Anti-feminists- What do you do?

[Lets Eat Pizza]

Wigwam the Dodo

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Oh how I have wronged!

[GSK Lives]

Wigwam the Dodo

Lets Eat Pizza

BiBiBabydoll

Lets Eat Pizza

GSK Lives

DHMIS Paige

It depends to what specifics, and if it was aimed at certain women or not. But my line up starts with my men and them having their rights before I go to anything else.

Such a move would be aimed at all women, period. It would dictate that you cannot make any single decision legally or financially in your interest, only your father or husband can. You cannot own property. You cannot have a job outside of the home. You cannot choose your spouse. You cannot make decisions about your medical care.

So yea, that would affect people's environments BIG TIME.

See, I personally would have no issue since I'm a more old fashioned woman.
Does that mean my lifestyle is right for others? No.

Do you have the right to vote?
Do you have the right to wear pants?
Do you have the right to use any forms of birth control?
There are so many more, but yes. The answers to all of these questions are yes, whether you utilize the rights and opportunities is not the point. The point is that you have the CHOICE to.

Exactly. I have the right to choose, and yet you're attacking me for my right to be against feminism. lol

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Except Let's doesn't even think we should be allowed, as women, to choose that. Go on. Go back and read how she said she wouldn't be bothered a bit if women were to lose all agency and voting right sin society. She'd ******** us all over.

[Wigwam the Dodo]

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

Well there's a reason why you don't hear any MRA's, including myself, use that term to describe ourselves. It does sound rather off putting in a way as it implies that it's the 100% exact opposite of what feminism is, but in a way that actually compliments feminism instead of combating it. So I guess you could say the terms meaning is up in the air, but it's definitely not a label I want putting on myself.

You have to do a little digging to find women using the term on themselves. It's pretty much used by feminists that are very naive to the ideologies of both feminism and MRA concepts, bit it's pretty much window dressing to claim that they're for equality when they never once advocated for the rights of men other than "men should wear skirts without being shamed". rolleyes

What are you and the MRM the new semantic authority now? Who gave any of you/us/whatever the authority to proclaim this and that term don't exist, or that noone applies to it? That's a bit silly isn't it? And kind of a sidestep.

s**t man I don't put the term on myself either, but in all honesty that's only because I've never thought about it long enough to figure out what it really means. So yeah, it's up in the air.

Also, I'd quite like for skirts to become unisex apparel to be honest. Some of them look quite nice.

Paul Elam himself stated that he wouldn't use the term "masculinist" to describe his movement as he stated that the term sounds a bit too much like it has idology in it and that it put a "men first" spin on things. That was his gripe with the term as it sounds like it's made to put men first in the same way that feminism puts women first. I don't necessarily agree with his idea of what the word means but being that the term is so obscure, it's definiton of course is up for debate. Though I still say that there is no such thing as there's only MRAs and feminists. "Masculinist" STILL sounds like a word that is used to work with feminism to me though, when we should be fighting it.

I just wonder what people would rather have. The right to walk outside in a skirt without people criticising, or the right to not have your kids and money taken away because of a vindictive woman. I have yet to see a feminist truly fight for the latter.

Didn't Elam also publically state that wearing a short skirt at a dance club was openly begging to be raped though?

I'm very weary of what that kind of man has to say about anything really, but that's only when it's relevant. What he wouldn't call himself doesn't really matter.

Like at all.
Not even a little bit.

As for the skirts vs money deal, I have to ask why we're limiting ourselves. Aim for both!

Well I don't know if I can blame you for not believing him given that he may have made some mean comments here and there. Those a lot of these people that hate Elam also have not seen the videos that he posts on his channels where he has conversations with various people from his site. You see a lot more calmer side of him that many people, including a bunch of people from the r/MensRights subreddit choose to ignore. People just aren't acceptive of others after they say one bad thing, despite what his real beliefs are and how they would actually be agreeable to 90% of the population if they took the time to listen.

You could aim for both sure, though last time I checked, there was no law for men to not go outside wearing skirts as it is. Since they already can, though no one else would like it including themselves.

There are a lot of things that are currently legal but which are still being argued over and fought for/against, so I figure men in skirts is no different at current.

And it's not that I doubt Elam, or hate him as such. It's that, him having a "calm" side doesn't really erase or excuse what amounts to a pretty disgusting underside to him that makes me doubt not his word but if I want to abide by it, and how strictly. Elam is not god, his word is not gospel, therefore I consider myself at liberty to cherrypick that of his works I like, and reject that which I don't. And I don't like the idea that anyone ever begs to be raped by passive virtue of how they dress or act. That's not the attitude of a leader I want to rally behind, regardless of how calm* he may be at other times.

