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Sue?

Don't they realise that by supporting a team with a "controversial" name ( "Controversial" here meaning "mostly disliked by white liberals who feel the need to get offended on the behalf of a group that largely doesn't care," which gets back into that whole "white man's burden" thing again, but it's OK if it's for a good cause like Liberalism ) that they lose all rights?

They are wrong, and their being wrong negates any damages they may perceive, as well as any legal protections afforded them.

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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.


Argumentum ad FoxNewsem.

If Fox News says it, it must be a lie. That's not a Navajo code-talker, it's a white man playing dress up. Even if he was a Navajo man who served as a code-talker during WWII, the simple fact that Fox News reported it makes it questionable at best, and an outright fabrication at worst.

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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.

I tut him. And also wonder if it's been used against him as a slur. It's thrown around up here a lot. It's why a lot of us aren't really bothered by the "Sioux" debate. Well, weren't bothered.

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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
Not a football fan myself, but I could take on those activists for disseminating misinformation. Earliest example of 'redskin' I've found has nothing to do with an alleged bounty, it is an account by early settlers from 1699: "Ye firste Meetinge House was solid mayde to withstande ye wicked onsaults of ye Red Skins." [sic] The OED says nothing about it denoting a bounty item, nor does it list it as offensive. The activist's description of the Annenberg survey was total BS as well, while the polling center is indeed located in PA, the question was asked via telephone of Indians living in all 48 contiguous states (they do not conduct surveys in AK and HI.) 91% edit: 90% surveyed found the name inoffensive, 1% had no opinion..

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/most-indians-say-name-of-washington-redskins-is-acceptable-while-9-percent-call-it-offensive/

I find it amusing that these activists use the term "Indian". Maybe they'll get bored with redskin and move on to changing that.

I knew that was a crock. Redskin is one of those confused derogatory terms. None of my cousins who actually look NA have ever gotten a sunburn once in their lives. Just found a link saying it started with face paint. Don't know the accuracy, but it would make more sense. Leave it to the white man to try and label everyone else with colors.

Indian doesn't bother me because it's only somewhat offensive, and by somewhat I mean hardly at all. The dude thought he was in the Indies when he actually landed on a new continent. We're brown, they're brown. Wildly different culture from the Europeans. White people would see everyone else as savages anyway. It's not a racial term as much as it is a mislabeling.
Lucky, but I hope they use sunscreen nonetheless, melanoma does not discriminate and even black people can get it from too much UV exposure. I've seen Indians who had copper-colored skin, and red and copper are often used interchangeably, as they are with hair. Only hair I've seen that was a true shade of red was achieved via Manic Panic but my old bff was a redhead and her hair was a gorgeous shade of copper.

Interesting, I didn't know the Lenapes painted their faces vermilion - a color also known as Chinese red. Wonder what they used as a pigment. Half the towns and places where I grew up have Lenape names, but the people themselves were forcibly relocated to OK and elsewhere, we didn't learn much about any of them besides Tamanend in schools .

I think the Canadian term First Nations is the best. I never liked the term 'native American" because it implies that the millions of people born here who are not part of a tribe are somehow not native to their country of birth.

My grandmother actually had a sun allergy, I have a mild version, so I'll only tan if I let myself scorch, and I have to stay outside and burn some more while it heals. No thanks. I'll stay pale. I do have a love/hate relationship with my red hair, though. It's darkened up into a brownish red now, I was a baby carrot once, and I'm thinking of dying it again.

I hear that term occasionally too. The crazy thing about Canada is how many recognized languages they still have.

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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.

I tut him. And also wonder if it's been used against him as a slur. It's thrown around up here a lot. It's why a lot of us aren't really bothered by the "Sioux" debate. Well, weren't bothered.
Well, he's 87, so if he has not been insulted yet I don't think it's going to happen. What was the "Sioux" debate? That sucks. Is it used as an insult by whites only or do Indians use it to insult each other too?

