Vegans and Vetertarians.

[JaddziaDax]

No I think people do mean to kill critters that get into crop farms... Extermination is intentional.

[Blue_Cherokee]

I've been a vegetarian for about 7 years now. I personally don't enjoy eating meat at all and I began to feel guilt for the animals especially when I realized I could get my protein in other ways. I'm not one to believe that everyone should become a vegetarian simply because that is what I believe is right and I can understand than many others enjoy it.
Perhaps, instead (if you prefer meat so much) you could just stay away from it during a meal or two each week. I hope you feel that suggestion might work.

smile

[deathpixie]

JaddziaDax

No I think people do mean to kill critters that get into crop farms... Extermination is intentional.

Read what I said, please. The part about buying locally from small farms who DO NOT use pesticides. I believe that all vegans should do this if the option is available to them.

[Illicit Expressions]

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

Organic food can be just as bad as the others. Shop local. Actually tour and look at how the animals are kept. Be an informed consumer and don't just buy into the 'if I change my lifestyle this way then animals won't suffer,' hype. That's kind of an easy way out. The preparation of vegan and vegetarian foods cause animal deaths and suffering too.

Yeah, some things can still be called organic yet still be factory farmed. Ask Wal-mart and Horizon.

However, the difference in animals dying while harvesting crops is that it is not intentional, and it still doesn't even approach the numbers of intentional animal deaths in the animal agriculture business. Cows raised on "humane" farms still get sent to the slaughterhouse, and there is nothing humane about a slaughterhouse.

It may not be intentional, but it still happens and nothing is done about it. Saying it doesn't count is like knowing you're going to hit a child, but closing your eyes so you weren't technically in control of the car at the time. Those animals still die so you can live. That child still died by your hand.

Comparing amounts is difficult and depends on where you draw the line. If you count all the animals that die during harvesting, every animal and bug killed by pesticides, all the animals killed to keep from getting into crops, and animals that suffer and die from habitat loss so that the crops can be grown, you very well might get larger numbers of losses.

As for slaughterhouses, the treatment of the animals can vary depending on the slaughterhouses. They aren't all run by the same people. If you want to see how sanitary and humane one is, tour it. Many animals don't have to be killed in slaughterhouses too so you can still easily eat meat and just cut beef out of your diet if you don't agree with any of them.

I'm not saying it's ok that these animals die just because we don't mean to kill them. I really wish they didn't die. This is why I buy locally from organic farmers and community gardens who don't use pesticides and go out of their way to protect the animals that are living among their crops. Eventually, when I am in a permanent location, I intent to grow most of my own produce to ensure especially that no animals are harmed accidentally.

The words "humane" and "slaughter" do not belong together. No matter how "nicely" you do it, no matter how sanitary it is, or if it is done in the animals own farm, you are killing that animal and that is inhumane. These animals do not joyfully line up, clicking their heels saying "Yippee! Oh please, please slaughter me!"

Also, I'm wondering what good you think just cutting out beef is doing? I don't understand the reasoning behind that.

Good for you for buying local. In my eyes that's a lot more important than eating animals or not.

There is a difference between humane slaughter and other kinds. There are much nicer and worse ways to die. Yes, you kill the animal. It's not like the animal would never die anyways, though. I'm looking at quality of life and death and not what time it takes place. They lose a few years, but if it weren't for us they would never have had ANY years. The idea of an early death doesn't bother me the way a cruel one does.

The beef thing was referring to slaughterhouses. Chickens, fish, and pig don't have to be taken to slaughterhouses to be killed. Go to places where they're killed in other ways if you prefer, and watch it being done. We killed all our chickens by hand. They were raised free range. When we killed them they were caught, kept calm, and then quickly killed by an axe to the neck. It took a fraction of a second.

[JaddziaDax]

deathpixie

JaddziaDax

No I think people do mean to kill critters that get into crop farms... Extermination is intentional.

