Dumbing Down Video Games

[Chaos Dirge]

Inconspicuous Obviousness

Chaos Dirge

Hardcore doesn't exist.

That said, difficulty is up to interpretation. Do you consider the Gamecube version of the OoT game more difficult? I find it easier.

Well can you please define your definition of hardcore to me and why you don't think it exists?

Because I believe someone who can play a game like Battletoads all the way through or IWBTG on a timed run or someone who has played every game on the highest difficulty to be a "hardcore" gamer, but y'know thats just my opinion.

Thats just the point, you missed it.

People that don't get why I say this don't get the joke.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hard-core

Thats the definition of Hardcore, read it.

There are so many different fake definitions that they all collapse on themselves. Technically, you would be right. However what makes them hardcore? Is it the game? Or is it their devotion.

It is their devotion, anything that has to do with the games boundaries does not make them hardcore like how people seem to think now.

The only way a game can be judged as hardcore is the same way porn is described as hardcore and I don't hear people calling games softcore do you?

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers "casual porn watchers". Its just that if you watch porn you watch porn. So since people are so childish about the definition of Hardcore. I refuse to accept it, like a child.

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

ChibiGingi

Well, consider this. Some of us supposed 'hardcore' gamers were young(ish) when OoT came out, and the puzzles in that game seemed hard, if not downright cruel. Water Temple comes to mind.

Now that I'm older, I decided to check back and replayed LoZ:OoT, and I breezed through that Water Temple. Now, was it because with a more practiced mind (and many years of video games) it seemed easier, or was it simply memories of playing that level over and over again that made it easier? ******** if I know.

Make a game too challenging and only a select few will want to deal with it (I Want to be That Guy, or something like that), but make it too simple and the supposed hardcore gamers will forever whine and b***h about it.

Personally, I play games just to play games. If I can't figure out a puzzle, it's called the internet. Having that, as opposed to strategy guides that did jack and s**t back then, helps a lot.

Seriously, who plays games just to have fun anymore? What's this hardcore crap?

Note how I quote hardcore, this a debatable topic. But my point was, is that I believe game developers are making games a bit too easy for the general population, and are scared to even make the game a slight too difficult for fear for people not liking the game.

I'm sorry im not good with sarcasm but when you said
Seriously, who plays games just to have fun anymore?
Were you being sarcastic? Because I believe thats the only reason to play them...and to discuss them.

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

Aurora Sonata

What? I found Twilight Princess to be too darned hard. I gave up one day and the disc is now collecting dust.

.....uhm, might I know what you found too hard about it?

[ChibiGingi]

Yes, I was being sarcastic, if not a little bitter.

There are a lot of gamers that believe that, in order to be a hardcore gamer, one must play and finish all games, good or bad, on the hardest difficulty, despite if it's genuinely hard or just cheap as hell artificial hard. Anyone who complains is casual, a lesser gamer, and therefor is mocked or looked down upon. Those that play games just to have fun are often thrown into this silly category by supposed hardcore gamers.

Some people treat it like it's more of a job than what it really is, a hobby. You are more than welcomed to pursue some notion of being a hardcore gamer, but your definition is very different from what others' might be.

Anyways, yes, video game companies are too scared. They don't want to lose the profit they could gain from casual. So they stay within the safety zone. With the way the economy is, no one wants to take risks, and I can't blame them.

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

Chaos Dirge

Inconspicuous Obviousness

Chaos Dirge

Hardcore doesn't exist.

That said, difficulty is up to interpretation. Do you consider the Gamecube version of the OoT game more difficult? I find it easier.

Well can you please define your definition of hardcore to me and why you don't think it exists?

Because I believe someone who can play a game like Battletoads all the way through or IWBTG on a timed run or someone who has played every game on the highest difficulty to be a "hardcore" gamer, but y'know thats just my opinion.

Thats just the point, you missed it.

People that don't get why I say this don't get the joke.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hard-core

Thats the definition of Hardcore, read it.

There are so many different fake definitions that they all collapse on themselves. Technically, you would be right. However what makes them hardcore? Is it the game? Or is it their devotion.

It is their devotion, anything that has to do with the games boundaries does not make them hardcore like how people seem to think now.

The only way a game can be judged as hardcore is the same way Porn is described as hardcore and I don't hear people calling games softcore do you?

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers casual porn watchers. its just that if you watch porn you watch porn. So since people are so childish about the definition of Hardcore. I refuse to accept it, like a child.