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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.


Argumentum ad FoxNewsem.

If Fox News says it, it must be a lie. That's not a Navajo code-talker, it's a white man playing dress up. Even if he was a Navajo man who served as a code-talker during WWII, the simple fact that Fox News reported it makes it questionable at best, and an outright fabrication at worst.
I'm sure I could hunt down a Daily Mail article to prove Fox was being truthful in this unique instance. 3nodding

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I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.


Argumentum ad FoxNewsem.

If Fox News says it, it must be a lie. That's not a Navajo code-talker, it's a white man playing dress up. Even if he was a Navajo man who served as a code-talker during WWII, the simple fact that Fox News reported it makes it questionable at best, and an outright fabrication at worst.
I'm sure I could hunt down a Daily Mail article to prove Fox was being truthful in this unique instance. 3nodding


After I posted this, I went ahead and googled "Argumentum ad Fox Newsem," just as a lark, and I was shocked that the number of responses that turned up were greater than zero. Apparently, this is a thing now.

Arguing anything that was argued on Fox News is a logical fallacy, now.

I'm'll . . . I'm'll go back to watching Attack on Titan, try to forget the sad state the world's now in. I'm only a few episodes in, but I find myself haunted by the look of relief on the Smiling Titan's face whenever he ( she? It? I think "it" might be more proper ) devoured a human. So many of the others had similar looks of relief in the same situation, or looks of discomfort when not seeing a victim, it makes me think there is something going on with 'em, like devouring people helps them, somehow, like they're looking for something, almost

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Well, he's 87, so if he has not been insulted yet I don't think it's going to happen. What was the "Sioux" debate? That sucks. Is it used as an insult by whites only or do Indians use it to insult each other too?

The Fighting Sioux debate; one of the top college teams and highly infamous due to their refusal to change their name and logo. They're not allowed to host a national tournament ever again until they officially do the change. Here's a picture of the mascot that's embedded, every ten feet, into one of the best hockey rinks/basketball halls in the state.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

It's beautiful, but apparently it's offensive because it was drawn by someone from my tribe, Chippewa, and not a member of the Sioux, and I guess it looks more Chippewa than Sioux. Don't ask me how much profiling was involved in that decision. Just found the history of UND logos:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
As you can see we've reverted back to the geometric design.

As for the name, I've found a pretty good explanation.
http://www.midwestweekends.com/plan_a_trip/history_heritage/american_indians/dakota_ojibwe.html
Ojibwe or Chippewa, Dakota or Sioux?
Here's what you need to know about the Upper Midwest's indigenous people.
A tourist dances at a Pipestone powwow.

© Beth Gauper

At powwows, especially traditional ones, visitors are welcome and often encouraged to join dancers in the sacred circle.

Wisconsin and Minnesota have two main tribes. The Ojibwe migrated from the east along the Great Lakes, pushed by newly arrived Europeans and other tribes.

With the help of guns acquired in the fur trade, they pushed the Dakota south and west in the 18th century and replaced them in the north woods.

The Dakota are thought to be descendants of the Woodland Indians who built effigy mounds in the Upper Midwest. Today, they live in small communities along the Minnesota and Mississippi river valleys and in South Dakota.

Nationally, the Ojibwe and Dakota are the third- and fourth-largest Indian nations.

Sometimes, tribal names cause confusion. The Ojibwe's name was shortened into Chippewa by French traders, and Chippewa still is the legal name of many bands, especially in Wisconsin.

The name Anishinabe, or "the original people," has spiritual meaning and is what one Ojibwe calls another.

The term Ojibwe is used most often when referring to tribal culture and tradition.

The term Dakota — also Lakota and Nakota, on the prairies farther west — is the tribe's own word for "allies." But historically, they have been known as the Sioux, a word thought to have come from the French-Canadian nadouessioux, derived from an Ottawa word for "little snakes."

