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Shaviv
Quote:
Technically you have to declare war on a country, befor you go perform the war in the afforementioned country.

False!

The President of the United States of America, being Commander in Chief of its Armed Forces, is both limited and empowered by the War Powers Act. He may order military forces to deploy to such and such a location and begin a combat mission (usually involving some degree of blowing up whatever's in their way). He does not have to have their permission. He only has to have consulted them (Section 3). If he wants to keep military forces in position for more than sixty days, however, he must get the approval of Congress. If they deny him such approval the forces must be withdrawn (Section 5b-c).
I stand Corrected. . . Though generally speaking they usually get approval befor they go storming into a country
The court of public opinion is the only judge of whether to wage war in this year. Halliburton is gaining greatly from this presidency. The horrible excecution of Post War Iraq strategy and the slow and stumbling response to Katrina are huge examples of ineptitude. If I had to link a article for everything I wrote people would think me pretentious as the same as you.
Reason One:
Bush has been more inclined to do this war. A person in my public speaking class did a persuasive speech on this and talked about the funding. If not for this war we could fund the AIDS cure search for 10 years, world hunger programs for 15. But even more so we would be able to take care of medicare and medicade in this government. Could work on improving the schools that are low in standards. Keep the Upward Bound program for universities going.

Reason Two:
He uses his religion to back many of his ideas. Stem cell research, something that can lead to many cures and possibly eventually an ability to produce organs for organ replacement, is not being funded because he believes it is linked to abortion. There are threads here on Gaia but the main point is many embryos (for the embryonic stem cells-ones that can turn into any cell eventually) come because of fertility clinics in which 25 embryos are made and only 2 or 3 are implanted in the woman in the hopes one will attach to the uterus. However, the rest are then thrown away for many women do not want to keep them or have any one else use them. There is no possibility of developement to a human and since there was no impregnation there is no abortion. It makes more sense to provide these special cells to possibly save lives.

As of now that is it. Trust me as time goes by I'll probably find more.
Dreamwhisper
Reverend Smooth


Ah well. I'm 30 and have plenty of real-world experience, so by her logic, I'm right.



Since I just turned 39, I'd wager I'm the oldest person in this thread -- and therefor, by her logic, my opinion trumps everyone else's.

Reverend Smooth
(Hint: If one wants to be treated well, don't walk up to people and tell them they suck. One is then ASKING to be flamed. If this is how she acts in chatrooms, no wonder. But hey, according to her, the republican-owned media is liberal, the minority liberals are conformist, and freedom of speech means not being allowed to disagree with one's president or express one's discontent.)

(Oh, and even though judging people is against scripture, it's okay to tell people that they suck.)

(Can someone PLEASE explain to me how this is logical? Seriously, I want to know the mental processes involved here.)


It's not Earth-logic, but it is -- in a twisted, childish way -- logical. It's looking for ways to be a victim. If you're a victim (so goes the rationale of her ilk) you never have to accept the downside of being of the party in power: that you will get taken to task for your ********, because there's no one else to blame.
Damn you've got me by 3 years. . . So I guess I'm only the Second Most right person on this Blog! Have you managed to figure out how these kids got there Brains all screwed up? I mean How niave must you be to believe that business will Help the infrastucture, when it will cut into there Bottom line? Social Responsibility came about because of the employment abuses of the late 19th Century and first half of the 20th Century. Now you wish to tell me that Helping people to live has no use to the well being and social support network of this country?
Invictus_88
danjel
medieval_moon
a lot of you are still like what? 13, 14, 15...younger dare I say?


Anyone less than 20 can just shut the ******** up with this mindless attempt at categorising the opinions of one's opposition as worthless based on age. It is categorically unacceptable as it is argumentum ad hominem.

I see it all the time from conservatives who come here and expect that such stupidity will wash when their opposition is, more often than not, older than them. ie, medieval_moon, who is apparently 18, against the more prolific liberals of this forum, who are generally in their twenties to early thirties.


Maybe I misunderstood that second paragraph..

..but did you not just make the same flawed age-based judgment to imply that the older users would know better than an 18yr old?

confused
He's saying that many conservative underage (or barely adult) freds keep wandering in here and assuming that the liberals in this forum are even younger than they are, when a sizeable portion of the regulars are actually adults and in, uh, at least four cases that I can count - including myself - 30+, not to mention many being in their mid-to-late twenties.

