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Rgoodermote
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Rgoodermote
As for your idea, already exists. Hit report and then PM a Mod if it's a super serious issue. PM's are more than welcome as they help Mods address the serious issues quickly.
I think you do not understand meta-moderation.

Probably not, although now that I think it over I think you mean letting the community police it's self or something like that? You may need to explain.
I mean that respected members of the community have the ability to apply prioritized flags for moderation, which the rest of the community have the ability to validate or counter. High numbers of validated flags have the double effect of increasing the veracity of the member who issued the flag and increase the priority of the flag in front of authoritative moderators.

That is, people who have submitted flags for moderation that have been accepted consistently are given stronger flags that everyone else can review and approve or disapprove. Flags that get approved by the community quickly get prioritized for you. Flags that get disapproved by the community lower the priority of the flags.

It's a karma system. not unlike what you see at Slashdot or on StackOverflow.

Frankly, I think we should delete the C&T forum entirely and replace it with a better Q&A-format system like Quora or SO. TT is fine for discussion, but this forum (including its opaque moderation system) is an abominable format for providing technical assistance.

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psychic stalker
Rgoodermote
psychic stalker
Rgoodermote
As for your idea, already exists. Hit report and then PM a Mod if it's a super serious issue. PM's are more than welcome as they help Mods address the serious issues quickly.
I think you do not understand meta-moderation.

Probably not, although now that I think it over I think you mean letting the community police it's self or something like that? You may need to explain.
I mean that respected members of the community have the ability to apply prioritized flags for moderation, which the rest of the community have the ability to validate or counter. High numbers of validated flags have the double effect of increasing the veracity of the member who issued the flag and increase the priority of the flag in front of authoritative moderators.

That is, people who have submitted flags for moderation that have been accepted consistently are given stronger flags that everyone else can review and approve or disapprove. Flags that get approved by the community quickly get prioritized for you. Flags that get disapproved by the community lower the priority of the flags.

It's a karma system. not unlike what you see at Slashdot or on StackOverflow.

Frankly, I think we should delete the C&T forum entirely and replace it with a better Q&A-format system like Quora or SO. TT is fine for discussion, but this forum (including its opaque moderation system) is an abominable format for providing technical assistance.

All I can say man is throw this idea out here: http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/site-feedback/f.137/

They do listen, I know this to be fact. They do look through those and they do listen to feedback!

But otherwise I don't have much to say about this, having not seen how this system works I can't say for sure whether I think it would work for Gaia or not. I myself personally like how Gaia does things (having been the one on the side of doing) and don't see a need to change it.

But if you think and feel that that is how C&T should be run then I think more power to you and suggest it in Site Feedback. You will be heard.

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Rgoodermote
psychic stalker
Rgoodermote
psychic stalker
Rgoodermote
As for your idea, already exists. Hit report and then PM a Mod if it's a super serious issue. PM's are more than welcome as they help Mods address the serious issues quickly.
I think you do not understand meta-moderation.

Probably not, although now that I think it over I think you mean letting the community police it's self or something like that? You may need to explain.
I mean that respected members of the community have the ability to apply prioritized flags for moderation, which the rest of the community have the ability to validate or counter. High numbers of validated flags have the double effect of increasing the veracity of the member who issued the flag and increase the priority of the flag in front of authoritative moderators.

That is, people who have submitted flags for moderation that have been accepted consistently are given stronger flags that everyone else can review and approve or disapprove. Flags that get approved by the community quickly get prioritized for you. Flags that get disapproved by the community lower the priority of the flags.

It's a karma system. not unlike what you see at Slashdot or on StackOverflow.

Frankly, I think we should delete the C&T forum entirely and replace it with a better Q&A-format system like Quora or SO. TT is fine for discussion, but this forum (including its opaque moderation system) is an abominable format for providing technical assistance.

All I can say man is throw this idea out here: http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/site-feedback/f.137/

They do listen, I know this to be fact. They do look through those and they do listen to feedback!

But otherwise I don't have much to say about this, having not seen how this system works I can't say for sure whether I think it would work for Gaia or not. I myself personally like how Gaia does things (having been the one on the side of doing) and don't see a need to change it.