Although the name Sioux was meant to be derogatory, it has become associated with courage and bravery over the years, and many Dakota, especially elders, still bear it proudly.

Many non-Indians think they should use the term "native American" when referring to the indigenous people of the United States, but many tribal members prefer "Indian" if an umbrella term must be used.

In Canada, the umbrella term is "aboriginal," and communities are called "first nations."

But since people in both countries consider themselves members of separate nations rather than a common race, it is best to use tribal affiliations, such as Dakota or Ojibwe, whenever possible.

The hate for this name is from the suggestion that the Metis (mixed races, usually of select Native tribes and French or Scottish descent) coined the term first, but I'm more ashamed knowing that my tribe egged on this battle. Our council wanted to build a casino in town, but the City didn't want a revenue like that, especially since most profits would go to the tribe. You know how addicting gambling is. Rumor has it they got pissed off and egged on the battle using the premise that "if we can't do what we want, then you can't play with our stuff," quite literally.


As for the redskin thing, that's a bit confusing to me, too. I grew up in sort of a white trashy neighborhood far from the reservation, and I and my sisters mostly look very white. I'm a freaking ginger, so naturally people aren't going to call us that unless we tell them. There was that one tardy kid who'd call me an apple because I wasn't as native as he was, apparently. At my grandparents' house there was a lot of yelling, but you swear once and you better hope there's not a belt or wooden spoon in the immediate area. I hadn't heard the term until I was 13-14 during a comedy sketch. Apparently some of us are trying to take the term back, like *****. I was telling my friend about the joke because I hadn't seen a professional Native comedian before and I wanted them to look for the guy, and I said that word... you would have thought I chopped off a kitten's head. His family stared at me for a full minute before someone explained it to me. They were pissed off at me, but not nearly as much as they were at my family for never explaining that part of my heritage.

I've been called it just a couple times, and my father almost threw a guy out a window (not exaggerating) because he was a punk a** over privileged white kid who thought it was cool to refer to Native women as squaw in a time when it was being mislabeled as "v****a" instead of "woman" and is now recognized as a derogatory word simply because people took that mistaken definition and ran with it in every direction. Both the people insulted by it and those who intended to insult others with it. This dude clearly meant to insult when he was talking about how loose the girls from our reservation are, like he'd ever met them before...

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Well, he's 87, so if he has not been insulted yet I don't think it's going to happen. What was the "Sioux" debate? That sucks. Is it used as an insult by whites only or do Indians use it to insult each other too?

The Fighting Sioux debate; one of the top college teams and highly infamous due to their refusal to change their name and logo. They're not allowed to host a national tournament ever again until they officially do the change. Here's a picture of the mascot that's embedded, every ten feet, into one of the best hockey rinks/basketball halls in the state.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

It's beautiful, but apparently it's offensive because it was drawn by someone from my tribe, Chippewa, and not a member of the Sioux, and I guess it looks more Chippewa than Sioux. Don't ask me how much profiling was involved in that decision. Just found the history of UND logos:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
As you can see we've reverted back to the geometric design.

As for the name, I've found a pretty good explanation.
http://www.midwestweekends.com/plan_a_trip/history_heritage/american_indians/dakota_ojibwe.html
Ojibwe or Chippewa, Dakota or Sioux?
Here's what you need to know about the Upper Midwest's indigenous people.
A tourist dances at a Pipestone powwow.

© Beth Gauper

At powwows, especially traditional ones, visitors are welcome and often encouraged to join dancers in the sacred circle.

Wisconsin and Minnesota have two main tribes. The Ojibwe migrated from the east along the Great Lakes, pushed by newly arrived Europeans and other tribes.

With the help of guns acquired in the fur trade, they pushed the Dakota south and west in the 18th century and replaced them in the north woods.

The Dakota are thought to be descendants of the Woodland Indians who built effigy mounds in the Upper Midwest. Today, they live in small communities along the Minnesota and Mississippi river valleys and in South Dakota.

