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Track01_Rebuild
Unfortunately, selling more hunting permits might not solve the problem. My family (and fiance's family) all got tags last season, nobody saw a single deer on any land they were able to hunt. When my sister got home one night, a week after the season ended and it actually got cold and snowed, there were 14 deer in her back yard.


Well, the issuance of permits is mostly to prevent OVERharvesting. It's still a toss up whether or not you'll even see one, let alone hit one. But you're only allowed as many kills as you've bought.
black_wing_angel
Track01_Rebuild
Unfortunately, selling more hunting permits might not solve the problem. My family (and fiance's family) all got tags last season, nobody saw a single deer on any land they were able to hunt. When my sister got home one night, a week after the season ended and it actually got cold and snowed, there were 14 deer in her back yard.


Well, the issuance of permits is mostly to prevent OVERharvesting. It's still a toss up whether or not you'll even see one, let alone hit one. But you're only allowed as many kills as you've bought.


The point of my post was OP's idea of issuing more (unless I mis-understood, I am sick so it's possible) isn't going to necessarily help because that's not always the reason hunters aren't bringing the population in check as well as in previous years.
x-Garethp-x
I don't understand Americans and their hunting. Why would they do that? What kind of sick twisted b*****d makes a sport of killing things? Who takes pleasure out of that? AND WHY DOES EVERYBODY THINK IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL???

For ******** sake...


it is perfectly normal, u ******** moron

how do you think humans survived the ice age? we evolved during a hunter gatherer society
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zosh


due to car collisions with them, YES, THEY COST THOUSANDS OF HUMAN LIVES EVERY YEAR. CAR ACCIDENTS. YES, THOUSANDS

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE. 1.5 MILLION DEER ARE HIT / YEAR


Got a source?
marshmallowcreampie
zosh


due to car collisions with them, YES, THEY COST THOUSANDS OF HUMAN LIVES EVERY YEAR. CAR ACCIDENTS. YES, THOUSANDS

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE. 1.5 MILLION DEER ARE HIT / YEAR


Got a source?

ok, thousands of deaths was off, it's hundreds.

1990 - $702,000 of damage, 100+ deaths, 7,000 injuries, 350,000 deer killed/injured
http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9705/rm970503.htm


$4 billion dollars in vehicular damage from 2011-2012
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2012/10/24/267786.htm
I don't know, should we have demolitionists blow up cars? I mean cars kill people too and we seem to have a surplus of them.
low iq 111's avatar

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we hunt whatever is causing extinctions or whatever is too high in population but also try to promote living things from not going extinct.

we should also have a lot more land/nature preserves imo.

hunters aren't thinking that much when they go out and hunt though. i don't believe these people
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are seriously trying to protect, restore, and conserve nature.
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low iq 111
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Lol is that an ATF cap
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You're talking about nature as if it's a thing that can make decisions. I think that's sort of a strange thing to do.


Idk, I mean, who's to say it doesn't make decisions?

I mean, what evidence is there that it's not making decisions?


Of all the random things that could happen, this happened.

How does that make any sense; the heavy specialization of life and self repeating chemicals?


How does that make any sense?

sweatdrop
The world behaves exactly the way it would if there was no intelligence guiding it. Every event has traceable causes that make perfect sense when understood.
You can believe that undefinable thing you call nature has a will if it makes you feel better, but it makes way more sense to not believe in magic. And I think you know that.


There's nothing to suggest nature doesn't have some kind of outside influence. Magic would imply it being impossible; since it's obvious there's probs stuff outside of nature, I mean, that's a silly assertion as well.

I mean, when you think about it, vaccines are natural; after it, they were created in nature. If your notion is that there is no will defining our activities than everything was meant to be this way since the first atoms exploded, suggesting there is no way to change events if all things have traceable causes.


And I mean, intelligence or not, nature could do whatever it wanted but it did this; kind of crazy when you think about it. xp

How in the world is it obvious that something exists outside of nature?

