can do it, why not a cow or a chicken.

Meanwhile, the rest will have to give them jobs or it would be discrimination in the workforce. Heaven forbid we want to stop a chicken from doing surgery! As for humans, in order to get the needed protein, we will have to resort to sucking down supplements and eating human babies! Yes, we should all just convert to vegan ism and vegetarianism. Plus, I didn't know you needed to have a nervous system to be considered alive. Does that mean those of mental retardation are not alive either; they sure fooled me.

[deathpixie]

Shadow_Prowler

We do not modify genes of animals. We select animals with the traits we like. Those traits are advantageous in this environment with humans, so those animals live on. If an animal prefers a specific type of fruit, that plant's seeds will likely be passed on and it will prosper over another. They aren't really that different. It's the same method. I don't see why I have to consider a living cow whose traits were selected for it's environment to have the same level of artificiality as processed food. wink

Because humans were behind them both. If you call one unnatural, you have to call the other unnatural as well.

Shadow_Prowler

They survive as a species with us. It does benefit the species to be with us. Thanks to human intervention, many domesticated species are some of the most widespread and successful ones ever to exist on the planet.

Look, I have already said this. Keeping a species alive to essentially be our slaves is not benefiting them. It is not doing them a favor. No one breeds a cow so that they can have a happy life grazing fields. They raise them to eat them. They have no other purpose than this. That is not something they would thank us for.

Shadow_Prowler

NO species survives on it's own. Just about every species exists in a framework with many other species, environmental conditions, etc. Many species would not continue to exist without another specific one there. Domesticated animals happen to fit that description. We are also not forcing cows to survive. If our interference did not benefit the cow to some extent, they would have died out ages ago. We do care for them, though. If reliance on another species is slavery, then we are ALL born into slavery.

All species need another species in order to survive. I agree with this. So, cows need humans to survive. Who needs the cow to survive? What purpose do domesticated animals serve in the ecosystem?

Shadow_Prowler

The meat we get from domestic animals isn't much different at all from the meat we get from wild animals. The main differences have to do with antibiotics and stuff put in the meat of feedlot animals, but this does not occur in all domesticated animals. Besides, to some extent, meat is meat.

Except for the fact that this meat was bred in captivity. A majority of the meat consumed IS from animals who are purposely fattened up and pumped full of antibiotics and hormones. All of these things pumped into the animals are not benefiting anyone other than the deep pockets of those running the animal agriculture business.

Shadow_Prowler

I consider slaughtering every last animal out there simply for the sake of wiping that species off the face of this planet to be different than killing animals for food. Instead of rescuing animals, you should devote your money and effort to spaying and neutering every last one if you wish to do it that way. I just don't think domesticated animals are a mess that needs to be cleaned up.

You really need to visit your local animal shelter and ask them how many animals they house and how many a day they have to turn away or euthanize if you do not think we have made a mess of domesticated animals.
I do devote time and effort to spaying and neutering stray animals. Continuing to breed them is unethical. However, just releasing them into the wild and saying "Good luck" is just as unethical. We bred them to live in our homes with us and we have to consider giving them loving homes to live out their lives in our duty to them until they are all gone.

Shadow_Prowler

People don't always treat each other right either, but most people aren't calling for forced sterilization for every human out there.

Not for every human, no, but for those certain individuals. This is called the death penalty. Anyway, I fail to see your point.

Shadow_Prowler

Animals in the wild suffer and use each other for their own selfish gains, but people don't use that to advocate wiping out all life on this planet.

Yeah, like how when an animal kills another animal for survival, people say "Oh, it's nature." When a human hunts and kills an animal for sport people say "Oh, it's controlling the population, its all a part of nature." Then, when a bear kills a human because the human gets too close, or a lion in a zoo mauls some people, or a stingray stabs someone in the chest with their barbed tail and kills them, we all become enraged and call for that animal to be killed.

[Feminist Barbie]

I like meat, but I don't eat hamburger most of the time, mainly because the smell of it cooking makes me a little sick. I've never tried veal, doubt I will. I try not to eat steak, it's just to creepy that it's pink on the inside. I don't like eggs but every now and than (maybe once a year) I'll have it on a pick of toast. I don't eat deer, or moose or bison. It tastes funny and not in the cannibal eating a clown way. Yummy is the pig, pork chops, bacon, ham, but not pork rinds if you could call that meat. Yummy chicken, whole or in pieces as long as I don't have to fish them out of a whole tube of blood water, like back when I worked at 7-11. Speaking of fish, they is tasty but I'm the type that likes to catch, than pull it out of the water and well it's trying to breath and get back home, I bean it over the head a few times. Than you have to skin and gut it. Making your own batter and frying it up.

My baby sisters first fish stayed alive till we got back to grandmas place and my dad had to skin it alive. It was trying to breath and move, well my dad used the knife to slice it's skin off.