Nationally, the Ojibwe and Dakota are the third- and fourth-largest Indian nations.

Sometimes, tribal names cause confusion. The Ojibwe's name was shortened into Chippewa by French traders, and Chippewa still is the legal name of many bands, especially in Wisconsin.

The name Anishinabe, or "the original people," has spiritual meaning and is what one Ojibwe calls another.

The term Ojibwe is used most often when referring to tribal culture and tradition.

The term Dakota — also Lakota and Nakota, on the prairies farther west — is the tribe's own word for "allies." But historically, they have been known as the Sioux, a word thought to have come from the French-Canadian nadouessioux, derived from an Ottawa word for "little snakes."

Although the name Sioux was meant to be derogatory, it has become associated with courage and bravery over the years, and many Dakota, especially elders, still bear it proudly.

Many non-Indians think they should use the term "native American" when referring to the indigenous people of the United States, but many tribal members prefer "Indian" if an umbrella term must be used.

In Canada, the umbrella term is "aboriginal," and communities are called "first nations."

But since people in both countries consider themselves members of separate nations rather than a common race, it is best to use tribal affiliations, such as Dakota or Ojibwe, whenever possible.

The hate for this name is from the suggestion that the Metis (mixed races, usually of select Native tribes and French or Scottish descent) coined the term first, but I'm more ashamed knowing that my tribe egged on this battle. Our council wanted to build a casino in town, but the City didn't want a revenue like that, especially since most profits would go to the tribe. You know how addicting gambling is. Rumor has it they got pissed off and egged on the battle using the premise that "if we can't do what we want, then you can't play with our stuff," quite literally.


As for the redskin thing, that's a bit confusing to me, too. I grew up in sort of a white trashy neighborhood far from the reservation, and I and my sisters mostly look very white. I'm a freaking ginger, so naturally people aren't going to call us that unless we tell them. There was that one tardy kid who'd call me an apple because I wasn't as native as he was, apparently. At my grandparents' house there was a lot of yelling, but you swear once and you better hope there's not a belt or wooden spoon in the immediate area. I hadn't heard the term until I was 13-14 during a comedy sketch. Apparently some of us are trying to take the term back, like *****. I was telling my friend about the joke because I hadn't seen a professional Native comedian before and I wanted them to look for the guy, and I said that word... you would have thought I chopped off a kitten's head. His family stared at me for a full minute before someone explained it to me. They were pissed off at me, but not nearly as much as they were at my family for never explaining that part of my heritage.

I've been called it just a couple times, and my father almost threw a guy out a window (not exaggerating) because he was a punk a** over privileged white kid who thought it was cool to refer to Native women as squaw in a time when it was being mislabeled as "v****a" instead of "woman" and is now recognized as a derogatory word simply because people took that mistaken definition and ran with it in every direction. Both the people insulted by it and those who intended to insult others with it. This dude clearly meant to insult when he was talking about how loose the girls from our reservation are, like he'd ever met them before...
Hmph, so much for freedom of speech.

That is gorgeous. In what way does it look more Chippewa than Sioux? Something to do with the feather doodad? Isn't it great that they're still holding a grudge centuries later? That's worthy of the Scots themselves, the type of Scot who still won't speak to a Campbell because of something nasty that clan did in 1692.
*headdesk*

You have nothing to be ashamed of, you didn't hunt them yourself. If we're going to feel bad about every mean thing our ancestors ever did we won't have time to do anything else. Should I feel bad that my Scottish ancestors were forcibly removed to Ireland by my English ancestors? Obviously each and every Englishman and woman had a direct hand in that. Other half of the family is German and we know how well they got along with the British, bombing each other back and forth.

Uh, how is Chippewa a shortened form of Ojibwe? Same number of syllables in each word and Chippewa has more letters.

