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GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

blackheartgirl2
GunsmithKitten
If it's your choice, it's your choice, I won't think any less or more of you. Still, I despise the idealogy behind the clothing, as it's simultaneously insulting to women (your body is shameful and must be kept hidden) and men (who are all raging sex maniacs who will do god knows what if you're not covered head to toe).


no your body is not shameful but it is yours, why should any one else make you just a body to be gawked at. a women is a person, with thoughts and feelings but if you are half naked. men are only going to see a body.


again, way to insult men there. I live in an area filled to the brim with rednecks, and I don't experience that, AND I don't go by Islamic dress code, which even my sweatshirt/jeans combo wouldn't pass.

I wear my hair loose because it's frankly more comfortable that way. I don't even like wearing hats. It's not because I want to provoke boners, it's because I don't ******** feel like adjusting a cap over my head. Maybe you've got a dirty mind and think that every male out there is eyeballing you for sex, but life experience has taught me that men aren't always like that, and I'm a confirmed paranoid. I give them more credit than that.

And NO, I'm njot saying I'm fond of women who prance about half naked either. I have no desire to show off cleavage (as if I had much to show) or my a** crack or even my stomach, and I don't really care to see it in other girls either out of personal taste.
Sanguina Cruenta's avatar

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How you take to them is completely irrelevant, that's so what.


Much like your notion of 'intention'.

Yep, but that still leaves me a leg to stand on, now doesn't it. wink

Nope

I was referring to the fact that the reason it was made is not to insult, hence the difference between positive and negative sexism. Just because it produces a negative outcome does not mean that the intention is negative. For instance, I can rearrange your room as a surprise because I believe that you would want that, but it turns that you did not want this and are angry that I did it. This is different then if I rearrange your room as a surprise because I want you to be angry. This is the same difference between positive and negative sexism - the former is being nice but shortsighted, while the other is just being a p***k.


Is intention all that important, if the results are the same? If someone is sexist, and it's degrading, dehumanising and insulting but they think they are being nice, personally I think that's worse. I'd rather they were at least aware that they were being a total dickhole.

Of course I am privileged to live in a country that ranks well for gender equality, so my personal opinion on this particular matter is very much biased.
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A simple veil and modest clothing is all that is needed to satisfy the quran's dress code.

The Burqa is not a Muslim thing, it is an Arab culture thing.
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blackheartgirl2
The Irish Economy
I don't think youll find to many Muslim women around the forums.

However, as my part as a man, I see Hijab as mandatory clothing that should be worn, but I detest Niqab weather the woman chooses to wear it or not.


why?


The Niqab is an Un-islamic cultural garb that while is chosen to be worn by many women, is forced on many more, it's impractical and quite imposing to look at.
Neither. I still dress modestly though.
blackheartgirl2
What is your opinion of of women that wear hijab/niqab? Do you respect them more or less and why?


I respect them less, because I have less information about them.
Sanguina Cruenta
Jubilant Sunrise
Anon E. Mouse
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Anon E. Mouse
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How you take to them is completely irrelevant, that's so what.


Much like your notion of 'intention'.

Yep, but that still leaves me a leg to stand on, now doesn't it. wink

Nope

I was referring to the fact that the reason it was made is not to insult, hence the difference between positive and negative sexism. Just because it produces a negative outcome does not mean that the intention is negative. For instance, I can rearrange your room as a surprise because I believe that you would want that, but it turns that you did not want this and are angry that I did it. This is different then if I rearrange your room as a surprise because I want you to be angry. This is the same difference between positive and negative sexism - the former is being nice but shortsighted, while the other is just being a p***k.


Is intention all that important, if the results are the same? If someone is sexist, and it's degrading, dehumanising and insulting but they think they are being nice, personally I think that's worse. I'd rather they were at least aware that they were being a total dickhole.

Of course I am privileged to live in a country that ranks well for gender equality, so my personal opinion on this particular matter is very much biased.


I'm not referring to sexism that is insulting. I am referring to sexism that is not insulting - for instance, "A woman's body is a temple of beauty." While that is, at least according to the person I was responding to, sexist, it is not insulting in the slightest.
Sanguina Cruenta
blackheartgirl2
GunsmithKitten
If it's your choice, it's your choice, I won't think any less or more of you. Still, I despise the idealogy behind the clothing, as it's simultaneously insulting to women (your body is shameful and must be kept hidden) and men (who are all raging sex maniacs who will do god knows what if you're not covered head to toe).


no your body is not shameful but it is yours, why should any one else make you just a body to be gawked at. a women is a person, with thoughts and feelings but if you are half naked. men are only going to see a body.


That's a rather insulting attitude to have about men. I have men who are my friends, and men who are my acquaintances, who look at me and see a person and equal. Not a body.

As your body is yours, you are free to wear what you wish, as are others who might elect to be "half naked". 3nodding But wear it because it makes you feel comfortable and happy.


I have a lot of male friends too and they think of me as a person as a friend and an equal but not all men are like that and even if i saw my friends in a tank top and short shorts they are going to have a strong opinion on the way i look good or bad.

And i know there are guys out there that look at a girl that is wearing almost nothing and only see a body.

Of course they are free to wear what they want, i'm not saying they can't. I never would! Yes wear it to be happy and comfortable but you shouldn't wear it just to impress guys or anything like that. When you do, you become just a body to them.
GunsmithKitten
blackheartgirl2
GunsmithKitten
If it's your choice, it's your choice, I won't think any less or more of you. Still, I despise the idealogy behind the clothing, as it's simultaneously insulting to women (your body is shameful and must be kept hidden) and men (who are all raging sex maniacs who will do god knows what if you're not covered head to toe).


no your body is not shameful but it is yours, why should any one else make you just a body to be gawked at. a women is a person, with thoughts and feelings but if you are half naked. men are only going to see a body.


again, way to insult men there. I live in an area filled to the brim with rednecks, and I don't experience that, AND I don't go by Islamic dress code, which even my sweatshirt/jeans combo wouldn't pass.