But if you think and feel that that is how C&T should be run then I think more power to you and suggest it in Site Feedback. You will be heard.
Honestly, it's easier for me to simply abandon Gaia, as tired as I am of adding ******** trolls to my ignore list, than to champion necessary changes to the site.

Look how long it took to get carbon to get off his ******** a** and do something productive about the forum parser.

Benevolent Borg

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but then we'd have another reg gone. and people would just keep leaving and leaving. then i'd be the only one left all alone with no way of figuring out how to increase my technical knowledge/skills. a sad day that would be indeed.

also for those of you(if any) who might care, i have returned. i've been playing ff13-2 since Friday and finally completed a vast majority of the game. i thought the senery and music was fantastic and (usually) they went well hand in hand. but what really messed with me was the ending until i figured that out.

but now i'm behind on my assignments and have more catching up to do. thus the reason i left consoles in the first place.

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Shade7510
but then we'd have another reg gone. and people would just keep leaving and leaving. then i'd be the only one left all alone with no way of figuring out how to increase my technical knowledge/skills. a sad day that would be indeed.
Honestly, there are better places to go. Dozens of IRC channels, the StackExchange sites, Reddit, Hacker News, Quora....

The fact that I've stayed on Gaia for so goddamn long at all is frustratingly astonishing. I don't even know why I click on the goddamn link in the first place. Every time I come back, I regret it.

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Honestly, there are better places to go. Dozens of IRC channels, the StackExchange sites, Reddit, Hacker News, Quora....


i wouldn't disagree. but gaia is the only place i've found that's comfortable/easy to use(for me at least). plus it's the one of the few i've ever found and i found gaia just out of pure luck(if luck's what you want to call it).

i don't like the style of reddit but i'll probably find myself using it eventually, and 4chan usually just consists of shitposting or people who throw a fit the moment you disagree with them in the slightest...or both. (though i've mainly noticed that in /g/ and /v/)

i can't say i've heard of IRC channels nor do i entirely grasp the concept. but i think i'm just over-thinking it.


psychic stalker

The fact that I've stayed on Gaia for so goddamn long at all is frustratingly astonishing. I don't even know why I click on the goddamn link in the first place. Every time I come back, I regret it.

i guess that'd depend on why you don't like it. perhaps the ignorance of others can eat away at you as time progresses. but it's always nice to help people. at least they learned something. but then again it's also important to put to good use what you've learned. which no one ever seems to do here.

also, everyone also has their own unique identity which makes it easy to develop friends. but that's assuming your interested in making friends. anonymous forum sites would be more solely for plain discussion i suppose. in which case gaia would not be the most logical place to be.



none-the-less gaia has a sort of uniqueness to it that attracts some and loses the interest of others. i've always found the way people react to gaia to be quite interesting.

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Shade7510
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Honestly, there are better places to go. Dozens of IRC channels, the StackExchange sites, Reddit, Hacker News, Quora....


i wouldn't disagree. but gaia is the only place i've found that's comfortable/easy to use(for me at least). plus it's the one of the few i've ever found and i found gaia just out of pure luck(if luck's what you want to call it).
I used to think forums like this were the best kind. But after years of using and meta-modding Slashdot, and spending several years answering questions on StackOverflow, and finding myself using Reddit, I came to prefer the format of threaded replies and community meta-moderation. I don't feel like this linear reply format has any value for technical discussion or for a question and answer format. It simply doesn't work.
Shade7510
i don't like the style of reddit but i'll probably find myself using it eventually, and 4chan usually just consists of shitposting or people who throw a fit the moment you disagree with them in the slightest...or both. (though i've mainly noticed that in /g/ and /v/)
Reddit is a place that works similarly to 4chan, but without the trash.

4chan is, of course, the a**-end of the Internet, were all of the feces collect and spew out.

Reddit has memes aplenty. There is no longer any need for 4chan, except perhaps for Reddit to move off-shore.
Shade7510
i can't say i've heard of IRC channels nor do i entirely grasp the concept. but i think i'm just over-thinking it.
IRC is what came before instant messages, and it is where the concept of chat grew to the mainstream before any other social community besides UseNet.