Vaccines were created via laboratory processes. Normally when something comes about from human intervention it is considered to be no longer natural.
I don't think that the origins of the matter that makes up our bodies has much to do with how we act. I think it's silly to say otherwise.
And the notion of fate is also weird to me. Fate implies a plan, which requires a planner.

What definition of nature are you talking about, man? Do you think the trees are conspiring against you?
If the animals that make up part of nature had a say in it, I think they'd much prefer a natural order in which they don't have to either constantly watch out for murderers, or head out every day to commit murder. Just to live.


If everything has a traceable nature, than everything was meant to be. If you can trace all the atoms back to the center of the universe, and figure out what little thing made them go one way or the other, then theoretically, you could figure out everything about the universe.

Since free will, that is a universe that wasn't completely set in motion billions of years ago, would defy entropy, either there is a certain randomness to the universe, which is still quantifiable according to quantum mechanics, or everything is set in stone; if one atom went one way, and bumped into another atom, it's not as if it will suddenly turn into a leprechaun.


Matter would have quantifiable, inescapable fates since the mechanistic clockwork would keep ticking, and moving without human interaction or not.

We did not choose to be created, to have brains, to be humans, to have anything. We did not make our brains and there was no choice in the manner; we did not choose our environment, we did not choose our parents, we did not choose every other human etc. on our universe.


If the laws of physics are definite, and concrete, than according to a set laws of physics, and a set of matter, certain things have to happen. Humans then were meant to exist since the star that belched our star, and our radioactive dust, would have had to follow a certain path according to the laws of physics which made our planet and every little tiny thing that would have influenced us. So down to the sun being bright one day subtly influencing someone to start wearing sunscreen and finally come up with an invention for a better one, all of that was programmed into the universe since all the actions that created us had to have happened according to the laws of physics.

Hence everything everyone did would be quantifiable; we have no real free will, since we were made from atoms that do not get to choose what they are going to do. Since our brain does not have any way of making choices other than potentially random number generators, which is still random.


Therefore everything would be set into motion long before we ever took action. The notion that "I don't think that the origins of the matter that makes up our bodies has much to do with how we act."; if what we're made up out of and the interactions between those things created us and all that we are, even every little subtle thing being completely quantified in a physical reality, what then, could be responsible for it, other than what we're made out of?

I in fact, do believe in the reality of free will, even if science can't explain it but. With our current understanding we're nothing more than mechanistic clockwork; our atoms digest food because those chemical reactions will occur on contact regardless because that's simply how the universe worse. If there is no design, we are a natural by product of how physics works if X planet is X distance from X sun with X events. And therefore all of our thoughts, feelings, were all a part of the clockwork, not a part of our choices.


Things happen because physics says they must happen. Chemical reactions do not occur, by choice, as you say, and nature makes no choices. If we assume that, than everything must occur if two atoms collide and those two atoms will collide because of the proportional ratios of energy and whatnot altering their course and direction etc., which would mean the directions would be completely quantifiable.

Therefore everything is set in stone. This entire conversation, everything leading up to this point, happened because the laws of physics said it had to happen; if it didn't, we wouldn't exist. One atom bumping into another until a nebula formed into a sun until a sun belched out matter that collected into dust that turned into planets that's subtle variations, still perfectly programmed by the unwavering laws of physics, that lead to each individual thing on earth, meaning that everything was set in stone before we ever existed, since the laws of physics had to happen in one way given the current circumstance. That of course if you believe that everything must follow concrete laws of physics.
low iq 111
we hunt whatever is causing extinctions or whatever is too high in population but also try to promote living things from not going extinct.

we should also have a lot more land/nature preserves imo.

hunters aren't thinking that much when they go out and hunt though. i don't believe these people

are seriously trying to protect, restore, and conserve nature.

Believe what you wish, but the fact of the matter is, yes, they are.

