TWD: Season 4 Finale Discussion: "A" (3/30/14) (Spoilers!)

[Rachuul]

Desna

Thinking on it, I feel like this is the most tense season finale. All they had for the first was the CDC exploding and then just a question mark about where to go next. Everyone was accounted for and you really weren't sure what was going to happen next. The second had them fleeing the farm and trapped on the road. But they showed hope on the horizon with the pan up of the camera showing the prison. You knew where everyone was. Only Andrea was away from the group, but she had Michonne. You knew her chances were good with her. On the third season they managed to "beat back" the Governor and, while they lost Andrea, they brought the people from Woodbury in. People were alive and there was a feeling of hope. Just questions on if it would work.

Season 4? We're left on a cliffhanger where we have no idea who will survive the first episode of season 5. Everyone is in very imminent peril. We don't know what is happening with Tyreese, Carol and Judith. We don't know what happened with Beth. We don't truly know what the deal is with Terminus and what they have planned for Rick and co.

I like how it ended. Because now we have a ( nearly ) fresh start to Season 5. Season 4 was finishing off the jail and dealing with The Governor. But Season 5 will probably completely start and take place in Terminus or other new areas to the series.

But that group, at Terminus , they have their s**t together. gonk
I have faith in Rick and Co. Especially since boss a** Carol isn't captured. emotion_dealwithit And there were plenty of flowers at Terminus.. emotion_awesome

[Desna]

"When people become a part of us we become stronger."

... That is said by the guy with Glenn's watch that later gets shot. That line... sounds very cannibal-like. >_o Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but I get that vibe. This show only likes to fuel the cannibal vibe.

[The Governor of Woodbury]

I suspected that the "Claimed Gang" would be the television version of the comics' marauders and I am very happy to have been proven right,

[Desna]

The Governor of Woodbury

I suspected that the "Claimed Gang" would be the television version of the comics' marauders and I am very happy to have been proven right,

I shared your suspicion. And does the Governor still think he's worse than Joe and company?

[The Governor of Woodbury]

Desna

The Governor of Woodbury

I suspected that the "Claimed Gang" would be the television version of the comics' marauders and I am very happy to have been proven right,

I shared your suspicion. And does the Governor still think he's worse than Joe and company?

The Governor ( * in the television series) never tried to rape an underaged boy, or run around yelling "CLAIMED" at things, so yeah, they are totally not as great as I was.

talk2hand

At least the Governor had his morals, as wrecked as they eventually became. The claimed gang basically had none.

[Desna]

Spoilers for the comics, but in regards to what was seen in that room full of candles and things written on the wall.

I paused and took a look at all of the names and items on the floor. The names are written in a circle and several have items beside them. Like a rag doll or what looks like a bunny plush. Or a soccer ball or a small hat or other toys. This has definitely got the vibe of the comic book cannibals too since those guys ate their children to survive. There are a few other names, but they have numbers beside next to them, like "Zane Camden 40" and "Kristen Miller 42". I see other numbers, like 13, 17, 25, 27, and a couple others I can't make out. I would assume these might be ages. Perhaps people killed or who died from starvation before they settled on their plan. Or people who opposed the plan.

Perhaps the circle is a graveyard since they left nothing to bury.

[Desna]

The Governor of Woodbury

Desna

The Governor of Woodbury

I suspected that the "Claimed Gang" would be the television version of the comics' marauders and I am very happy to have been proven right,

I shared your suspicion. And does the Governor still think he's worse than Joe and company?

The Governor ( * in the television series) never tried to rape an underaged boy, or run around yelling "CLAIMED" at things, so yeah, they are totally not as great as I was.

talk2hand

At least the Governor had his morals, as wrecked as they eventually became. The claimed gang basically had none.

*nods* The Governor was really mixed up. Used to be a good guy before s**t went down. Probably. But everything just twisted his head until he became crazy, but still under the complete belief that he was doing what was correct. Anything that wasn't good for him was not justice or fair.

But I think Joe and co. were bad people before things went south. Those sides of their personality were let loose completely and they became even more monstrous when anarchy hit.

[Desna]

Rachuul

Desna

After watching that behind the scenes bit on Talking Dead I now want to watch the scene as Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Carl run into that room with all the candles, stuff painted on the walls and the floor. There are candles arranged around names. Like memorials. ... Could they be nutty enough to have little shrines to everyone they kill/eat? Just chalked into the ground? I want to rewatch to see if they show any names.

I was thinking the same thing! I'm sure if any names show up, SOMEBODY will post the pictures somewhere... Here's hoping Beth isn't one of them. crying

I rewatched it and I did not see Beth's name among them. I made a post about it earlier about what I saw. Though, I put it behind a spoiler.

The names painted/chalked into the floor don't have any known character names among them. But I do think it is a graveyard for these Termite people.

[oHNo3]

This episode was intense. My heart was about to jump out of my chest.

[Nelo777Neko]

Desna

Nelo777Neko

Desna

- Who is going to die?