I wear my hair loose because it's frankly more comfortable that way. I don't even like wearing hats. It's not because I want to provoke boners, it's because I don't ******** feel like adjusting a cap over my head. Maybe you've got a dirty mind and think that every male out there is eyeballing you for sex, but life experience has taught me that men aren't always like that, and I'm a confirmed paranoid. I give them more credit than that.

And NO, I'm njot saying I'm fond of women who prance about half naked either. I have no desire to show off cleavage (as if I had much to show) or my a** crack or even my stomach, and I don't really care to see it in other girls either out of personal taste.


From my experience men are like that. I know it can't be all men, i have good male friends that are not like that but i have experience with men that treat women like they are only a body. I haven't seen it towards me but to other women and i would never want it to happen to me.

I respect you opinion because it is yours, and the reason behind this was to get people opinions. I am not trying to say every girl should cover, But i did want to explain my view after you said covering is insulting to women.
The Irish Economy
blackheartgirl2
The Irish Economy
I don't think youll find to many Muslim women around the forums.

However, as my part as a man, I see Hijab as mandatory clothing that should be worn, but I detest Niqab weather the woman chooses to wear it or not.


why?


The Niqab is an Un-islamic cultural garb that while is chosen to be worn by many women, is forced on many more, it's impractical and quite imposing to look at.



You do make a lot of sense. Thank you very much.

And anything forced on someone is bad.
Lucky~9~Lives
blackheartgirl2
What is your opinion of of women that wear hijab/niqab? Do you respect them more or less and why?


I respect them less, because I have less information about them.


What do you mean you have less information?
Blood Valkyrie
I'm not a Muslim, but I think that hijabs are absolutely adorable. They enhance the natural beauty of a woman's face, and they give a woman a sweet and modest appearance.

I once saw a young Muslim woman in a hijab. She had the most beautiful face, with bright eyes, plump lips, round cheeks, a straight nose, and a sweet gentle voice. Her hijab was a pretty white with sparkly gold embroidery and tassels. I use her image as inspiration for the stories I write.


Thank you very much for your opinion biggrin
Sanguina Cruenta's avatar

Eloquent Bloodsucker

blackheartgirl2
I have a lot of male friends too and they think of me as a person as a friend and an equal but not all men are like that and even if i saw my friends in a tank top and short shorts they are going to have a strong opinion on the way i look good or bad.

And i know there are guys out there that look at a girl that is wearing almost nothing and only see a body.


So what? Why care whether some random guy happens to glance at you and like what he sees? Why should you change what you wear just because of what men may or may not think about it? I mean, there are probably plenty of men who look at a woman in a niqab and all they see is a body. It may be that there are fewer people - in Western countries at least - responding to a woman in a niqab as a person, because of the deliberate covering of the face; we communicate and connect interpersonally so much through our faces. But then when it comes to this sort of thing, it may be hard to tell whether it's more about the covering or more about anti-Muslim bigotry. I'm just putting forward a hypothesis here. wink

I reason that, whatever it is, someone is going to be sexually attracted to it. Type "hijab porn" into google. I promise you that if you're walking around in a hijab, someone out there is going to see you and think "man, I'd love to rip that off her and do dirty dirty things". Someone has already pointed out how beautiful a hijab can be, after all... if the object is to lessen people's sexy thoughts about you, a woman in a hijab wouldn't wear make up. They often do, so it can't just be about being unsexy, at least for those particular women.

There's less niqab porn, possibly because it's hard to suck c**k if your face is covered, but you still get 10 pages of google results. So. Yeah.

Quote:
Of course they are free to wear what they want, i'm not saying they can't. I never would! Yes wear it to be happy and comfortable but you shouldn't wear it just to impress guys or anything like that. When you do, you become just a body to them.


I didn't infer that you were criticising women who didn't wear a hijab, so you can rest easy on that wink What I'm saying is, I think the reasons you've stated for wearing these things are poor. You want to wear one? Great, wear one. *shrug* You don't need to put down men by implying they're all misogynistic sex-maniacs just to give yourself a reason.

If you're dressing because of what men might think, you're dressing for men, regardless of whether you're wearing a miniskirt or a niqab. Dress for yourself instead.
Sanguina Cruenta's avatar

Eloquent Bloodsucker

Jubilant Sunrise
I'm not referring to sexism that is insulting. I am referring to sexism that is not insulting - for instance, "A woman's body is a temple of beauty." While that is, at least according to the person I was responding to, sexist, it is not insulting in the slightest.


Your original suggestion included "...and should only be seen by those who deserve to see it". Surely that is up to the woman to decide who is deserving, and how much should be seen, and how and where and why. The insulting part is the reduction of women to something beautiful, by default, that should be locked away and protected.

But then I find sexism insulting by default. Don't you?

Are men's bodies temples of beauty?
Salaam, sister. cat_3nodding I hope you remember me. Sorry that I quit PMing you suddenly, life caught up with me.

I choose to dress modestly, keeping at least from the armpits to mid-thigh covered and wearing loose clothing as often as I can vs. tight clothing, but not to wear a headscarf.

I think you can tell by my signature that I am also a very, very liberal revert.

So maybe you do not want my opinion because of how interpretive rather than literal I am about our faith. cat_sweatdrop

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