*Also I don't get how "calm" is relevant. I don't think of Elam as angry or enraged, I think of him as, atleast partially, a particularly unpleasant character.

[Wigwam the Dodo]

Lets Eat Pizza

Wigwam the Dodo

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Oh how I have wronged!

Mhm.
Forgiveness doesn't come cheap homeslice

[GSK Lives]

Lets Eat Pizza

Wigwam the Dodo

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Oh how I have wronged!

Except in your case, you have. You said yourself you're not bothered if women lose all agency in society.

See, I would fight for you to have agency to make choices. You wouldn't do the same for me.

[Wigwam the Dodo]

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

How typical.

wait
typical of what

Typical of GSK to come in here and hate on men like she usually does.

Honestly I'm not seeing any hate aimed at men. She's irrational, incredibly dense and naive, and most definitely a budding megalomaniac obsessed with image and shallow displays of power.

But misandry, I'm not spotting it. You've gotten your tackle in a spin over this from what I've seen based on very little grounding. You're paranoid man.

I won't deny that. Least I'd be honest about it unlike GSK who constantly would paint a false narrative to make me look like the bad guy. Your assessment of her character is spot on though.

Atleast there's that. It's like 4chan vs tumblr all over again.

[Wigwam the Dodo]

GSK Lives

Wigwam the Dodo

Lets Eat Pizza

BiBiBabydoll

Lets Eat Pizza

See, I personally would have no issue since I'm a more old fashioned woman.
Does that mean my lifestyle is right for others? No.

Do you have the right to vote?
Do you have the right to wear pants?
Do you have the right to use any forms of birth control?
There are so many more, but yes. The answers to all of these questions are yes, whether you utilize the rights and opportunities is not the point. The point is that you have the CHOICE to.

Exactly. I have the right to choose, and yet you're attacking me for my right to be against feminism. lol

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Except Let's doesn't even think we should be allowed, as women, to choose that. Go on. Go back and read how she said she wouldn't be bothered a bit if women were to lose all agency and voting right sin society. She'd ******** us all over.

I'm getting bored of these shallow accusations.
Back your word up, I'm not interested enough otherwise. Go and find my evidence for me doesn't work very well. Work out how burden of proof works.

[Lets Eat Pizza]

BiBiBabydoll

I love how you pretend like females couldn't do most of that, or that it was feminism that 'allowed' it to happen.

Most of the crap is laughable, though. There is quite a bit of things that you listed that females benefit more than men and have been able to do for a very long while, even more than men.

-1. The right to vote
2. The right to own property

*Women in many cultures have done this for centuries, right along side men.


-4. The right to wear PANTS (That's right. It used to be ILLEGAL for women to wear pants)
* No one needs to wear pants anyways. Stop pretending this is an issue.

-5. The right to be educated (It used to be that only boys could get an education)
*Uhm... No. Most females were taught at home so that they could learn household work along with regular studies. This saved on time for the families. Sending men of to regular schools prepared them for more things that females would face. Females have always been educated in the right ways. Stop pretending this is an issue.

-7. Your right to say no (marital rape used to be 100% LEGAL)
*This worked both ways, darling. Gotta look at certain cultures. Everyone has always had the right to say no. It's those who never wanted to leave the relationship who complain.

-8. They made abortion a safe procedure by pushing to legalize it (Abortion happens whether it's legal or not. It used to be extremely painful and often fatal)
*Feminism didn't make abortion safe or pushed it to be legal. Feminism had nothing to do with it. Most feminists I KNOW are against abortion as it is, so you're using a very bad excuse to push feminism into such.

-9. Women make almost as much as men (salaries)
*Then they, as women, need to properly educate themselves, get the training, etc to be as good in that field instead of whining. Whining doesn't get you raises, doll.

-12. You don’t have to quit working when you get married
13. You can’t be fired or denied a job just because you’re pregnant
14. You can choose whether to work or stay home
*I have never heard of a woman having to quit work when she married. My mother has never heard of that, so I'm guessing you're spewing stuff.
You should be denied a job when pregnant depending on health issues.
Feminism didn't help women choosing if they wanted to work or stay home. A woman/couple makes that choice for themselves. lol

And I could go on, but it's about time I get my son from school. But petty reasons, to which most don't even exist within feminism, is all you're giving. And the one for men? Bullcrap here and there. Feminism has made it worse for men regarding rape, child support, child cases, has done NOTHING for men and war (because if you refuse to sign up for Selective Service- or do you not know what happens to a male?), and health services? HA.

Have fun with your fantasies, but you're really, really out of the loop on what people, not feminists, have done to help others. Feminism, though, still hurts everyone more than helps.

