Gender Identification

[Reportable]

my blog is low calorie

Gender is a completely man-made ideal. People try to enforce it all the time because the thought of others straying away from what's considered normal isn't understood by their frail minds.
I don't even think you have to identify as a female to have feminine traits, nor do I think somebody has to identify as male to have masculine traits. I for one am interested in androgynous style and am trying to obscure my style to the point that people can't tell if what I'm wearing is from the men's section or not.

This reminds me of an article I read about certain countries and baby names. Certain countries, mostly in Europe, will not let you name your baby something that does easily not identify the sex of the child.

[Velvet Overkill]

Hit and miss.

[Juxtaposed the Angel]

Oblivion Blades

Laughing Kookaburra

Blackrose_Knight

Laughing Kookaburra

Blackrose_Knight

Laughing Kookaburra

I thought it was both?

Like "boys play with cars and girls play with dolls" is something you learn but you can't really change someone's hormones. (Well, of course you can with more hormones, but not by teaching them social standards xd )

Playing with cars or dolls is not written in genetic code. Those are gender stereotyped behaviors encouraged by popular society. Stores have "boys toys" and "girls toys" sections, they are almost always separate and almost always the girl section done in pink, boys done in blue. None of that is genetic, but learned social behaviors and expectations force fed to parents and kids.

You just repeated what I said. lol

Sorry, your post was fear unclear to me.

Yeah sorry, I meant that:

1) Which toys kids play with is something society "teaches" them
2) Hormones contribute to the gender identification and that's something you are born with

Changing someone's hormones doesn't change their gender identity, though.

Do you have proof that hormones do not have any result on how they view themselves?

[Clockwork Tribble]

I think it's a combination of what you were born with and what you've experienced. My brother and I both have gender neutral names and grew up with pretty similar experiences (playing with legos, learning to cook, going to the shooting range, etc.), but we're drastically different. He's the definition of masculine but makes bracelets for fun, and I'm an absolute girly girl who is attracted to other girly girls.

Maybe I wouldn't have turned out to enjoy video games so much if my dad hadn't taught me to shoot rifles, or to love clothes and jewelry the way I do if my cousins hadn't made me play dress up so often, but none of that changed my gender identity.

[CapCrack]

While a lot of the things we know about gender are contrived and from culture, if we look over all cultures, there are some commonalities that I think we should NOT ignore. I think the idea that what we are born with does not affect our actions is a cultural myth just as much as the myth that boys like blue and girls like pink.
Chromosomes and hormones matter since they shape our actions and what we are drawn to. I'm sorry.

[Reportable]

CapCrack

While a lot of the things we know about gender are contrived and from culture, if we look over all cultures, there are some commonalities that I think we should NOT ignore. I think the idea that what we are born with does not affect our actions is a cultural myth just as much as the myth that boys like blue and girls like pink.
Chromosomes and hormones matter since they shape our actions and what we are drawn to. I'm sorry.

Story of blue and pink:
Romans.
The god Jupiter favored blue, the Romans culturally favored boys, therefore boys were wrapped in blue.
Pink was the color left over from washing the red robes that I forget who got to wear... So they would use that left over color for the girls, because girls aren't as important as boys.

[Shiny SyIveon]

Oblivion Blades

Laughing Kookaburra

Blackrose_Knight

Laughing Kookaburra

Blackrose_Knight

Laughing Kookaburra

I thought it was both?

Like "boys play with cars and girls play with dolls" is something you learn but you can't really change someone's hormones. (Well, of course you can with more hormones, but not by teaching them social standards xd )

Playing with cars or dolls is not written in genetic code. Those are gender stereotyped behaviors encouraged by popular society. Stores have "boys toys" and "girls toys" sections, they are almost always separate and almost always the girl section done in pink, boys done in blue. None of that is genetic, but learned social behaviors and expectations force fed to parents and kids.

You just repeated what I said. lol

Sorry, your post was fear unclear to me.

Yeah sorry, I meant that:

1) Which toys kids play with is something society "teaches" them
2) Hormones contribute to the gender identification and that's something you are born with

Changing someone's hormones doesn't change their gender identity, though.

Hormones play part in how you feel, though.

Changing them can mess someone's system up quite badly.
(Happened to my best IRL friend)

[Rebel_Dynasty]

Reportable

Not sure if this is the right forum...

Currently having a discussion with a friend about gender identification.

They claim it is not a learned behavior, I claim it is.

Anyone care to discuss?