It's the best real-time chat protocol we have. I think it better, even, than Google Wave back when that was a thing. It's a protocol with problems, to be sure - no protocol this simple scales very well - but its implementation is agreeable.
Shade7510
psychic stalker
The fact that I've stayed on Gaia for so goddamn long at all is frustratingly astonishing. I don't even know why I click on the goddamn link in the first place. Every time I come back, I regret it.

i guess that'd depend on why you don't like it. perhaps the ignorance of others can eat away at you as time progresses. but it's always nice to help people. at least they learned something. but then again it's also important to put to good use what you've learned. which no one ever seems to do here.
And then there's the litany of trolls and ignorant wiseguys that come here spewing nonsense and passing it off as if it had intellectual value. And then the mods complain when we call them on their stupidity.

Seriously, ******** this place.
Shade7510
also, everyone also has their own unique identity which makes it easy to develop friends. but that's assuming your interested in making friends. anonymous forum sites would be more solely for plain discussion i suppose. in which case gaia would not be the most logical place to be.
Bulletin board-style forums are a difficult place to make friends. It's easier than the more anonymous fora, since they tend to be smaller and more personal, but it's impossible to actually carry on a discussion.

IRC is a better place to make friends, I think, since it's so direct and real-time. Discussion is secondary by its nature, and that makes it a lot easier to be personable. I've gotten to know and met people from IRC, but not from forums.
Shade7510
none-the-less gaia has a sort of uniqueness to it that attracts some and loses the interest of others. i've always found the way people react to gaia to be quite interesting.
I think the dress-up and the chatterbox meme are the biggest, most polarizing factors. I try not to care, and I've long ago stopped spending gold and GCash on anything, but it ends up serving only as a supplement to user names - which is nice.

But the quality of discussion here is so disappointingly poor - even the few times I've poked my head into the ED forums, looking for some intellectual discourse, I found only drivel, stupidity, trolling and asinine behavior.

I think the cathedral nature - to borrow from esr's metaphor - of bulletin boards tend to breed that. Fora should be more public, with the responsibility of moderation more spread out, so that it's easier to squelch out the stupidity and breed intelligent discourse, much as a bazaar breeds more creative output.

And note my choice of words: I don't believe that posts or threads should ever be deleted, and I don't think ignore lists should be anything more than purely one-sided. Bad behavior should be punished by silence, but not through deletion or muzzling; rather, through a mechanism where everyone can choose what parts of the conversation they want to see. They should be squelched, not silenced. Through that simple choice, being heard requires intelligent eloquence. As it should.

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What was the network/name of the irc channel again?

In unrelated news i get the feeling me posting all this irrelevant stuff here (you know, stuff like this right here) is an attempt to cope with something. Not entirely sure what yet.

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I used to think forums like this were the best kind. But after years of using and meta-modding Slashdot, and spending several years answering questions on StackOverflow, and finding myself using Reddit, I came to prefer the format of threaded replies and community meta-moderation. I don't feel like this linear reply format has any value for technical discussion or for a question and answer format. It simply doesn't work.

slashdot and stackoverflow look very nice from what i've looked at. i could see myself starting to wander there in short time. reddit's format isn't that bad now that i think about it a bit more. i think i find myself disliking it also due to the idea that a lot of trolls nest themselves there as i've heard of before. of which i'd rather avoid.

psychic stalker

Reddit has memes aplenty. There is no longer any need for 4chan, except perhaps for Reddit to move off-shore.

from what i've seen 4chan isn't too fond of memes anymore(unless your in /b/ which is the s**t of s**t.) instead there are a constant flow of the same threads with the fairly frequent different topics. nothing ever changes so it's quite boring.



psychic stalker
IRC is what came before instant messages, and it is where the concept of chat grew to the mainstream before any other social community besides UseNet.

so, what would be some examples then? omegle and chat roulette come to mind but i'm not sure if those could be classified as such.