I'm sorry, this is off-topic but I would like to say, thankyou for debating with me and such

But anyways, I was asking for YOUR definition of hardcore, but I suppose thats impossible since you don't believe it even exists.

I believe it is the persons devotion, Ive never called a game "hardcore" because I dont think Ive found one that would be labled it, and I dont know what would define a "hardcore" game.

I believe there are "hardcore" gamers, and if they do, as you say not exist, what would you call someone who devotes their time to beating a game in every way possible and exploring it through and through...besides calling them someone who has no life.

[RAFAKUN MORRY]

hard core games to me are a bunch of elitist that arent satisfied whit a game difficulty unless you are able to die in one shot form any unavoidable attack of any monster .

i can agree that it is true many of the games lately ( not just LOZ btw ) have become rather easy to conquer for ether the fact of there being to many weak enemy's or the puzzles being to simple , it would be cool if all games had more then one difficulty setting changing not only the number of enemy's but the enemy's A.I. and the puzzles complexity ( like how different OoT is from master quest )

[Langlen]

Gaming in particular has never been difficult outside of artificial challenges.

[Kafka]

Chaos Dirge

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers casual porn watchers.

I'm really glad I wasn't drinking any of my tea when I read this. lol

I don't get why people have to tack on extra words on to "gamer" to make it seem "better" or more "special." Using "hardcore" as a descriptor for a gamer just ends up looking silly to me.

There are so many games coming out these days and people have shorter attention spans than ever before. It's really in a developer's best interest to make their games as appealling to the general public as they possibly can, difficulty level included.

[Chaos Dirge]

Inconspicuous Obviousness

Chaos Dirge

Inconspicuous Obviousness

Chaos Dirge

Hardcore doesn't exist.

That said, difficulty is up to interpretation. Do you consider the Gamecube version of the OoT game more difficult? I find it easier.

Well can you please define your definition of hardcore to me and why you don't think it exists?

Because I believe someone who can play a game like Battletoads all the way through or IWBTG on a timed run or someone who has played every game on the highest difficulty to be a "hardcore" gamer, but y'know thats just my opinion.

Thats just the point, you missed it.

People that don't get why I say this don't get the joke.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hard-core

Thats the definition of Hardcore, read it.

There are so many different fake definitions that they all collapse on themselves. Technically, you would be right. However what makes them hardcore? Is it the game? Or is it their devotion.

It is their devotion, anything that has to do with the games boundaries does not make them hardcore like how people seem to think now.

The only way a game can be judged as hardcore is the same way Porn is described as hardcore and I don't hear people calling games softcore do you?

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers casual porn watchers. its just that if you watch porn you watch porn. So since people are so childish about the definition of Hardcore. I refuse to accept it, like a child.

I'm sorry, this is off-topic but I would like to say, thankyou for debating with me and such

But anyways, I was asking for YOUR definition of hardcore, but I suppose thats impossible since you don't believe it even exists.

I believe it is the persons devotion, Ive never called a game "hardcore" because I dont think Ive found one that would be labled it, and I dont know what would define a "hardcore" game.

I believe there are "hardcore" gamers, and if they do, as you say not exist, what would you call someone who devotes their time to beating a game in every way possible and exploring it through and through...besides calling them someone who has no life.

I gave you my definition of Hardcore, the definition that has existed for 60 years.

By what you said you would imply that there was a different 'Hardcore gamer' than just that. I stick to the regular definition. The definition that says that anyone can be a hardcore gamer even if they just play video poker alot.

[Langlen]

Beramode

Chaos Dirge

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers casual porn watchers.

I'm really glad I wasn't drinking any of my tea when I read this. lol

I don't get why people have to tack on extra words on to "gamer" to make it seem "better" or more "special." Using "hardcore" as a descriptor for a gamer just ends up looking silly to me.

There are so many games coming out these days and people have shorter attention spans than ever before. It's really in a developer's best interest to make their games as appealling to the general public as they possibly can, difficulty level included.

Beramode, I haven't told you this lately, but it still bears saying:

I love you. 3nodding

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

ChibiGingi

Yes, I was being sarcastic, if not a little bitter.

