The King of Fighters

[Fide258]

Aoko Aozaki

Ryuhwakshin

Yeah, I was pretty skeptical about this list as well, such as having Leona as bottom tier and Ex Iori as high. But since this closely resembles Bala and TheAnswer's tier list, I really can't say much.

Edit: Bala's & TheAnswer's Tier List

This list has no credibility for three reasons.
1) Chin is dead-top. There is no way to deny this. He can get 1000 with five drinks off anything, and drinking isn't very hard to begin with.
2) Raiden is not better than Kula.
4) Yuri is not better than Vice.

Maybe they were high when they made this list, I dunno razz . There were a bunch of people I know that were laughing at it as well.
To add to your reasons, Ex Iori should be nowhere near high tier. His rekkas are unsafe, his regular command grab has 6 frames startup with Ex having 3 (everyone else has 3 frames normals and 1 frame Ex), and his damage output is very weak.

[kain-bluedge]

another extra bump. why gaia why????

[Paige-Anon]

Eric Roberts would have been a qualified actor to play Geese Howard.

[Aenthin]

Aoko Aozaki

Ryuhwakshin

Yeah, I was pretty skeptical about this list as well, such as having Leona as bottom tier and Ex Iori as high. But since this closely resembles Bala and TheAnswer's tier list, I really can't say much.

Edit: Bala's & TheAnswer's Tier List

This list has no credibility for three reasons.
1) Chin is dead-top. There is no way to deny this. He can get 1000 with five drinks off anything, and drinking isn't very hard to begin with.
2) Raiden is not better than Kula.
4) Yuri is not better than Vice.

Don't lie and just say it doesnt have credibility because it's not SBO.

I personally don't believe in any tier listing anyway, but I do agree on some points.

------

Oh and for some beginner to intermediate players who still don't know all of the basics, presenting Laban's Rule 2 (or 3), a video how to hitconfirm in KoF:




Also presenting its companion piece and supplementary guide by Logic Fighter.

Basically, both show the major differences of the KoF mechanics from other games, as well as how to apply pressure more effectively and how to defend them. I'm pretty sure some of you have watched DandyJ's Incomplete Guide to KoF, but like its title implies, it's a bit incomplete.

[Aoko Aozaki]

Aenthin

Don't lie and just say it doesnt have credibility because it's not SBO.

I personally don't believe in any tier listing anyway, but I do agree on some points.

Well, SBO is generally more accurate, although I myself have broken way off the Japanese tier lists when it comes to my own tier lists. I just state it doesn't have credibility because Chin is top, and not putting him as top and Kula as high is absolute idiocy.

The logicfighter article sort of made me puke a little. "even if a certain cr.B is technically neutral/slightly negative on block, the attacking player still has the initiative to act next"

Wat. No. If it's slightly negative (-1/-2), you lose initiative and they gain the ability to punish it with a fast grab or something else with a 1-2F startup. If it's neutral on block, the situation is reset to neutral, unless you can cancel the early frames to keep pressure (normally the best situation).

[Aenthin]

Aoko Aozaki

Aenthin

Don't lie and just say it doesnt have credibility because it's not SBO.

I personally don't believe in any tier listing anyway, but I do agree on some points.

Well, SBO is generally more accurate, although I myself have broken way off the Japanese tier lists when it comes to my own tier lists. I just state it doesn't have credibility because Chin is top, and not putting him as top and Kula as high is absolute idiocy.

Well, there are other basis on the tier listing like learning curves and some such. In the end though, they're all opinions and are bound to change, especially considering KoF XIII is still fresh.

[Aoko Aozaki]

Aenthin

Well, there are other basis on the tier listing like learning curves and some such. In the end though, they're all opinions and are bound to change, especially considering KoF XIII is still fresh.

Learning curve has nothing to do with tier placement. Often the highest tier characters are also the hardest to master. There is however a question of practicality.
If easy characters were top, Terry / Andy / K' would be top.
It really isn't that fresh. Everything in XIII has been figured out and there really isn't going to be anything big ever again with it. Quite boring really.

[Aenthin]

Aoko Aozaki

Aenthin

Well, there are other basis on the tier listing like learning curves and some such. In the end though, they're all opinions and are bound to change, especially considering KoF XIII is still fresh.

Learning curve has nothing to do with tier placement. Often the highest tier characters are also the hardest to master. There is however a question of practicality.
If easy characters were top, Terry / Andy / K' would be top.
It really isn't that fresh. Everything in XIII has been figured out and there really isn't going to be anything big ever again with it. Quite boring really.

For some people making the tier list, learning curve does affect tier placement and they do mention it in their thread. Don't ask me about it though. I have never made my own tier list.

And there's still a possibility of a few rare gems in XIII that haven't been discovered yet, whether it's legit or a glitch. I mean, there are a good number of games where people thought they know 100% of, only for a new discovery of a gameplay mechanic coming out years later. Or maybe it's not a new mechanic. Perhaps, it's a new set of players who suddenly bumped Athena to high tier, dispelling what thought to be a liability for her. Let's not even forget the possibility of patches that might touch upon some balance issues.

Thing is, I see a lot of moves, particularly EX specials, that haven't even been used. For over a year of playing and watching the arcade version of XIII, I hardly even see people use, say, Kula's qcfx2+P super, or Yuri's qcf+AC, or Athena's qcb+BD even up to now. So many of these are screaming, "Hey look at me! I have a great move property be it offensive or defensive, but why are you ignoring me?"

