Art: What is it not?

[Kendaroo]

Meowhead

Kendaroo

Tyrande Whisperwind

And a discussion never ends, there is no way to end it.

I've used up my intellectual quota for the day. It blew up with my last intelligent post when I closed the tab before posting. Thus I am for the time being left with nothing but stupid questions to ask and snarky useless comments to make, please excuse this laps in intellect as I am currently suffering from not-caring-about-this-topic-anymore and should be cured by tomorrow after a good night's sleep:

So.. if we're talking about fish, but then we start talking about beach ball, have we started a new discussion or is it the same one? If it's a new discussion then has the one about fish ended?

The fact that you think a discussion can end suggests that you aren't married.

A discussion NEVER ENDS. Years from now, points from a discussion you thought was long buried, will crop back up.

They're like zombies. Made out of words.

Ahaha! Nicely done. I bow to you sir.

And you would be correct, I am not married.

... but if we put a discussion in a metal box...

[Kupocake]

lost starlight

Kendaroo

lost starlight

Kendaroo

lost starlight

I read ALL of this, the whole thread. This argument goes in so many circles it's not even funny!


I'll take the quantum physics answer to this: Everything both is an isn't art until it's observed as art or not art.


That was a joke!

So I have this cat...

eek If I stick it in a metal box is it art!?

I dunno... is there poison in the box? How do we know the cat is really in there?

Well, for this to be a postmodernistic piece there would HAVE to be poison. And lasers.

@Kupocake: What a silly question! It obviously turned into a banana.

Poppycock! I propose the cat has teleported through the space-time continuum and to Mars, where it met with Abraham Lincoln.

Turning into a banana... *snorts* *monocle*

[Kaiser-chan]

Tyrande Whisperwind

This is true.
Even though I said all opinions are equal I also think no human can weight their opinion the same as others (even if they're not disgusting/repulsive, but just because they're not you), but this is also what makes them the same. (I don't think that's a flaw, it's just how we are)

Logically speaking, you can think that guy's opinion is inferior because you think badly of him.
But on the other side, he can also be thinking badly of you and think your opinion's worse than his.
There is no measurement of this, since they're based on personal tastes, thus they're bound to be equal, logically speaking (emotionally, no).

I think I went and muddied my point by trying to make too many concessions. sweatdrop Ah, this is why I avoid the ED, and places like that most of the time. It's hard to keep shooting straight when it feels like I'm going to push it too hard.

I think it is possible to say that not all opinions are equal - not even in the eye of the beholder. An opinion based on a lifetime of research is still an opinion, but it is not the same type of opinion as one someone pulls out of their a** when drunk. I don't believe they can be said to be of equal quality.

If someone proposes that women are inferior to men, and claims that, well, it's just their opinion, this is a problem. This is an opinion that, if acted upon by someone with power, hurts people.

If I propose that I just don't like soft-bristled hair brushes and that they're inferior to nice normal hair brushes, well that doesn't hurt anything. It doesn't even hurt the industry of hair brushes. While they are both just opinions, one has repercussions, the other does not. This makes them inherently different - inherently unequal.


If I opine that the reason the Linux lab at my university is always freezing is because the thermostat is rather unfortunately located directly behind a rack of servers, well, that's just my opinion. I have no proof or fact to back it up, only speculation. That speculation is based on four years of freezing my a** off, and the fact that the thermostat continues to claim that the room is 86 degrees Fahrenheit despite this.

If another classmate claims that the room is freezing because they caught that one stupid angry freshman troll trying to fork bomb in java again, well, that's his opinion too. But his isn't based on observations (well, other than the observation that there's a rather famously slow individual in our program), and his opinion doesn't stand much of a chance of matching the facts.

I don't think those two opinions are of equal quality. Even if this hypothetical classmate truly believes his theory as much as I believe mine, it doesn't raise his opinion. True, there is no way to quantify that my opinion has more validity than a hypothetical bullshit opinion I've just made up, but people can weigh the two, and come to the conclusion that these two opinions are not of equal weight.

And completely unrelated, yet on the topic of unequivocal equality, since this thread keeps circling around it, it only reminds me of Harrison Bergeron. Is that still required reading in many public schools?

[Meowhead]

Kupocake

Meowhead

Kupocake

Possibly, but the real question: is it alive or dead if the metal box is never opened?

Definitely dead. That's the nice thing about that question, put off answering it long enough and you'll never be wrong with the answer 'dead'.

I was making a joke about Schrodinger's cat. emo

But that works too. XD

I am actually familiar with the cat in question, but that is my standard response to the question, actually. 'Leave the cat in the box long enough, and probability increasingly collapses towards dead'. smile

[Kendaroo]

Meowhead

Kupocake

Meowhead

Kupocake

Possibly, but the real question: is it alive or dead if the metal box is never opened?

Definitely dead. That's the nice thing about that question, put off answering it long enough and you'll never be wrong with the answer 'dead'.

I was making a joke about Schrodinger's cat. emo

But that works too. XD

I am actually familiar with the cat in question, but that is my standard response to the question, actually. 'Leave the cat in the box long enough, and probability increasingly collapses towards dead'. smile

But what if the cat has first been given an elixir of immortality? HMM?! WHAT THEN?!

You know a conversation has fallen apart when you're using immortality elixers as an argument for Schrodinger's cat when the conversation was about art...

[lost starlight]

It's a more productive direction for this discussion that the one it had been!

[Meowhead]

Kaiser-chan

If someone proposes that women are inferior to men, and claims that, well, it's just their opinion, this is a problem. This is an opinion that, if acted upon by someone with power, hurts people.