(This should't be surprising, given the subject matter, however.)

Of course, a lot of these types try to pull reverse ageism after they try to pull the age card themselves- I'm surprised there hasn't been an outburst of, '30+ is too old for this forum, get a life LOLZ'.

Not only that, but I venture to say that he might also mean that the opinions of anyone under 20 in regards to politics, particularly in the US, are all pretty much on the same level of experience, so chopping ageist hairs at such a tender age is pretty damn pointless.

But many conservatives are enamored with the stereotype that intelligent, fact-versed and informed adult liberals do not exist at all when in fact many of them do- and they do outnumber conservatives when it comes to separating political fact from fiction.
I guess my point is that if your 10 and you know your stuff Vivad! You can be an idiot at any age. Not addressing information provided you and sticking with the party line no matter right or wrong is stupidity in it's self. It is this lack of flexability that scares me about these little brown shirt Bush Youth types!
Hopo-Sempai
I guess my point is that if your 10 and you know your stuff Vivad! You can be an idiot at any age. Not addressing information provided you and sticking with the party line no matter right or wrong is stupidity in it's self. It is this lack of flexability that scares me about these little brown shirt Bush Youth types!
That's not the point; politically-astute kids exist and some of them frequent this forum.

The point is that gloating about age in regards to voting is pointless, because the (particularly) EXPERIENCE and knowedge levels between kids don't vary all that much. I mean, what's the difference between a fourteen- and an eighteen-year-old in terms of political experience? Neither have gotten to vote and neither of them likely remember more than one administration or the current sitting president, and both base their knowledge on limited experience but possibly lots of reading.

Not only that, but the fourteen-year-old may have gotten involved in local youth politics or volunteered as part of a local campaign, while the eighteen year old may simply be well-read- is the fourteen-year-old then suddenly less educated than the eighteen-year-old because of incremental age differences?

If you're going to mock a kid for being a kid, do it when you haven't BEEN one for at least, oh, five years. That gives you at least a couple presidential elections (and local elections) with which to form experience and context. For example, I remember Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr. That helps to give perspective on issues like trickle-down economics (seeing it in action), Republican vs. Liberal administrations (grade school, high school, college-age), the first Iraq War (high school), Kosovo (college-age), fiscal moderation (liberal administration, college-age), Clinton's escapades (college-age), Bush's term, 9/11, the new Iraq war, etc.

And I'm only 30, several regs have me beat by more than a decade.

That does shape one's knowledge base. I can state with assurance that Clinton was a very moderate liberal, because I clearly remember his Administration. I remember the first Iraq war, and can use my approval of it to counter allegations that I am an anti-war hippie who hates wars only because they are waged by Republicans (in fact, I was accused in high school of being a heartless, inhumane - US - republican for that support). I can say with assurance that Democrat Administrations are not necessarily fiscally-irresponsible, because I remember the Clinton years. I can't just point to abook and say it, I can say that via experience and that does shape my political views.

This doesn't mean that a kid's political views are irrelevant. Intelligence and logic go a long way, kids will cast their first votes while relying on their own knowledge, beliefs, and experience (as well as their parents'). A kid in touch with politics will theoretically produce a more astute and knowledgeable adult.

But kids arguing with kids about their age and political experience (relying on age as the basis) is bullshit. None of them have more than a couple years of experience, while those that actually do (via volunteering or political programs at school or whatnot) may have way more than the older kid.

I realise that this may sound backhandedly ageist, but it really isn't. I wish all kids got into politics, a lot of problems going on today in America might not be happening if more young adults started voting and started voting with a reasonably-informed opinion. Some of the kids in ED Pol really give me hope, because I don't remember this many kids being into politics when I was one.

Also I must note the irony that the vast majority of older regs are liberal independents. ^^

Aged Shapeshifter

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1) It seems to me that the Bush Administration hardly gives a care in the world about the environment. Sure they've passed a couple of environmental bills, but it always seems like they're taking one step forward and two steps back. For example, they made whale hunting (for a certain threatened species, I can't remember which one) legal, and many congressmen as well as George W. Bush still want to drill for oil in Alaska. They would be drilling in a Wildlife preserve, and this would force the wildlife population to the surrounding mosquito-infested plains, where the animals would lose an estimated pint of blood every day.