You really had never heard the word before you were a teen? You said earlier that it gets thrown about a lot where you live, is that a relatively new thing then? I thought you were in your early 20s, so for a very old word to go from one you never heard to one you hear a lot in only a few years seems odd.

I thought squaw meant wife before now, but that's only sometimes when it is used as a suffix, very interesting looking up its etymology. The Abenaki word for queen, Kinjamesiskua, literally means King James' wife - the very badly dressed Anne of Denmark. Wonder if they use the same word for drag queens. mrgreen
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I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
Not a football fan myself, but I could take on those activists for disseminating misinformation. Earliest example of 'redskin' I've found has nothing to do with an alleged bounty, it is an account by early settlers from 1699: "Ye firste Meetinge House was solid mayde to withstande ye wicked onsaults of ye Red Skins." [sic] The OED says nothing about it denoting a bounty item, nor does it list it as offensive. The activist's description of the Annenberg survey was total BS as well, while the polling center is indeed located in PA, the question was asked via telephone of Indians living in all 48 contiguous states (they do not conduct surveys in AK and HI.) 91% surveyed found the name inoffensive.

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/most-indians-say-name-of-washington-redskins-is-acceptable-while-9-percent-call-it-offensive/

I find it amusing that these activists use the term "Indian". Maybe they'll get bored with redskin and move on to changing that.
Learn something new every day.
Did you know that there are a number of primarily Indian schools whose teams are named Redskins?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_controversy#Other_teams_that_use_the_name_Redskins

It's hilarious that one of the principals of these schools thinks it's OK to use the word as long as only Indians are the ones using it. What is the opposing team supposed to call them? How about members of the team itself who are not Indians?


So then do you also believe that everyone should use words like '******' and 'f*****t' ? Or any other derogatory term used to label someone? Words have different connotations depending on who uses it.

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Hmph, so much for freedom of speech.

That is gorgeous. In what way does it look more Chippewa than Sioux? Something to do with the feather doodad? Isn't it great that they're still holding a grudge centuries later? That's worthy of the Scots themselves, the type of Scot who still won't speak to a Campbell because of something nasty that clan did in 1692.
*headdesk*

You have nothing to be ashamed of, you didn't hunt them yourself. If we're going to feel bad about every mean thing our ancestors ever did we won't have time to do anything else. Should I feel bad that my Scottish ancestors were forcibly removed to Ireland by my English ancestors? Obviously each and every Englishman and woman had a direct hand in that. Other half of the family is German and we know how well they got along with the British, bombing each other back and forth.

Uh, how is Chippewa a shortened form of Ojibwe? Same number of syllables in each word and Chippewa has more letters.

You really had never heard the word before you were a teen? You said earlier that it gets thrown about a lot where you live, is that a relatively new thing then? I thought you were in your early 20s, so for a very old word to go from one you never heard to one you hear a lot in only a few years seems odd.

I thought squaw meant wife before now, but that's only sometimes when it is used as a suffix, very interesting looking up its etymology. The Abenaki word for queen, Kinjamesiskua, literally means King James' wife - the very badly dressed Anne of Denmark. Wonder if they use the same word for drag queens. mrgreen

Oh my god, that's terrible. Does anyone even know what the argument was about?

Oh no, it's not about what my ancestors did. This is one of the recent councils who supposedly started crap up. It originally started with Sioux members being insulted, yet in government documents, on maps, by people, the Lakota Sioux are called Sioux. Mainly because they are the descendents of three tribes; the Lakota, Nakota, and Dakota, and it was incredibly offensive to call them by the wrong name back in the day.

Chip-pewa (slide through the 'e' so there are two syllables) and O-jib-we (click a bit on the 'j' and 'uh' the end) are the same thing. If you speak them in a French accent it's like shortening Josephine to Josie.

I had heard of the team, and it was actually one of the high school's mascots before they were forced to change it back in the 90s, I think. (makes me wonder why the NFL gets away with it for so long) I never really paid attention to racism as a kid because it never seemed like a problem to me, until a friend of mine started dating a guy from farther north, and he had d**k friends who'd call her a redskin and insult him for dating her.