Read what I said, please. The part about buying locally from small farms who DO NOT use pesticides. I believe that all vegans should do this if the option is available to them.

If they are that hardcore about their convictions they should not buy at all and have their own garden. There is no real way to determine weather or not those farms actually do what they say they do just by reading the label.

Unless you live there and watch what they do every single day of every single second. The only real way to be sure of the validity of your food is to grow your own veggies in your own garden, then you have ultimate control over what you eat. But I suppose that comes down to how much you "trust" those farms.

As for animals that get mauled over by harvesting machines and whatnot, those deaths might not have been intentional but at the same time they weren't prevented. It would be the equivalent of "manslaughter" according to some animal rights activists... AND there could be ways to prevent that.

Sure I bet there are even farms out there that don't use heavy machinery that of course is if you trust that they harvest their crops in a "humanely manner". But then you could be bringing in other moral dilemmas such as worker treatment/immigration laws/slave labor (or very under paid labor). But you know what? who cares, they are only flesh eating humans anyways, they had the choice to be there.


Either way as I said before: if you are going to cut meat from your diet don't do it to "save the little furry faces" do it for your health.

[Nobuo_Uematsu_fairy]

JaddziaDax

Nobuo_Uematsu_fairy

JaddziaDax

In the end Carrots and Tomatoes cannot scream or run away not to mention they are still alive when you eat them, and most people prolong their lifespan by putting them in a fridge... People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegitation FTW!

No matter what you eat, SOMETHING has to die.

If you are going to become a Vegan/Vegetarian then do it for "health" reasons.

So if I cut off someone's head and put it in the fridge, it'll live longer?

plants are not like animals, if you stuck your uterus/p***s in water would it live longer? no, but if you stick a rose in water it would O:

no, but if I kept taking in nutrients, I would.
It's still cutting off the nutrient source.

[deathpixie]

JaddziaDax

deathpixie

JaddziaDax

No I think people do mean to kill critters that get into crop farms... Extermination is intentional.

Read what I said, please. The part about buying locally from small farms who DO NOT use pesticides. I believe that all vegans should do this if the option is available to them.

If they are that hardcore about their convictions they should not buy at all and have their own garden. There is no real way to determine weather or not those farms actually do what they say they do just by reading the label.

Unless you live there and watch what they do every single day of every single second. The only real way to be sure of the validity of your food is to grow your own veggies in your own garden, then you have ultimate control over what you eat. But I suppose that comes down to how much you "trust" those farms.

As for animals that get mauled over by harvesting machines and whatnot, those deaths might not have been intentional but at the same time they weren't prevented. It would be the equivalent of "manslaughter" according to some animal rights activists... AND there could be ways to prevent that.

Sure I bet there are even farms out there that don't use heavy machinery that of course is if you trust that they harvest their crops in a "humanely manner". But then you could be bringing in other moral dilemmas such as worker treatment/immigration laws/slave labor (or very under paid labor). But you know what? who cares, they are only flesh eating humans anyways, they had the choice to be there.


Either way as I said before: if you are going to cut meat from your diet don't do it to "save the little furry faces" do it for your health.

Again, read what I said earlier about growing my own produce when I am able to.
And, I personally know the people who grow my produce. I don't have to read any label. There aren't any labels. I just ask them myself. They gave me their word that they do not kill animals they find in their crops and they pick everything by hand. I trust their word. Right now, that is the best I can do. I do not yet have the resources available to me to grow my own produce.

I do not deny that not making an effort to avoid killing these animals during harvesting is equivalent to manslaughter. I am very much against this, which is why I have chosen to buy locally from small farms where I know the provider and their methods and will always encourage others to do so as well.

I do not agree with you that health reasons are the only good reasons to not consume animal products. However, if you don't agree with me on this, you probably never will, so I think we should just agree to disagree on this.