I can't help but wonder what would a city vegan do if they were suddenly ripped from their homes and plopped down in the middle of nature (Northern North America) with no humans for a few years. Honestly what would you do? How many humans (any diet) in modern society know how to live through that?

[deathpixie]

Crazy Bowie Girl

You're absolutely right, it is totally slavery for those poor cattle to spend all day forced to eat grass! And have sex!! How dare we awful human monsters that we are even consider such treatment! No instead we should free them so they could... eat grass and have sex out of their own free will! Better yet it'll make them more readily available to the wolves, cougars, and other predators that are not human. In fact! Let us have emancipation proclamation for cows and chickens and other livestock so they could get jobs! They could sell insurance! Hey the Aflac duck can do it, why not a cow or a chicken.

Meanwhile, the rest will have to give them jobs or it would be discrimination in the workforce. Heaven forbid we want to stop a chicken from doing surgery! As for humans, in order to get the needed protein, we will have to resort to sucking down supplements and eating human babies! Yes, we should all just convert to vegan ism and vegetarianism. Plus, I didn't know you needed to have a nervous system to be considered alive. Does that mean those of mental retardation are not alive either; they sure fooled me.

I'm sorry, but I only have time to argue with people who are rational. You obviously have not read a single thing anyone has said in this thread.

[-cahiers-de-doleances-]

Quote:

You're absolutely right, it is totally slavery for those poor cattle to spend all day forced to eat grass! And have sex!! How dare we awful human monsters that we are even consider such treatment! No instead we should free them so they could... eat grass and have sex out of their own free will! Better yet it'll make them more readily available to the wolves, cougars, and other predators that are not human. In fact! Let us have emancipation proclamation for cows and chickens and other livestock so they could get jobs! They could sell insurance! Hey the Aflac duck can do it, why not a cow or a chicken.

Meanwhile, the rest will have to give them jobs or it would be discrimination in the workforce. Heaven forbid we want to stop a chicken from doing surgery! As for humans, in order to get the needed protein, we will have to resort to sucking down supplements and eating human babies! Yes, we should all just convert to vegan ism and vegetarianism. Plus, I didn't know you needed to have a nervous system to be considered alive. Does that mean those of mental retardation are not alive either; they sure fooled me.

First of all:
Mentally retarded people aren't missing their nervous system.
Now:
Plants, as far as we know don't feel pain in the same way as animals do, yes, we are still killing the plants, but considering that they grow freely, and are not tortured, I think eating them is a-ok.
Cows, chickens, pigs, and all the other animals on this planet do, however.
Don't just sit back ignorantly and think "oh they just roam and eat grass and have wonderful sex all the time" because that's not what happens.
Cows don't get to have sex, they are artificially inseminated. Sex for cows isn't even pleasurable.
So, that's out of the way.
Also, you know mad cow disease? That's when a cow eats other cow parts. You know why your steak is so big and juicy? That's all the hormones pumped into them.
Don't be stupid, okay? We don't expect cows to get jobs. But how about a life where they can live freely. And if a cougar or a bear eats them, well, hell! That is an animal that doesn't eat anything but mean, that's nature.
But people can easily, and happily live their whole lives on a vegetarian or vegan diet.
You eat meat for the taste.
You are promoting the genocide of an entire species of animals by eating meat.
Just think of it this way: When people are treated this way it's called a holocaust.

[Enigmatic Phantasm]

deathpixie

Crazy Bowie Girl

You're absolutely right, it is totally slavery for those poor cattle to spend all day forced to eat grass! And have sex!! How dare we awful human monsters that we are even consider such treatment! No instead we should free them so they could... eat grass and have sex out of their own free will! Better yet it'll make them more readily available to the wolves, cougars, and other predators that are not human. In fact! Let us have emancipation proclamation for cows and chickens and other livestock so they could get jobs! They could sell insurance! Hey the Aflac duck can do it, why not a cow or a chicken.

Meanwhile, the rest will have to give them jobs or it would be discrimination in the workforce. Heaven forbid we want to stop a chicken from doing surgery! As for humans, in order to get the needed protein, we will have to resort to sucking down supplements and eating human babies! Yes, we should all just convert to vegan ism and vegetarianism. Plus, I didn't know you needed to have a nervous system to be considered alive. Does that mean those of mental retardation are not alive either; they sure fooled me.

I'm sorry, but I only have time to argue with people who are rational. You obviously have not read a single thing anyone has said in this thread.

To me her post reeks of sarcasm.

Settle down and loosen up. ;3

[Paigies]

I'm a vegetarian, and I will probably go vegan when I move out or start having my own income. I actually like soymilk, it's pretty tasty.

However, I'm completely fine with omnivores, it's a right to eat meat. I'm not going to be an a**hole by trying to take away that right. All I ask is that omnivores don't wave a bloody steak in my face saying 'Mmmm, yummy, huh???'.
Then I'd probably snap.
Not by eating the steak, but by going PETA-commando on them. ^.^