It's been over ten years? Now I have a wider social circle and I speak out more often. Also, as an awkward child, people were more interested in harassing me for other things, and my few friends were raised like I was; we'd swear with each other, but neeeeever in front of family. I literally got smacked in the face for flipping off a disposable camera on a class trip because "it's rude to the men and women who have to develop them."

lol. It does have a lot of meanings, but that's why it's offensive when non-natives use it and not when natives do. Peter Pan doesn't help the situation. One of my favorites movies has one of my father's most hated scenes in it.

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I might not have the self control. I think they were just feeling the shame.

I'd just give them that dead eyed stare full of my disappointment.
I'd love to see you give that look to this Navajo code talker.


Argumentum ad FoxNewsem.

If Fox News says it, it must be a lie. That's not a Navajo code-talker, it's a white man playing dress up. Even if he was a Navajo man who served as a code-talker during WWII, the simple fact that Fox News reported it makes it questionable at best, and an outright fabrication at worst.
I'm sure I could hunt down a Daily Mail article to prove Fox was being truthful in this unique instance. 3nodding


After I posted this, I went ahead and googled "Argumentum ad Fox Newsem," just as a lark, and I was shocked that the number of responses that turned up were greater than zero. Apparently, this is a thing now.

Arguing anything that was argued on Fox News is a logical fallacy, now.

I'm'll . . . I'm'll go back to watching Attack on Titan, try to forget the sad state the world's now in. I'm only a few episodes in, but I find myself haunted by the look of relief on the Smiling Titan's face whenever he ( she? It? I think "it" might be more proper ) devoured a human. So many of the others had similar looks of relief in the same situation, or looks of discomfort when not seeing a victim, it makes me think there is something going on with 'em, like devouring people helps them, somehow, like they're looking for something, almost
Is it bad that I'd prefer that term to be in proper Latin? Argumentum ad Vulpis Nuntium is correct, I believe.

Haven't heard of it I'm afraid, I try to only have the TV on for new eps of Doctor Who lest I run across Law and Order and have to watch it for the rest of the day.

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Ratttking
I haven't considered The Daily Show to be comedic since Craig Kilborne left. If the show's producers lied to the fans regarding specifics of their appearance, then they have every right to sue and I hope they win their case.

I say if these pussies are too afraid to actually sit in the same room with a Native American while wearing sports gear, then it's time for the team to change their ******** name. Partially because it's offensive to assume that a Native American doesn't have the self control not to beat the s**t out of someone who ignorantly supports racism.
Not a football fan myself, but I could take on those activists for disseminating misinformation. Earliest example of 'redskin' I've found has nothing to do with an alleged bounty, it is an account by early settlers from 1699: "Ye firste Meetinge House was solid mayde to withstande ye wicked onsaults of ye Red Skins." [sic] The OED says nothing about it denoting a bounty item, nor does it list it as offensive. The activist's description of the Annenberg survey was total BS as well, while the polling center is indeed located in PA, the question was asked via telephone of Indians living in all 48 contiguous states (they do not conduct surveys in AK and HI.) 91% surveyed found the name inoffensive.

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/most-indians-say-name-of-washington-redskins-is-acceptable-while-9-percent-call-it-offensive/

I find it amusing that these activists use the term "Indian". Maybe they'll get bored with redskin and move on to changing that.
Learn something new every day.
Did you know that there are a number of primarily Indian schools whose teams are named Redskins?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_name_controversy#Other_teams_that_use_the_name_Redskins

It's hilarious that one of the principals of these schools thinks it's OK to use the word as long as only Indians are the ones using it. What is the opposing team supposed to call them? How about members of the team itself who are not Indians?


So then do you also believe that everyone should use words like '******' and 'f*****t' ? Or any other derogatory term used to label someone? Words have different connotations depending on who uses it.
Yes, I believe that all words may be used by anyone. To believe otherwise would be racist.