I agree with you that it is a learned behaviour. I should do a bit more research myself, but I do recall hearing that children do not identify with a specific gender until they hit a certain age (I don't recall if this age was 5 or 8, or somewhere inbetween).

My daughter isn't quite four yet, and from the looks of things, she doesn't identify exclusively with feminine traits. She owns both "girl" and "boy" toys, she's more active than articulate, and she is blissfully unaware of any existing gender roles. From what I recall, I was much the same as a child. In fact, I think there was a period of time where I identified myself as male, rather than female. From what my mom tells me, my brother also had a mixture of toys, some of which were thought to be feminine-all of his choosing.

On the inside, I still have some tomboyish tendencies; however, over the years, I have noticed some more feminine traits have made themselves known. I do believe society plays a part in this, particularly the media.

Fortunately, there are those of us who deign to question why females and males are so different; that isn't to say other's opinions are invalid. I'm simply stating that I don't think we really are so different. Sure, evolution made women smaller (this is a generalization), and males bigger, but this is something that occurred because of the types of things early civilizations dictated. Women had hour-glass figures, but not quite to the extent that we have now. It is believed the clothing played a part in this. Physical activities likewise, dictated that men have more muscle mass.

In short, I agree with you. We've essentially shaped ourselves physically and mentally based on what we learn throughout our lives. However, it is up to the individual to decide if they will continue down that path, or if they will break off of it.

[Seraph of Thursday]

Juxtaposed the Angel

Do you have proof that hormones do not have any result on how they view themselves?

Of course it changes how people view themselves, but it doesn't change their identity. I've never heard of that happening, and it sure as hell did not happen to me.

[Seraph of Thursday]

Laughing Kookaburra

Hormones play part in how you feel, though.

Changing them can mess someone's system up quite badly.
(Happened to my best IRL friend)

Most certainly, in a similar manner as salt changes how food tastes.

Hormones are serious business and should never be messed with without the permission and supervision of a professional. What happened to your friend?

[Shiny SyIveon]

Oblivion Blades

Laughing Kookaburra

Hormones play part in how you feel, though.

Changing them can mess someone's system up quite badly.
(Happened to my best IRL friend)

Most certainly, in a similar manner as salt changes how food tastes.

Hormones are serious business and should never be messed with without the permission and supervision of a professional. What happened to your friend?

She had some kind of hormone problem that affected her badly.
She wouldn't have been able to get pregnant without medication.

I think she had too much testosterone. Her hair was growing like that of a guy (hairy arms, etc), too.
And she was really hyperactive, too.

Then she got medication and now everything is fine. She also doesn't behave like a crazy little boy anymore. xd

[Seraph of Thursday]

Laughing Kookaburra

She had some kind of hormone problem that affected her badly.
She wouldn't have been able to get pregnant without medication.

I think she had too much testosterone. Her hair was growing like that of a guy (hairy arms, etc), too.
And she was really hyperactive, too.

Then she got medication and now everything is fine. She also doesn't behave like a crazy little boy anymore. xd

Wow, ouch. gonk Good that it was fixed, though!

[Shiny SyIveon]

Oblivion Blades

Laughing Kookaburra

She had some kind of hormone problem that affected her badly.
She wouldn't have been able to get pregnant without medication.

I think she had too much testosterone. Her hair was growing like that of a guy (hairy arms, etc), too.
And she was really hyperactive, too.

Then she got medication and now everything is fine. She also doesn't behave like a crazy little boy anymore. xd

Wow, ouch. gonk Good that it was fixed, though!

Yup, she was really happy.

Now her boobs grew from B cup to D cup. xd Maybe I should get some hormones...

(Ah, not really, my pill is already messing me up enough)

[Beatus Sine Nomine]

I'm not sure, I think that both have influence, especially with today's media. As a child I didn't know there was something odd about me. I had a collection of Barbies, and yet I would still play Batman, Jurassic Park, and Power Rangers with my older brother. I watched Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z episodes back to back.

When I went to school, however, I became the outcast. The girls were too...girly, pink, and afraid of dirt to relate to, so I didn't fit in there. The boys were too rough, aggressive, and sport oriented, so I didn't fit in there either. Basically, I was on my own because of the gender roles that I didn't fit into, and that lasted up until about sixth grade at which time I started to find some like-minded people.

I wasn't aware that I fit the androgynous category until about three years ago, but ever since it has made sense as to why I didn't mesh with most others well. As I've gotten older it has gotten better, but I do tend to be more isolated if my friends aren't around.