Gender Identification

[Reportable]

Not sure if this is the right forum...

Currently having a discussion with a friend about gender identification.

They claim it is not a learned behavior, I claim it is.

Anyone care to discuss?

[Chartreusethewaterdemon]

lol, all this stuff about gender identity today.

I thought I was a girl when I was a little boy blaugh I played with barbies and polly-pockets and I even stole my mom's dolls dresses now and then.

There was absoloutley no influnence on me as to that behavior, no older sisters dressing me up, no effeminate father (ANYTHING but effeminate really) No obsessive mother.

And today, I am completely satisfied with being male, and am more comfortable with being one than I can ever honestly imagine being female.

They have done studies on children raised to be the opposite gender, they more often than not desire to be the gender they originally were, gender identity is definitely made up by the person, not the environment.

You can give a girl all the toy trucks you want, don't mean she'll play with them.

[zaptar13]

I have no idea, I just know my genitals indicate I'm a male.

[-Lo Va Tits-]

no, i dont think it is a learned behavior at all if you grow up knowing that you are the opposite gender or just knowing that something is missing, to quote a cliche You are born that way

Personal experience:
but to just grow up with the same interests as the opposite gender is absolutely different, growing up i was totally a tomboy but i am still a girl and i have no desire to be male nor do i see my self as a stranger in my own body

Advice:
try talking to a transgender person or someone that doesn't identify as either gender

[Desideraht]

Gender identity is a combination of learned behavior AND genetic predisposition, as well as neurology.
You're both right, when you combine your ideas.

[Reportable]

Chartreusethewaterdemon

lol, all this stuff about gender identity today.

I thought I was a girl when I was a little boy blaugh I played with barbies and polly-pockets and I even stole my mom's dolls dresses now and then.

There was absoloutley no influnence on me as to that behavior, no older sisters dressing me up, no effeminate father (ANYTHING but effeminate really) No obsessive mother.

And today, I am completely satisfied with being male, and am more comfortable with being one than I can ever honestly imagine being female.

They have done studies on children raised to be the opposite gender, they more often than not desire to be the gender they originally were, gender identity is definitely made up by the person, not the environment.

You can give a girl all the toy trucks you want, don't mean she'll play with them.

(I realized after my post how much this forum is talking about gender lol)

My sister joined the debate with my friend and mentioned a bunch of stuff from her sociology class she just had this semester.

Apparently being born female is one thing, but being taught how to be female is another thing. If a baby girl is always around a mother who wears perfume, the daughter is going to learn that females should smell pretty. If she always put an effort into doing her hair and make up, the child is going to learn that females should look pretty. The same goes for what they wear and what they play with. Essentially she said that a female child will probably recognize that they are a female, but how they act (in the sense of being female) depends on what they see and learn from everyone around them.

I used to always play in the mud and I never cared what I looked like (as far as clothing and what not went) when I was growing up in Germany, but as soon as we moved to the states and I started middle school, wow did the girls in my grade ever make fun of me. I didn't start acting like a girl until I was made fun of for not acting like a girl.

[Shiny SyIveon]

I thought it was both?

Like "boys play with cars and girls play with dolls" is something you learn but you can't really change someone's hormones. (Well, of course you can with more hormones, but not by teaching them social standards xd )

[Reportable]

-Lo Va Tits-

no, i dont think it is a learned behavior at all if you grow up knowing that you are the opposite gender or just knowing that something is missing, to quote a cliche You are born that way

Personal experience:
but to just grow up with the same interests as the opposite gender is absolutely different, growing up i was totally a tomboy but i am still a girl and i have no desire to be male nor do i see my self as a stranger in my own body

Advice:
try talking to a transgender person or someone that doesn't identify as either gender

I actually have two trans friends, one is mtf and one is ftm, I don't know why I didn't think to ask them first! Thank you~

[Tertiary Fugue State]

Gender is fluid.

[-Lo Va Tits-]

Reportable

-Lo Va Tits-

no, i dont think it is a learned behavior at all if you grow up knowing that you are the opposite gender or just knowing that something is missing, to quote a cliche You are born that way

Personal experience:
but to just grow up with the same interests as the opposite gender is absolutely different, growing up i was totally a tomboy but i am still a girl and i have no desire to be male nor do i see my self as a stranger in my own body

Advice:
try talking to a transgender person or someone that doesn't identify as either gender

I actually have two trans friends, one is mtf and one is ftm, I don't know why I didn't think to ask them first! Thank you~

your welcome, glad i could help

[The Gay Science]

No one can actually tell you the answer with 100% certainty. I would say that there are most likely aspects of gender that are learned and some that are based in biology.

[32 Flavours]

I don't think it is a learned behavior.

I have a transgender cousin who thought he was a girl from the time he was old enough to talk. No matter what his parents did to teach him to be a boy, it never worked.

[Rennie`]

Erm..... yes and no.

Kids are taught from a very young age to understand their gender (unconsciously) like boys are called 'mate', 'my man', 'buddy', 'little monster' whereas girls are called 'sweetie', 'princess' etc. Also the colours, toys, mannerisms etc are taught.

I do think some things are out of the realm of learned behaviours. For example boys are physically stronger then girls. It has been proven that boys are better at maths then girls and girls are better at english then boys. Boys are proven to be better at things that require 'working out' with a black and white answer whereas girls analyse and prefer 'gray' structures.

Come to think of it, where did the idea of giving boys car toys and girls dolls come from? Obviously there is something in the mind that differs boys from girls and, generation after generation, it came to this?

Unfortunately this 'nature vs. nurture' debate will never had a diffinative answer.


EDIT: Come to think about it when I was brought up I had a mixture of 'girls' and 'boys' stuff (I was an only child at this point so no 'hand-me-downs' from other siblings). Even though I loved barbie dolls and polly pockets I remember loving Thomas the Tank Engine, I wanted a tshirt with said train on it and my parents could only get me one from the boys section. I also loved Disney which was very much unisex (especially when I had a mustard yellow sweater with Micky Mouse on the front.... it was a boys jumper, yet I wanted it!

[Honeydew Haiku]

There are some learned aspects of gender, but gender identity itself is biological. This is an essay explaining the findings of a study about transsexuality, but it directly addresses this issue. Boys and girls have brains that work in different ways: gender identity stems from these biological differences. Gender expression, however, is learned.