You are free to your opinion, but statistics, protests, petitions, etc from feminists state otherwise.

[GSK Lives]

Wigwam the Dodo

I'm getting bored of these shallow accusations.
Back your word up, I'm not interested enough otherwise. Go and find my evidence for me doesn't work very well. Work out how burden of proof works.

My PM box is clear, sadly, but ask Let's yourself. She'll not deny it. Seriously, ask her about the conversation she and I had in PM back in September.

[Lets Eat Pizza]

GSK Lives

Lets Eat Pizza

Wigwam the Dodo

Ammendment:
You have the right to choose correctly.
Dude noone wants to give anyone any actual freedom, that'd be silly. Can't demand fealty and gratitude from the free can you.

Oh how I have wronged!

Except in your case, you have. You said yourself you're not bothered if women lose all agency in society.

See, I would fight for you to have agency to make choices. You wouldn't do the same for me.

In your opinion, I have. In mine, I haven't.The joys!
I would not be bothered at all, yes. Because I solely don't care. I was raised in a certain way and prefer it, thus wouldn't bother me.

I'll fight for what is needed, not what people would rather whine about.

[Wigwam the Dodo]

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

Wigwam the Dodo

Yobyaxes R

Paul Elam himself stated that he wouldn't use the term "masculinist" to describe his movement as he stated that the term sounds a bit too much like it has idology in it and that it put a "men first" spin on things. That was his gripe with the term as it sounds like it's made to put men first in the same way that feminism puts women first. I don't necessarily agree with his idea of what the word means but being that the term is so obscure, it's definiton of course is up for debate. Though I still say that there is no such thing as there's only MRAs and feminists. "Masculinist" STILL sounds like a word that is used to work with feminism to me though, when we should be fighting it.

I just wonder what people would rather have. The right to walk outside in a skirt without people criticising, or the right to not have your kids and money taken away because of a vindictive woman. I have yet to see a feminist truly fight for the latter.

Didn't Elam also publically state that wearing a short skirt at a dance club was openly begging to be raped though?

I'm very weary of what that kind of man has to say about anything really, but that's only when it's relevant. What he wouldn't call himself doesn't really matter.

Like at all.
Not even a little bit.

As for the skirts vs money deal, I have to ask why we're limiting ourselves. Aim for both!

Well I don't know if I can blame you for not believing him given that he may have made some mean comments here and there. Those a lot of these people that hate Elam also have not seen the videos that he posts on his channels where he has conversations with various people from his site. You see a lot more calmer side of him that many people, including a bunch of people from the r/MensRights subreddit choose to ignore. People just aren't acceptive of others after they say one bad thing, despite what his real beliefs are and how they would actually be agreeable to 90% of the population if they took the time to listen.

You could aim for both sure, though last time I checked, there was no law for men to not go outside wearing skirts as it is. Since they already can, though no one else would like it including themselves.

There are a lot of things that are currently legal but which are still being argued over and fought for/against, so I figure men in skirts is no different at current.

And it's not that I doubt Elam, or hate him as such. It's that, him having a "calm" side doesn't really erase or excuse what amounts to a pretty disgusting underside to him that makes me doubt not his word but if I want to abide by it, and how strictly. Elam is not god, his word is not gospel, therefore I consider myself at liberty to cherrypick that of his works I like, and reject that which I don't. And I don't like the idea that anyone ever begs to be raped by passive virtue of how they dress or act. That's not the attitude of a leader I want to rally behind, regardless of how calm* he may be at other times.

*Also I don't get how "calm" is relevant. I don't think of Elam as angry or enraged, I think of him as, atleast partially, a particularly unpleasant character.

Well it doesn't really matter what you think about him at the end of the day. Besides, he may not have made that statement about the skirt. Though whether he did or didn't doesn't matter to me so long as I know that he's still fighting the good fight. Hell, Space Navy talks a lot of s**t, but I'll still be friends with him regardless because I don't believe we should let our personal beliefs on each other based on non factors get in the way of actual activism.

But still, if it's legal for men to wear skirts already yet none of them do it, then what's the real issue in that regard?

idunno
I guess I want the fashion industry, specifically the ones supplying major retailers instead of catwalk fashion shows, to push male-centric skirts and such. Women have a range of fashion options that makes me somewhat envious is all.

I won't stand behind and carry the banner of a leader that I don't like, even if I will still fight in some of his battles, and I won't exactly begrudge him being attributed the glory of the victories. But basically, I will not fall in step behind Elam (if he is even partially the sour and thuggish pseudo-rapist the supposed quotes would suggest, story changes if his name is cleared of all "charges" wink but I'll still be a soldier in his army, sort of.

Not that I like the militant attitude of this whole shitstorm but the analogy works