psychic stalker
And then there's the litany of trolls and ignorant wiseguys that come here spewing nonsense and passing it off as if it had intellectual value. And then the mods complain when we call them on their stupidity.
Seriously, ******** this place.

i used to be the same way. back before "trolling" became as popular as it it now. but then i realized how much there is to learn in life and obtained the yearning to learn all that i could. of which i lost the mindset i had in which i new so much when actually i knew nothing at all(and still don't to some degree). when such a wiseguy pops up all one can do is lead them in the right path as best as you can in the least harsh way as possible. it's more times than not unlikely to work but i'd be better to try and fail rather than to not at all. i mean, what's better than granting someone the knowledge that can lead them down a path of great wisdom and happiness in life so that they may share it with others. it may seem hopeless and perhaps it is in some ways, but if i knew that in some way i'd be teaching someone a valuable concept that would likely do them and others well in the future then why not do so? what is knowledge if it isn't shared? to me i've come to decide that is not knowledge at all, but then again what would it be if not that?



psychic stalker
Bulletin board-style forums are a difficult place to make friends. It's easier than the more anonymous fora, since they tend to be smaller and more personal, but it's impossible to actually carry on a discussion.

is gaia bulletin style then?

psychic stalker

But the quality of discussion here is so disappointingly poor - even the few times I've poked my head into the ED forums, looking for some intellectual discourse, I found only drivel, stupidity, trolling and asinine behavior.

oohhh i didn't realize ED had such sub-forums in them. but your experience worries me. i'll try it out for myself and hope not to get the same experience. you wouldn't believe how awful some people are in LI in terms of advice giving. i'd be nice to read threads where people didn't give horrid opinions that provide no benefits for OP or anyone else. what would concern me about ED is weather it's full of bias people who simply argue(like in 4chan) or people who actually know how to view something from different angles and get a better idea of the issue.


psychic stalker

I think the cathedral nature - to borrow from esr's metaphor - of bulletin boards tend to breed that. Fora should be more public, with the responsibility of moderation more spread out, so that it's easier to squelch out the stupidity and breed intelligent discourse, much as a bazaar breeds more creative output.

And note my choice of words: I don't believe that posts or threads should ever be deleted, and I don't think ignore lists should be anything more than purely one-sided. Bad behavior should be punished by silence, but not through deletion or muzzling; rather, through a mechanism where everyone can choose what parts of the conversation they want to see. They should be squelched, not silenced. Through that simple choice, being heard requires intelligent eloquence. As it should.

agreed. but those who breed ignorant discussion are usually troll(which sucks because those who are actually serious are treated as trolls when in actuality they just wish to learn.) and for whatever reason people seem to be easily affected by trolls and thus inclined to reply to them. unless you've got the will power to ignore said trolls(which honestly seems easy for me) they'll just get replied to like they're hoping for. i guess that if people flag the post enough it could get hidden like on youtube. though even then there are some slight problems. but perhaps i just misunderstand.

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Shade7510
slashdot and stackoverflow look very nice from what i've looked at. i could see myself starting to wander there in short time. reddit's format isn't that bad now that i think about it a bit more. i think i find myself disliking it also due to the idea that a lot of trolls nest themselves there as i've heard of before. of which i'd rather avoid.
The nice thing is that trolls get downvoted quickly. There's no impetus to reply to them, and as they get downvoted, they're less visible to everyone. Yes, there are trolls on Reddit. You wouldn't know it.
Shade7510
so, what would be some examples then? omegle and chat roulette come to mind but i'm not sure if those could be classified as such.
No.

IRC doesn't really have a modern analog. It was derived from the old UNIX "talk" program, which was a one-on-one chat program. IRC just adds channels and nicknames, and centralizes it onto a single server.

You connect to irc.server:6667, then /join a #channel, and just converse with whoever has also joined. (Just be nice and you won't get a /kick or /ban.)
Shade7510
i used to be the same way. back before "trolling" became as popular as it it now.
Trolling is a very old pastime. It predates everything. There were trolls on the bulletin board systems I dialed into, there were trolls on the door games I played, there are trolls on IRC, there are trolls on Google+, there are trolls everywhere. Any time you give someone a small amount of anonymity, they will troll. It's a simple fact of life.