Who do I think will perish tonight? Sadly, all signs seem to point to Maggie. And I really like Maggie. She's had her wonderful reunion with Glenn. She's happy. And then she did a VERY foreboding thing by burning that photograph and then basically stating that Glenn will never need a photograph of her because she'll never leave his side again. That just screams bad things are coming for Maggie and Glenn. It is possible that Glenn might die and the person who hinted at a character death being someone who hasn't died in the comic could have been misleading. But, between these two lovebirds, Maggie seems the most likely to die tonight. (And, even if Maggie did die, do you think Glenn would abandon Beth to Atlanta and just leave Maggie's sister? He wouldn't even leave Tara. Unless he was in utter shock and just moved without thinking.)

Sounds more like they are hinting it's Glenn since he won't need a pic of her if he's dead.

It wouldn't really work as much if that was done for Glenn. Glenn gave up the photograph of her. Something he clung to and really hesitated to burn. And she was the one who told him she'd always be there, so a photo was unnecessary. So there wouldn't be the regret of burning the photo or dwelling on the statement that she promised to always be there with him. That scene wouldn't have as much meaning if Glenn died.

Also, I would bet that they'd keep Glenn alive over Maggie on the show for several reasons. Several that contain comic spoilers.

Can still be taken as the other way around..besides.... you don't know if they suddenly decide to follow the comic.....

[Desna]

Wut Panda

Desna

So while the show was very tense, it didn't surprise me besides having Joe and his group die earlier than I expected.

This. I was expecting Joe to be TV series Negan, and therefore Daryl becomes TV series Dwight, but oh well...

I didn't think that of Joe. I was sure Joe and co. was the tv version of the comic Marauders. I was certain Joe and co. would be dead eventually. Just not tonight.

If we're going to have a Negan I am sure his first appearance will smack the audience right upside the head with horror and shock like the comic version did. I don't think they can do anything else for a horrible character as him.

I personally never really saw Joe to be a possible Negan equivalent. Too early in the series, for one. Too soon after the Governor. Joe was never quite as menacing or built up as I would expect Negan to be if he was introduced into the show, too. Joe was scum. Absolute scummy filth, but not utterly twisted in every way. Not as twisted or brutal as Negan has been shown to be. Also, Joe was a leader, but did things in a way that a pirate captain might rule his ship and crew. I would think tv Negan would have had every guy beneath him scared as hell of him. If Negan was in Joe's shoes he probably would have been swinging Lucille right into the face of that one guy who lied in last week's episode about the rabbit. I also can't see Negan going along with the "claimed" rule. XD

[Dark Midnight Whisperer]

i def. have to agree with most of ya'll dat diz epi. was def. an intense one for an finale for sure…plus, i also wonder where da hell is Beth, and whatever happened to Ty and Carol? i mean it never showed them find'n the signs dat lead to terminus, i mean its written almost everywhere, so how can they not see it? o_O

then again, i also wished dat Rick would've fed dat freak'n b*****d fatso jack-a** dat was bout to rape Carl to da zombies… mad either dat, or i wish he'd shoot him straight up in da head or someth'n…and dat also explains why there was blood on Rick's hands, cuz at epi. 415's promo, i was rly start'n to wonder why Rick's face and hands looked all bloody like he killed some ppls…

but yea, i'm just glad dat Rick and co. killed those bastards…plus how did they know dat it was Rick who killed one'o their ppls?? 0_o and how'd they know where to find him? even at night they were able to make out his face? how's dat even possible at night? o_o

anyhow, where the words dat were written on da wall in da room with candles? O_o all i could make out was someth'n someth'n "we first" or "us first" o.0 as da camera was kinda panning fast, i might've missed it…

plus how da frigg'n hell did Glenn and co. end up in da "A" truck too?? arugh…so many questions in my head right now, i just have to know some answers to my questions lol D: as i'm still a li'll confused… sweatdrop

*edit*: i think i might have to re-watch later xD

[Desna]

Nelo777Neko

Desna

Nelo777Neko

Desna

- Who is going to die?

Who do I think will perish tonight? Sadly, all signs seem to point to Maggie. And I really like Maggie. She's had her wonderful reunion with Glenn. She's happy. And then she did a VERY foreboding thing by burning that photograph and then basically stating that Glenn will never need a photograph of her because she'll never leave his side again. That just screams bad things are coming for Maggie and Glenn. It is possible that Glenn might die and the person who hinted at a character death being someone who hasn't died in the comic could have been misleading. But, between these two lovebirds, Maggie seems the most likely to die tonight. (And, even if Maggie did die, do you think Glenn would abandon Beth to Atlanta and just leave Maggie's sister? He wouldn't even leave Tara. Unless he was in utter shock and just moved without thinking.)

Sounds more like they are hinting it's Glenn since he won't need a pic of her if he's dead.

It wouldn't really work as much if that was done for Glenn. Glenn gave up the photograph of her. Something he clung to and really hesitated to burn. And she was the one who told him she'd always be there, so a photo was unnecessary. So there wouldn't be the regret of burning the photo or dwelling on the statement that she promised to always be there with him. That scene wouldn't have as much meaning if Glenn died.