I'm glad you're phrasing it as 'women are not inferior to men', rather than 'women are equal to men'.

Two statements that are not actually equivalent. My opinion (... and one that seems hard to argue with, but hey, this thread has already proven you can argue anything) is that women >< men.

They are not inferior (or superior), they are just... different.

[cirtneccE]

Kendaroo

Meowhead

Kupocake

Meowhead

Kupocake

Possibly, but the real question: is it alive or dead if the metal box is never opened?

Definitely dead. That's the nice thing about that question, put off answering it long enough and you'll never be wrong with the answer 'dead'.

I was making a joke about Schrodinger's cat. emo

But that works too. XD

I am actually familiar with the cat in question, but that is my standard response to the question, actually. 'Leave the cat in the box long enough, and probability increasingly collapses towards dead'. smile

But what if the cat has first been given an elixir of immortality? HMM?! WHAT THEN?!

You know a conversation has fallen apart when you're using immortality elixers as an argument for Schrodinger's cat when the conversation was about art...

Has the cat consumed the elixir or is there a child proof lid that separates him from his chance at godliness?

[Kendaroo]

DrenchedCoyote

Kendaroo

Meowhead

Kupocake

Meowhead

Kupocake

Possibly, but the real question: is it alive or dead if the metal box is never opened?

Definitely dead. That's the nice thing about that question, put off answering it long enough and you'll never be wrong with the answer 'dead'.

I was making a joke about Schrodinger's cat. emo

But that works too. XD

I am actually familiar with the cat in question, but that is my standard response to the question, actually. 'Leave the cat in the box long enough, and probability increasingly collapses towards dead'. smile

But what if the cat has first been given an elixir of immortality? HMM?! WHAT THEN?!

You know a conversation has fallen apart when you're using immortality elixers as an argument for Schrodinger's cat when the conversation was about art...

Has the cat consumed the elixir or is there a child proof lid that separates him from his chance at godliness?

Well you see the cat already believes he is a god. That is every cat's opinion. Because it is his (or her) opinion it is valid and he or she is therefore a god. The elixer is just a formality to allows the cat to remain in the mortal realm.

The elixer of immortality is produced by the philosophers stone so I have no reason to believe that it has a child safety lid on it.

[cirtneccE]

Kendaroo

DrenchedCoyote

Kendaroo

Meowhead

Kupocake

I was making a joke about Schrodinger's cat. emo

But that works too. XD

I am actually familiar with the cat in question, but that is my standard response to the question, actually. 'Leave the cat in the box long enough, and probability increasingly collapses towards dead'. smile

But what if the cat has first been given an elixir of immortality? HMM?! WHAT THEN?!

You know a conversation has fallen apart when you're using immortality elixers as an argument for Schrodinger's cat when the conversation was about art...

Has the cat consumed the elixir or is there a child proof lid that separates him from his chance at godliness?

Well you see the cat already believes he is a god. That is every cat's opinion. Because it is his (or her) opinion it is valid and he or she is therefore a god. The elixer is just a formality to allows the cat to remain in the mortal realm.

The elixer of immortality is produced by the philosophers stone so I have no reason to believe that it has a child safety lid on it.

So if the cat already believes that he is a god.... will he ever realize that he's gained immortality? Or will he just assume that he's had it all along?

[Major Malfunction]

Tyrande Whisperwind

That's one way to view art as.
Some would say "this isn't art, this is a monstruosity!

My point remains.

You don't even know the pieces I'm talking about, do you?

[cirtneccE]

Major Malfunction

Tyrande Whisperwind

That's one way to view art as.
Some would say "this isn't art, this is a monstruosity!

My point remains.

You don't even know the pieces I'm talking about, do you?

STFU! Argument over!

[Kendaroo]

What Coyote is trying to say Major is that this thread is now about cats in boxes.

[Tyrande Whisperwind]

Kaiser-chan

I think it is possible to say that not all opinions are equal - not even in the eye of the beholder. An opinion based on a lifetime of research is still an opinion, but it is not the same type of opinion as one someone pulls out of their a** when drunk. I don't believe they can be said to be of equal quality.
...
I don't think those two opinions are of equal quality. Even if this hypothetical classmate truly believes his theory as much as I believe mine, it doesn't raise his opinion. True, there is no way to quantify that my opinion has more validity than a hypothetical bullshit opinion I've just made up, but people can weigh the two, and come to the conclusion that these two opinions are not of equal weight.

That's also true, it's... relative to the subject in question.
What you just said I think of it as "usefulness" of an opinion and not it's weight in value.

Some will just be more useful if it's based on some sort of knowledge, to accurately describe the need/solution, while others will lack it.
And when it comes to a subjective question such as this thread, I think there's really no usefulness at all, from any kind of opinion, famous or no-famous. In the end it's just how you perceive the reality around you.

It's the same as asking "What is God?" - another discussion that some religious fanatics shoot people in the head for disagreeing with them... or they try to exorcize you when you say God doesn't exist neutral

Kaiser-chan

And completely unrelated, yet on the topic of unequivocal equality, since this thread keeps circling around it, it only reminds me of Harrison Bergeron. Is that still required reading in many public schools?

I wouldn't know, I'm not from the US (if this book's internationally famous, then I missed it) - but I had my share of classes about equality and morality (I went to a religious high school...)

Major Malfunction

You don't even know the pieces I'm talking about, do you?

Honestly speaking I don't even remember what you wrote in your last post, and I'm too lazy to go back and check (it's 2 am already and I'm going numb). I'm done for the day emo
Also, this:

Kendaroo

What Coyote is trying to say Major is that this thread is now about cats in boxes.