And the only way to keep them from causing a disruption is for everyone to simply ignore them.

But not everyone ignores them. That's why meta-moderation is so valuable: Downvoting and flagging becomes an automatic, knee-jerk response, so their trolling doesn't get replied to, and their worthless postings disappear below your reading threshold.

Passing knowledge and wisdom to them is all well and good, but it does no one any good when they won't accept it.
Shade7510
psychic stalker
Bulletin board-style forums are a difficult place to make friends. It's easier than the more anonymous fora, since they tend to be smaller and more personal, but it's impossible to actually carry on a discussion.

is gaia bulletin style then?
It's based on PHPBB (PHPBulletinBoard), which is a variation of vBulletin and several other "Bulletin Board" forums. The term goes all the way back to Bulletin Board Systems (BBS), which were dial-in systems that were popular before the Internet, which themselves had similar discussion boards (which usually took the form of public mail.)
Shade7510
psychic stalker
But the quality of discussion here is so disappointingly poor - even the few times I've poked my head into the ED forums, looking for some intellectual discourse, I found only drivel, stupidity, trolling and asinine behavior.

oohhh i didn't realize ED had such sub-forums in them. but your experience worries me. i'll try it out for myself and hope not to get the same experience. you wouldn't believe how awful some people are in LI in terms of advice giving. i'd be nice to read threads where people didn't give horrid opinions that provide no benefits for OP or anyone else. what would concern me about ED is weather it's full of bias people who simply argue(like in 4chan) or people who actually know how to view something from different angles and get a better idea of the issue.
The problem with LI is that there are too many people who have no interest in providing good advice, or that have no good advice to give.

But that extends to ED: There are too many people who are scientifically illiterate. Those morons wouldn't know science if it hit them in the head with a 2x4. And they're so argumentative, and so set in their ignorance, that there's simply no way to get through the miasma.

At least Reddit's r/AskScience and r/Science has some people who know what they're talking about. Hell, Reddit is where actual scientists hang out these days. There are more scientifically literate people on Reddit now than I can find anywhere else. It's a healthier community.
Shade7510
agreed. but those who breed ignorant discussion are usually troll(which sucks because those who are actually serious are treated as trolls when in actuality they just wish to learn.) and for whatever reason people seem to be easily affected by trolls and thus inclined to reply to them. unless you've got the will power to ignore said trolls(which honestly seems easy for me) they'll just get replied to like they're hoping for. i guess that if people flag the post enough it could get hidden like on youtube. though even then there are some slight problems. but perhaps i just misunderstand.
If someone gets flagged here several times, there should be some visible repercussion - the posting should be hidden in such a way that you have to take extra steps to view it. Then, as someone gets flagged more and more on multiple posts, it should act as if they are getting added to everyone's ignore list - no matter where they post, their posts should be invisible to everyone unless someone takes special effort to view them.

In that way, the trolls simply go away. Hell-banning is far more effective than any other form of punishment, because the one getting hell-banned doesn't even know they've been silenced.

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psychic stalker
In that way, the trolls simply go away. Hell-banning is far more effective than any other form of punishment, because the one getting hell-banned doesn't even know they've been silenced.
What prevents them from logging in with a secondary and checking their own status?

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psychic stalker
No.

IRC doesn't really have a modern analog. It was derived from the old UNIX "talk" program, which was a one-on-one chat program. IRC just adds channels and nicknames, and centralizes it onto a single server.