Also, I would bet that they'd keep Glenn alive over Maggie on the show for several reasons. Several that contain comic spoilers.

Can still be taken as the other way around..besides.... you don't know if they suddenly decide to follow the comic.....

I'm not saying that Maggie is definitely going to die. That Glenn dying isn't a possibility. At this point both are at risk of dying. I'm just saying that that scene with Maggie telling Glenn to burn that photo because she'll always be there with him would have a bigger emotional effect if she died. She was the one promising to be there. She was the one pressuring him to burn it. To part with it because it wasn't needed. If she dies and that leaves Glenn alone with not even the photo he cherished of her. At least Maggie has that ring Glenn gave her. Glenn only had that photo as a reminder and momento. If she dies, later down the line that can be a "I struggle to remember her face. I wish I hadn't let her burn it." Perhaps even "why didn't she keep her promise to stay with me?". Glenn never returned that sentiment about never leaving her side. He only gave her the photo to burn.

So it is just that that scene would have more impact on rewatching if Maggie died in shortly after. Like in the first half of season 5. That's just how I feel. It's a personal feeling. It would still have some connection, as Maggie would have personally failed to be at Glenn's side, but I don't think it would be on the same level if Glenn died. Because the photograph was more special to Glenn and his connection to her.

But, heck. Maybe neither will die for a while and it really just was suppose to be a romantic scene and we're reading too much into something that is seasons off. That the writers never meant to be foreboding. Not deliberately. I'm just throwing out my opinion. After many years watching and reading a lot, lines like "you get rid of that momento because I'll always be by your side" has usually led to bad things later for a character. Especially in series that love tragedy.

[Desna]

Dark Midnight Whisperer

but yea, i'm just glad dat Rick and co. killed those bastards…plus how did they know dat it was Rick who killed one'o their ppls?? 0_o and how'd they know where to find him? even at night they were able to make out his face? how's dat even possible at night? o_o

anyhow, where the words dat were written on da wall in da room with candles? O_o all i could make out was someth'n someth'n "we first" or "us first" o.0 as da camera was kinda panning fast, i might've missed it…

plus how da frigg'n hell did Glenn and co. end up in da "A" truck too?? arugh…so many questions in my head right now, i just have to know some answers to my questions lol D: as i'm still a li'll confused… sweatdrop

*edit*: i think i might have to re-watch later xD

The people knew what Rick looked like because someone saw him in the house, if you remember the episode when Rick encountered those guys there was a scene in the bedroom. Rick is trapped under the bed. Two guys fight over the bed. One guy puts the other into a choke hold on the floor. That one guy looks under the bed and sees Rick. That guy wasn't choked to death. He didn't die and Joe pointed him out saying pretty much "he saw the guy who killed him, we know his face". And they knew that Rick was undoubtedly the one who killed their pal in the bathroom. In an earlier episode they revealed that Joe and his gang were tracking Rick and know that he's on the railroads. Much like how Daryl tracks people.
How they were able to identify Rick in the dark? I don't know. I can't remember now if there was a fire going anywhere. I don't think there was. I guess all they had was the light from the moon. Perhaps they made an assumption that it had to be the guy since it was three people and they were looking for three. But it is strange that they were able to find, identify, and jump them effectively in the dark.

I rewatched the episode and paused to see the names on the floor. None of them had familiar names. definitely nothing that even looked like "Beth Greene" or anyone elses name that we would know. Some just had names, a few had names and a number written beside them. Several had little items, perhaps belongings, right beside the name. Like dolls, toys, a guitar, and flowers. With how it is arranged, my guess is this room is a cemetery or, perhaps a better fit, a memorial room for their dead. Where people can pay respects to the fallen.
As for what was on the wall, there were things like "never trust", "us first, always", and "never again".

Last week it showed Glenn, Maggie, Abraham and all the rest arriving in Terminus. They were welcomed and the episode ended. It doesn't show, but it is safe to assume that the Glenn group either found out that Terminus is bad and were unable to escape, or the Terminus people jumped them while they had their guard down and they were thrown into the railcar. Pretty much they were caught by Terminus and imprisoned just like Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Carl.

[Thunder ll]

I absolutely loved Rick in this episode! He was just great.

I'm surprised no one important died. I guess they're saving that for next season. Someone is going to get eaten before they get out of Terminus! I will be super bummed if it's Maggie though. I'm gonna keep saying it: we don't need any more dead wives/girlfriends for a while. That's been a major plotline in the last two seasons. I hope they give it a break.

Let them eat Bob instead. xD

Or let Glenn and Maggie go together.

Beth is still out there, somewhere! Is she going to be like the next Merle where we don't see her for another season? I actually think I would like that.

Fingers crossed that Carol and Tyreese don't fall into the same trap. Ohgod I hope the Termites don't eat Judith. emotion_0A0 Maybe Carol will just light everything on fire and save the day while Tyreese babysits somewhere safe outside Terminus. emotion_dowant