There are a lot of gamers that believe that, in order to be a hardcore gamer, one must play and finish all games, good or bad, on the hardest difficulty, despite if it's genuinely hard or just cheap as hell artificial hard. Anyone who complains is casual, a lesser gamer, and therefor is mocked or looked down upon. Those that play games just to have fun are often thrown into this silly category by supposed hardcore gamers.

Some people treat it like it's more of a job than what it really is, a hobby. You are more than welcomed to pursue some notion of being a hardcore gamer, but your definition is very different from what others' might be.

Anyways, yes, video game companies are too scared. They don't want to lose the profit they could gain from casual. So they stay within the safety zone. With the way the economy is, no one wants to take risks, and I can't blame them.

Thankyou so much for your opinions, honestly I'm glad to have this conversation, especially a civilized one where people are trying to shove their ideals down your throat sweatdrop

I do not like gamers who seem to put themself on a pedestal just because they have more trophies or points than other people, but yes I would agree that my definition of hardcore is much different than others in the aspect that I think of it as more of a positive thing...I guess.

But yes, I do understand why game developers are doing this, and I cannot blame them either, I guess i'm just addressing a problem that cannot be solved, or can be, but both sides will not be pleased.

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

RAFAKUN MORRY

hard core games to me are a bunch of elitist that arent satisfied whit a game difficulty unless you are able to die in one shot form any unavoidable attack of any monster .

now on topic i can agree that it is true many of the games lately ( not just LOZ btw ) have become rather easy to conquer for ether the fact of there being to many weak enemy's or the puzzles being to simple , it would be cool if all games had a hard mode changing not only the number of enemy's but the enemy's A.I. and the puzzles complexity ( like how different OoT is from master quest )

See, I guess thats where I differ from most people in this discussion, is that I see the "hardcore" title not as someone who is a pompous elitest, but someone who enjoys playing video games alot more than the average person and is willing to go a bit farther than nessesary when beating a game.

[Langlen]

Inconspicuous Obviousness

RAFAKUN MORRY

hard core games to me are a bunch of elitist that arent satisfied whit a game difficulty unless you are able to die in one shot form any unavoidable attack of any monster .

now on topic i can agree that it is true many of the games lately ( not just LOZ btw ) have become rather easy to conquer for ether the fact of there being to many weak enemy's or the puzzles being to simple , it would be cool if all games had a hard mode changing not only the number of enemy's but the enemy's A.I. and the puzzles complexity ( like how different OoT is from master quest )

See, I guess thats where I differ from most people in this discussion, is that I see the "hardcore" title not as someone who is a pompous elitest, but someone who enjoys playing video games alot more than the average person and is willing to go a bit farther than nessesary when beating a game.

However, the majority of gamers who call themselves "hardcore" are elitist ********.

That's why there's such a negative viewpoint towards that term, and that's part of hte reason I hate to separate gamers into "classes".

[Inconspicuous Obviousness]

Beramode

Chaos Dirge

I don't hear people calling softcore porn watchers casual porn watchers.

I'm really glad I wasn't drinking any of my tea when I read this. lol

I don't get why people have to tack on extra words on to "gamer" to make it seem "better" or more "special." Using "hardcore" as a descriptor for a gamer just ends up looking silly to me.

There are so many games coming out these days and people have shorter attention spans than ever before. It's really in a developer's best interest to make their games as appealling to the general public as they possibly can, difficulty level included.

I've never really posted on this forum..s-so I dont know if I should be honored to get a moderator to discuss on my forum.

But anyways...
Yes people do like to feel higher than others so they do add on titles like Hardcore and things like that, but again, I view the definition of "hardcore" in a more positive term, as someone who loves videogames more than the average person and is willing to play the game as thoroughly as possible, or someone who just plays a buttload of videogames. But thats just me, and I usually do not represent the majority.

But back to the issue. I understand why they shorten games and lower the difficulty levels (as much to my distaste), because of the general public, and in the end, we all need to make a living, I guess im just adressing an issue that probably will have no happy ending.

But thankyou for your comments ;w;

[MorganKnives]

I can't say anything for how others use it but I've always used "hardcore gamer" as meaning "intensely loyal to a specific genre/company/series/etc." E.G. I call myself a hardcore Legend of Zelda fan because I'm specifically devoted to that series. I don't think I'm better than anyone else at it though.

Still, it's not really surprising; you find this type of class system in almost all parts of life. It might be how much money you have, how you got it (old money vs new money), what you're major in college is, where you live (even as specific as one block of the same neighborhood being "better" than another)... Anything really.