You connect to irc.server:6667, then /join a #channel, and just converse with whoever has also joined. (Just be nice and you won't get a /kick or /ban.)

ah that clarifies a little bit. thanks. but, if you'll excuse my ignorance, how would i connect to an irc server like you've mentioned?

psychic stalker
Trolling is a very old pastime. It predates everything. There were trolls on the bulletin board systems I dialed into, there were trolls on the door games I played, there are trolls on IRC, there are trolls on Google+, there are trolls everywhere. Any time you give someone a small amount of anonymity, they will troll. It's a simple fact of life.


that's why i put it in quotes. i meant before it became excessively popular and all the memes with it starting showing up everywhere. it has indeed always been around. but only in the past 5 years(?) or so if i recall correctly has it vastly overtaken everything even beyond the internet into real life and into the minds of the younger ages which has always worried me to such an extent.

psychic stalker

But not everyone ignores them. That's why meta-moderation is so valuable: Downvoting and flagging becomes an automatic, knee-jerk response, so their trolling doesn't get replied to, and their worthless postings disappear below your reading threshold.

i see your point in that. in which case i'd to agree that that's a very effective system. if they did implement it into gaia i'd be curious as to how great of changes would occur.

psychic stalker

Passing knowledge and wisdom to them is all well and good, but it does no one any good when they won't accept it.

and so define another sad fact in the lives of humans that they refuse to heed the warnings of others for they know not what they think they might know. it comes to a point with me where i don't try to convince them any more either, but rather advise they take my words into consideration and elaborate/convince if they ask. they either choose to heed or ignore. one way or another they'll learn. otherwise they suffer a life of cruelty and unhappiness. and i don't think anyone deserves that when instead they could live their lives to the fullest. i try, but i don't put in any extra effort if i don't deem it necessary.



psychic stalker
It's based on PHPBB (PHPBulletinBoard), which is a variation of vBulletin and several other "Bulletin Board" forums. The term goes all the way back to Bulletin Board Systems (BBS), which were dial-in systems that were popular before the Internet, which themselves had similar discussion boards (which usually took the form of public mail.)

that makes sense i suppose. thanks.


psychic stalker

The problem with LI is that there are too many people who have no interest in providing good advice, or that have no good advice to give.

i see a little of both, but more of the former. there are people who like to help which i'm always glad to see. but some people don't take in to consideration the actual issue and just spout words to make them go away which does not help the mental image i've started to develop of humanity in recent years at all.

psychic stalker

But that extends to ED: There are too many people who are scientifically illiterate. Those morons wouldn't know science if it hit them in the head with a 2x4. And they're so argumentative, and so set in their ignorance, that there's simply no way to get through the miasma.

gahh thats the complete opposite of what i was hoping for(but ironically expecting). people get so nit-picky about things that it's ridiculous. i've always wanted to discuss topics with people that, if discussed in the regular world people would throw fits and yell arguments without understanding, instead actually have logical debates where people actually learn something educational rather than develop more hatred for their fellow man they've been arguing with(things like evolution, different software company brands, religion, all that "good" stuff) . and thus humanities image deteriorates day by day.


psychic stalker

At least Reddit's r/AskScience and r/Science has some people who know what they're talking about. Hell, Reddit is where actual scientists hang out these days. There are more scientifically literate people on Reddit now than I can find anywhere else. It's a healthier community.

that's promising. perhaps there is hope in some places.


psychic stalker
If someone gets flagged here several times, there should be some visible repercussion - the posting should be hidden in such a way that you have to take extra steps to view it. Then, as someone gets flagged more and more on multiple posts, it should act as if they are getting added to everyone's ignore list - no matter where they post, their posts should be invisible to everyone unless someone takes special effort to view them.

In that way, the trolls simply go away. Hell-banning is far more effective than any other form of punishment, because the one getting hell-banned doesn't even know they've been silenced.

ohh so it's more like developing a bad reputation. when you post stupid things no one wants to hear they ignore you. thus it's that person that no one sees when they post not the post itself.

that'd be highly effective indeed then. on gaia the ignore list is convenient but if someone gets perma-banned they can just make a new account and continue their trolling. making the account banning not very effective it seems to me.

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Quote:
What prevents them from logging in with a secondary and checking their own status?

i'd like to think no one would be that desperate of a troll. but i guess we're not in a perfect world. though even if they did figure out they're being ignored i think they'd either
a) stop trolling and give up

or

b) make a new one and start trolling again.

in which case that account is ignored as well and the cycle repeat until they just give up. overall i think the troll would get tired of it before anyone else would

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The20
psychic stalker
In that way, the trolls simply go away. Hell-banning is far more effective than any other form of punishment, because the one getting hell-banned doesn't even know they've been silenced.
What prevents them from logging in with a secondary and checking their own status?
The simple fact that they don't know that anything has happened. That's why it's called "hell-banning."