[aistobasbistoc]

We are superior to all animals
it's in our nature to eat them
EAT THEM

[deathpixie]

Shadow_Prowler

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

Organic food can be just as bad as the others. Shop local. Actually tour and look at how the animals are kept. Be an informed consumer and don't just buy into the 'if I change my lifestyle this way then animals won't suffer,' hype. That's kind of an easy way out. The preparation of vegan and vegetarian foods cause animal deaths and suffering too.

Yeah, some things can still be called organic yet still be factory farmed. Ask Wal-mart and Horizon.

However, the difference in animals dying while harvesting crops is that it is not intentional, and it still doesn't even approach the numbers of intentional animal deaths in the animal agriculture business. Cows raised on "humane" farms still get sent to the slaughterhouse, and there is nothing humane about a slaughterhouse.

It may not be intentional, but it still happens and nothing is done about it. Saying it doesn't count is like knowing you're going to hit a child, but closing your eyes so you weren't technically in control of the car at the time. Those animals still die so you can live. That child still died by your hand.

Comparing amounts is difficult and depends on where you draw the line. If you count all the animals that die during harvesting, every animal and bug killed by pesticides, all the animals killed to keep from getting into crops, and animals that suffer and die from habitat loss so that the crops can be grown, you very well might get larger numbers of losses.

As for slaughterhouses, the treatment of the animals can vary depending on the slaughterhouses. They aren't all run by the same people. If you want to see how sanitary and humane one is, tour it. Many animals don't have to be killed in slaughterhouses too so you can still easily eat meat and just cut beef out of your diet if you don't agree with any of them.

I'm not saying it's ok that these animals die just because we don't mean to kill them. I really wish they didn't die. This is why I buy locally from organic farmers and community gardens who don't use pesticides and go out of their way to protect the animals that are living among their crops. Eventually, when I am in a permanent location, I intent to grow most of my own produce to ensure especially that no animals are harmed accidentally.

The words "humane" and "slaughter" do not belong together. No matter how "nicely" you do it, no matter how sanitary it is, or if it is done in the animals own farm, you are killing that animal and that is inhumane. These animals do not joyfully line up, clicking their heels saying "Yippee! Oh please, please slaughter me!"

Also, I'm wondering what good you think just cutting out beef is doing? I don't understand the reasoning behind that.

Good for you for buying local. In my eyes that's a lot more important than eating animals or not.

There is a difference between humane slaughter and other kinds. There are much nicer and worse ways to die. Yes, you kill the animal. It's not like the animal would never die anyways, though. I'm looking at quality of life and death and not what time it takes place. They lose a few years, but if it weren't for us they would never have had ANY years. The idea of an early death doesn't bother me the way a cruel one does.

The beef thing was referring to slaughterhouses. Chickens, fish, and pig don't have to be taken to slaughterhouses to be killed. Go to places where they're killed in other ways if you prefer, and watch it being done. We killed all our chickens by hand. They were raised free range. When we killed them they were caught, kept calm, and then quickly killed by an axe to the neck. It took a fraction of a second.

The only reason we keep the animal is to use it to make a profit. Yes, I would rather the cow or chicken have a good life before they are killed, but I still have a problem with the killing part. Giving an animal a good life before they are killed is not good enough for me. It is still exploiting the animal, and I don't agree with that. Yes, the animal would die anyway of some natural cause, but the difference is that it wouldn't have been raised for the sole purpose of that death.

True, they would not have had any years if not for us. I see that as a good thing. Not living at all is better than living a life entirely for someone else's benefit, having your life end not when your time has come, but when someone else has decided that your time has come.

[Illicit Expressions]

Yes, we are using these animals for our own self-interests. It is not just to make money, though. It's to support our very lives. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. I'd prefer to live a good life and die knowing my body would go to some use. I'd rather that than living a good life and dieing with my body doing no good, even.

To a cow, the grass exists for them to eat. To a wolf, the deer exists for it to kill. This does not diminish the life of the grass or deer to themselves. It's simply how they'll meet their end. I don't see it as being much different with us.