[Aoko Aozaki]

Aenthin

For some people making the tier list, learning curve does affect tier placement and they do mention it in their thread. Don't ask me about it though. I have never made my own tier list.

And there's still a possibility of a few rare gems in XIII that haven't been discovered yet, whether it's legit or a glitch. I mean, there are a good number of games where people thought they know 100% of, only for a new discovery of a gameplay mechanic coming out years later. Or maybe it's not a new mechanic. Perhaps, it's a new set of players who suddenly bumped Athena to high tier, dispelling what thought to be a liability for her. Let's not even forget the possibility of patches that might touch upon some balance issues.

Thing is, I see a lot of moves, particularly EX specials, that haven't even been used. For over a year of playing and watching the arcade version of XIII, I hardly even see people use, say, Kula's qcfx2+P super, or Yuri's qcf+AC, or Athena's qcb+BD even up to now. So many of these are screaming, "Hey look at me! I have a great move property be it offensive or defensive, but why are you ignoring me?"

They're probably idiots. Learning curve shouldn't affect it.

KOF has been milked. There is nothing new. Balance patches are so very unlikely.

Yuri's 236X is pretty useless outside of combos. You get a better hitbox from 214X along with the ability to follow it up with extra damage and a hard knockdown.

[Aenthin]

A new article by LogicFighter, this time focusing on team selection and order.

Also a bit late but Laban has posted a video regarding Alternate Guard abnd grappling in general:

[kain-bluedge]

bump...bump.......bump... ......im mad at gaia.

[Fide258]

I just wanna say that Yuri is such a good character biggrin . Her pressure is so good, and her combos are a joy to pull off! I was never serious whenever I pick her, but I might add her to my main team.

[Aoko Aozaki]

Anonymous Character

I just wanna say that Yuri is such a good character biggrin . Her pressure is so good, and her combos are a joy to pull off! I was never serious whenever I pick her, but I might add her to my main team.

Not at all. She's still good, but her pressure is pretty s**t. Like, everything that might be a frametrap is actually easy to hit them out of. Maybe 2B 5C 623DD as a frametrap + mixup, but you can prolly still get out easily.

Anybody with the following can easily escape from Yuri 623DD pressure ;
Fast, low-to-ground move (slides, certain sweeps, Chin's crouching stance will all put it in their favor. Stuff like Chin's 41236B/D will reset to neutral)
Strong, fast normals (Pretty much any good cl.5C/D, certain 2Cs', lots of command normals.)
Certain DP's (Stuff like Ryo's, where the hitbox will cover behind it in case Yuri has already changed sides.)
Really short running animation (Leonaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Anything else? I feel like I'm forgetting a million things.

[Fide258]

Aoko Aozaki

Anonymous Character

I just wanna say that Yuri is such a good character biggrin . Her pressure is so good, and her combos are a joy to pull off! I was never serious whenever I pick her, but I might add her to my main team.

Not at all. She's still good, but her pressure is pretty s**t. Like, everything that might be a frametrap is actually easy to hit them out of. Maybe 2B 5C 623DD as a frametrap + mixup, but you can prolly still get out easily.

Anybody with the following can easily escape from Yuri 623DD pressure ;
Fast, low-to-ground move (slides, certain sweeps, Chin's crouching stance will all put it in their favor. Stuff like Chin's 41236B/D will reset to neutral)
Strong, fast normals (Pretty much any good cl.5C/D, certain 2Cs', lots of command normals.)
Certain DP's (Stuff like Ryo's, where the hitbox will cover behind it in case Yuri has already changed sides.)
Really short running animation (Leonaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Anything else? I feel like I'm forgetting a million things.

Well, I do feel that you're forgetting that her 623DD pressure is NOT a necessity. All the players I fight against are afraid of that pressure tool, and find ways to get out of it. If that happens, then we (Yuri players) pretty much have them mindf***ed into doing SOMETHING to counter it, which pretty is pretty much like digging their own graves.

Quote:

Strong, fast normals (Pretty much any good cl.5C/D, certain 2Cs', lots of command normals.)

Then just simply sweep instead of 623DD. Then, keep with the pressure.

Quote:

Certain DP's (Stuff like Ryo's, where the hitbox will cover behind it in case Yuri has already changed sides.)

Then you do nothing and bait it. This is just a matter of mind-games.

Quote:

Really short running animation (Leonaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Either sweep or 236A. Or hell maybe even (don't quote me on this, I haven't tested this; just a thought) 623BD instead of the D version.


I know you would disagree with my inputs, but this is based on how I play KOF (and so far, it has helped me against the top players in my area). And if you knew this stuff already, then feel free to let me know, call me a dumba**, and ignore me.

[Aoko Aozaki]

Anonymous Character

623DD can be reacted to. Pretty much all of your "bait it" concepts are useless because of this.

Of course, if they're dead-set on doing something without confirming it'll hit, I just delay-cancel into something like 63214[BD] or 214C instead. Just gotta give them enough time to do something while you're starting up, so you'll catch them during the vulnerable frames.

Still, 623DD is okay for the left/right mixup and gives her a really strong oki game. Just gotta make sure they'll block it.