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Ratttking
Hmph, so much for freedom of speech.

That is gorgeous. In what way does it look more Chippewa than Sioux? Something to do with the feather doodad? Isn't it great that they're still holding a grudge centuries later? That's worthy of the Scots themselves, the type of Scot who still won't speak to a Campbell because of something nasty that clan did in 1692.
*headdesk*

You have nothing to be ashamed of, you didn't hunt them yourself. If we're going to feel bad about every mean thing our ancestors ever did we won't have time to do anything else. Should I feel bad that my Scottish ancestors were forcibly removed to Ireland by my English ancestors? Obviously each and every Englishman and woman had a direct hand in that. Other half of the family is German and we know how well they got along with the British, bombing each other back and forth.

Uh, how is Chippewa a shortened form of Ojibwe? Same number of syllables in each word and Chippewa has more letters.

You really had never heard the word before you were a teen? You said earlier that it gets thrown about a lot where you live, is that a relatively new thing then? I thought you were in your early 20s, so for a very old word to go from one you never heard to one you hear a lot in only a few years seems odd.

I thought squaw meant wife before now, but that's only sometimes when it is used as a suffix, very interesting looking up its etymology. The Abenaki word for queen, Kinjamesiskua, literally means King James' wife - the very badly dressed Anne of Denmark. Wonder if they use the same word for drag queens. mrgreen

Oh my god, that's terrible. Does anyone even know what the argument was about?

Oh no, it's not about what my ancestors did. This is one of the recent councils who supposedly started crap up. It originally started with Sioux members being insulted, yet in government documents, on maps, by people, the Lakota Sioux are called Sioux. Mainly because they are the descendents of three tribes; the Lakota, Nakota, and Dakota, and it was incredibly offensive to call them by the wrong name back in the day.

Chip-pewa (slide through the 'e' so there are two syllables) and O-jib-we (click a bit on the 'j' and 'uh' the end) are the same thing. If you speak them in a French accent it's like shortening Josephine to Josie.

I had heard of the team, and it was actually one of the high school's mascots before they were forced to change it back in the 90s, I think. (makes me wonder why the NFL gets away with it for so long) I never really paid attention to racism as a kid because it never seemed like a problem to me, until a friend of mine started dating a guy from farther north, and he had d**k friends who'd call her a redskin and insult him for dating her.

It's been over ten years? Now I have a wider social circle and I speak out more often. Also, as an awkward child, people were more interested in harassing me for other things, and my few friends were raised like I was; we'd swear with each other, but neeeeever in front of family. I literally got smacked in the face for flipping off a disposable camera on a class trip because "it's rude to the men and women who have to develop them."

lol. It does have a lot of meanings, but that's why it's offensive when non-natives use it and not when natives do. Peter Pan doesn't help the situation. One of my favorites movies has one of my father's most hated scenes in it.
Well, yeah, a group of Campbells killed 38 MacDonalds who had offered them hospitality and then burned down their homes which caused 40 women and children to die from exposure. It's called the Massacre of Glencoe. The hotel with the charming sign at the front desk is located in Glencoe. Seriously, what have they got against hawkers?

I had read that the Dakota language does not include the L sound, while the Lakota one does. Never heard of the Nakota before now.

OK, 10 years seems like a much shorter period of time to me. Time seems to speed up as I age...

Which version of Peter Pan? I adored the one with Jason Isaacs as Hook and Mr. Darling. Tinkerbell was a proper trashy b***h like she was in the books in that version, not the cloyingly sweet little imp she's usually presented as. Don't think they'll ever have Peter the right age, he appeared to be around 5 or 6 in the books - still had all his baby teeth and was smaller than any of the Lost Boys - but it might be hard to find a child actor that young who could pull off such a complex role. I'm guessing it's a scene with Tiger Lily that sets off your dad?

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