Most things don't decide how they'll die. There are always outside influences deciding when that end is met, whether they are killed for food, or die of cancer, or are killed by a storm. We are simply another outside influence. If it wasn't us, it'd be something else.

[[.My Fabricated Love.]]

Vegans are idiots to the highest degree. I hope they all die of malnutrition.
Seriously, you are cutting out a ton of nutrients that you need. Supplements have animal by-products in them wink
It is not a healthy thing to do to become a vegan, dumbasses. It's incredibly UNHEALTHY. Have you ever seen a fat vegan?
Yeah, that's because they have no ******** PROTEIN. I'm surprised they don't snap in half from lack of calcium..
Oh yeah, and the animals are still suffering. Just because you don't eat the cow doesn't mean the cow doesn't still die. I don't know why the hell people think that being vegan saves the animals.. IT DOESN'T! They're still ******** DEAD, and you look like an a** because your nutritionist is smacking you around the head.

Vegetarians are idiots as well but not to the same degree

Something every last one of you should understand:
WE ARE OMNIVORES.
Do you think that a lion is humane about it when it shreds a gazelle to bits eating it?
NO, it's not humane at all! We need the damn meat. You don't feel all offended when a fox eats a rabbit, so why should I feel bad for the cow that I'm eating?

[deathpixie]

Shadow_Prowler

Yes, we are using these animals for our own self-interests. It is not just to make money, though. It's to support our very lives. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. I'd prefer to live a good life and die knowing my body would go to some use. I'd rather that than living a good life and dieing with my body doing no good, even.

To a cow, the grass exists for them to eat. To a wolf, the deer exists for it to kill. This does not diminish the life of the grass or deer to themselves. It's simply how they'll meet their end. I don't see it as being much different with us.

Most things don't decide how they'll die. There are always outside influences deciding when that end is met, whether they are killed for food, or die of cancer, or are killed by a storm. We are simply another outside influence. If it wasn't us, it'd be something else.

The deer does not exist for the sole purpose of being food for the wolf. Wolves do not raise deer for their consumption. They hunt them as needed for the wolves to survive.
I don't need to eat an animal to survive, so I would rather leave that animal alone to either die of natural causes or to be the food for another animal who does need to eat it to survive.

[Demonic Glee]

I'm a vegetarian since I just don't like thinking about meat. I'm not gonna say that eating meat is wrong or make anyone follow me, it's just something I don't like. It wasn't very hard for me; I'd never been a big meat eater.

[Illicit Expressions]

deathpixie

Shadow_Prowler

Yes, we are using these animals for our own self-interests. It is not just to make money, though. It's to support our very lives. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. I'd prefer to live a good life and die knowing my body would go to some use. I'd rather that than living a good life and dieing with my body doing no good, even.

To a cow, the grass exists for them to eat. To a wolf, the deer exists for it to kill. This does not diminish the life of the grass or deer to themselves. It's simply how they'll meet their end. I don't see it as being much different with us.

Most things don't decide how they'll die. There are always outside influences deciding when that end is met, whether they are killed for food, or die of cancer, or are killed by a storm. We are simply another outside influence. If it wasn't us, it'd be something else.

The deer does not exist for the sole purpose of being food for the wolf. Wolves do not raise deer for their consumption. They hunt them as needed for the wolves to survive.
I don't need to eat an animal to survive, so I would rather leave that animal alone to either die of natural causes or to be the food for another animal who does need to eat it to survive.

That is my point. The deer does not exist for the sole purpose of feeding the wolf. However, in the wolf's mind, that's all it sees. Even though we raise animals for food, that does not mean that is the only way they see their lives. We both feed off the animal to survive, and that is the animal's legacy in death. However, that's not all the animal's life was.

Killing the animal for food is a natural cause. We all need to eat to survive. With pills and processed foods and other unnatural substances, we might manage to live off other things. However, this doesn't mean those of us who do eat meat did not use them for our survival.