By purchasing hunting permits, buying tags, paying entrance fees and so forth, they are directly funding efforts aimed at purchasing and managing habitat, game populations, and safety/awareness programs.
low iq 111's avatar

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low iq 111
we hunt whatever is causing extinctions or whatever is too high in population but also try to promote living things from not going extinct.

we should also have a lot more land/nature preserves imo.

hunters aren't thinking that much when they go out and hunt though. i don't believe these people

are seriously trying to protect, restore, and conserve nature.

Believe what you wish, but the fact of the matter is, yes, they are.

By purchasing hunting permits, buying tags, paying entrance fees and so forth, they are directly funding efforts aimed at purchasing and managing habitat, game populations, and safety/awareness programs.


how does one action lead to the other action? i don't understand your logic right now. the hunters i know don't give a crap about managing habitat or game population. they go out to hunt to shoot at things simply for fun because for some people that is enjoyment. also why is 'managing population and habitat' for you hunters always about killing animals that are getting overly populated but when confronted about extinct animals you couldn't care less? bull s**t you care about habitat or animals. just like bullshit to anyone who says they 'love animals' but don't volunteer with animals or attempt to be vegetarian or do anything to show that they 'love animals'. it's bullshit. what people should be doing to manage habitat is to advocate for much more land preserves.
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black_wing_angel
x-Garethp-x
I don't understand Americans and their hunting. Why would they do that?


Food, mostly. Specifically, access to food that is otherwise difficult, if possible, to obtain. Wild game aren't usually found in the grocery store. Except domesticated turkey, I suppose.

Also, it helps keep their numbers in check. Rather a deer suffer some 3 minutes worth of bleeding out, than several months of starvation, because they've become over-run, and have depleted their own natural foods.

That's actually why carnivours and omnivours exist. It's a natural balance of population.

Quote:
What kind of sick twisted b*****d makes a sport of killing things?


It's not that sick, nor twisted. It's human nature at its core.

Quote:
Who takes pleasure out of that?


Lots of people, all over the world. Not just in the US.

In fact, YOU are the minority. That means YOU are the weird one.

Quote:
AND WHY DOES EVERYBODY THINK IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL???


Because....it is? It's no less "unusual" for a human to kill animals for sustanence, than for a bear.

Like I said, you are the one who's not normal, given that you are the minority.


He's an Australian, like me - here, hunters and pro-hunting people are definitely a minority, and are often seen as heartless monsters who get pleasure out of killing. See, here the only things to hunt are ducks and kangaroos. And many "recreational" hunters, pretty much go along just for the killing, not for the eating. Here, "hunting" and "hunters" can have different connotations.

It's not a matter of normality, it's a matter of perspective.
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x-Garethp-x
I don't understand Americans and their hunting. Why would they do that? What kind of sick twisted b*****d makes a sport of killing things? Who takes pleasure out of that? AND WHY DOES EVERYBODY THINK IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL???

For ******** sake...
Do you understand Australians and their hunting? xxx

Hunting is perfectly normal and has been done by humans and our ancestors for millions of years.
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Hunting isn't what it used to be, aside from in the south, I don't think most other communities really support hunting and fewer and fewer new people are entering into the ranks. Deer populations can thus continue to grow with the decline of their only thriving predator. The question is, how do you get people to join in which a large number of non-hunters have been fed a rather negative portrayal of hunters? I can talk from experience, while I do understand the fact that hunting plays an important role in maintain animal populations at manageable levels, I can't even imagine myself taking the life of an animal like a deer and that's the kind of mindset you have to overcome to recruit hunters who didn't grow up in that way of life.
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marshmallowcreampie
zosh


due to car collisions with them, YES, THEY COST THOUSANDS OF HUMAN LIVES EVERY YEAR. CAR ACCIDENTS. YES, THOUSANDS

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DAMAGE. 1.5 MILLION DEER ARE HIT / YEAR


Got a source?
It seems to be more of an estimate. http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/deer-car-collisions-state-hit-deer-driving/story?id=11826266

The estimated figures do not tally with the OP's claim, but it's still a lot of deer. Several hundred people are killed each year from collisions with deer. I'd recommend not driving if it worries them so much, as few if any humans are killed by contact with deer any other way.

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