2) Wars spur economic growth, and Cheney knows it. Although the economy has become more healthy in the past years, that is no reason to be looking for a fight. It seems like our government jumps at the chance to get involved in a conflict. Not only are we active in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we also have active troops in many other areas of conflict, you just don't hear about them that much.
also this whole bit about katrina, yeah yeah we didn't do a very good job responding. how about checking the weather forecast?
last year national geographic did a piece in april about the shift in weather patterns clearly stating that there would be a drastic increase of hurricane activities on the east coast, it even shows a large one hypotheitically going right over new orleans!
It is a fact of life that the movements of hurricanes cannot be precisely foreecast even a week in advance. To say that NGS predicted Katrina a year before it happened is ridiculous. They may have noted the possibility that a hurricane of catastrophic strength might come to hover over New Orleans, but they could not in any way have predicted that "next year will be the year that a hurricane devastates New Orleans at such and such a date." It's impossible.
that's not what i'm saying at all, i'm saying that it wasn't a surprise and they could have been much better prepared/reacted quicker. but i guess that's been said hasn't it? it was also an addendum to the whole better use of our tax dollars thing.
I can not say I hate him really.
I can say that he is grossly incompetent, that much I could mention.

Why do I think that?
1 - His priorities seems to be fitting on a world of fantasy.
A - They were considering bringing back Star Wars and create a glut of weapon system programs when they should have concentrated on terrorism and diplomacy.
B - They cut military support systems in regards to benefits. They have not listened to voices of reason such as Clarke, Shinseki and those that mentioned the need for more troops. Those that stood up were either chastized, or had their character assasinated.
C - Democracy is majority rule while protecting the minority. It was also once said by a great statesman that "The more successful you are, the more you have responsibility and are in debt to society."
D - They weaken infrastructure that would have been the safeguard to the poorest of them all, and those that could not protect themselves. Laissez-faire as we know was not a good thing, and that is what is coming back right now.
2 - Katrina-related
A - Rather than figure out how to pay for the damage and consider a more fiscally responsible approach, most of the payment will be done through borrowing. We are amazingly owned by the Chinese and other economies.
B - They are proposing to cut military health benefits for their dependents and servicemen, rather than scale back the tax-cuts that pretty much only helped the top 1%.
C - They weakened FEMA since 2001, which is the Federal Emergency Management Agency that deals with the aftermath responses to natural disasters and terrorist attacks. We already suffered in September 2001 from an attack, does it not make sense that they would strengthen such a program?
D - Kerry proposed strengthening the Gulf Coast system in 2004. This guy, pretty much vacillated just like he did when 2001 hit. He remained in place and continued on his vacation. One would expect a more active leadership role, before a well known possibility would hit. Blanco asked for Federal help in a memo days before it hit the city.
E - They killed a proposed Independent Commission to figure out what happened during Katrina and where things went wrong.
F - They mention that People should not play the blame game, while trying to shift much of the blame to either the local government(which does deserve some of it), Environmentalists (which stopped a levee strengthening program that was ill-planned) and whomever they could (a.k.a. Bill Clinton)

With this guy, I can go on all day, and still miss a few other things that has been going on during this administration.

I can probably add WashingtonPost, NY Times and Reuters articles for most that I have mentioned. But in general, that is a few of the reasons... But, I can't hate him...

I mean, check this out?
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
Who knows?
Dark_Tears
I'm sick of people saying that President Bush should be impeached beacuse they hate him. Thats not a real reason. People also seemed to be blaming the war on Bush. Comgress and House of Representatives declairs and pass the bills for war not the President.

Read your history and go take a civic's class somewhere.

Give me facts why you hate him if you do. Not I feel s**t because you base it on how you feel. You can't
Don't give me the iraq war was for oil because it was not, because no one gave me facts or anything about it

actually, thats the first reason. congress never declared war, they just gave Bush permission to do it, which they are not allowed to do.
Though i thinkl we should remove most of congress for that one instead of bush
I'll stop hating Bush and his administration when we find the WMD's. That work for you?

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