Shade7510
ah that clarifies a little bit. thanks. but, if you'll excuse my ignorance, how would i connect to an irc server like you've mentioned?
With an IRC client. There are several to choose from. I use one called irssi, even though it does have a bit of a learning curve.
Shade7510
that's why i put it in quotes. i meant before it became excessively popular and all the memes with it starting showing up everywhere. it has indeed always been around. but only in the past 5 years(?) or so if i recall correctly has it vastly overtaken everything even beyond the internet into real life and into the minds of the younger ages which has always worried me to such an extent.
This is a clustering illusion. You only see it in the last 5 years because you've noticed it. Believe me, nothing has changed. Trolling was just as bad and just as prevalent 25 years ago as it is today. Indeed, trolling was refined into an art on UseNet, a quarter century past.
Shade7510
i see your point in that. in which case i'd to agree that that's a very effective system. if they did implement it into gaia i'd be curious as to how great of changes would occur.
It would depend on how they implement it. A good implementation would show a significant and immediate effect, and that effect would reflect the state of the community as a whole.

Given the prevalence of stupidity I see here, I'd expect it wouldn't be a positive effect at first. At least, not until people recognize the poisonous trolls for what they are.
Shade7510
psychic stalker

Passing knowledge and wisdom to them is all well and good, but it does no one any good when they won't accept it.

and so define another sad fact in the lives of humans that they refuse to heed the warnings of others for they know not what they think they might know. it comes to a point with me where i don't try to convince them any more either, but rather advise they take my words into consideration and elaborate/convince if they ask. they either choose to heed or ignore. one way or another they'll learn. otherwise they suffer a life of cruelty and unhappiness. and i don't think anyone deserves that when instead they could live their lives to the fullest. i try, but i don't put in any extra effort if i don't deem it necessary.
And here, I've given up. I've tried that. Yes, they will learn, eventually. But it will be a long, slow process, and I'll be long-gone memory of the ancient past before that ever happens here.
Shade7510
psychic stalker

The problem with LI is that there are too many people who have no interest in providing good advice, or that have no good advice to give.

i see a little of both, but more of the former. there are people who like to help which i'm always glad to see. but some people don't take in to consideration the actual issue and just spout words to make them go away which does not help the mental image i've started to develop of humanity in recent years at all.
You see, then, my complaint. That's what makes Gaia so toxic to me.
Shade7510
that's promising. perhaps there is hope in some places.
There is. It's reassuring that there are people who want to learn - but those people tend to avoid places like this because, I think, they see the same problems I see: An unhealthy community with inefficient, unhelpful, and unhealthy moderation, and rules meant more to keep unruly, anti-social children in check than to elevate the level of discourse.
Shade7510
psychic stalker
If someone gets flagged here several times, there should be some visible repercussion - the posting should be hidden in such a way that you have to take extra steps to view it. Then, as someone gets flagged more and more on multiple posts, it should act as if they are getting added to everyone's ignore list - no matter where they post, their posts should be invisible to everyone unless someone takes special effort to view them.

In that way, the trolls simply go away. Hell-banning is far more effective than any other form of punishment, because the one getting hell-banned doesn't even know they've been silenced.

ohh so it's more like developing a bad reputation. when you post stupid things no one wants to hear they ignore you. thus it's that person that no one sees when they post not the post itself.
Precisely. That's why a lot of communities call it "karma." You earn in kind for what you put in. If you troll, you get trolled in kind, but in a way that benefits everyone. If you elevate discourse, you get held up as a shining example of good behavior. The entire community shapes itself around good behavior, and bad behavior is silently pushed out of view.
Shade7510
that'd be highly effective indeed then. on gaia the ignore list is convenient but if someone gets perma-banned they can just make a new account and continue their trolling. making the account banning not very effective it seems to me.
And more than that, the ignore list has some really painfully unhelpful effects: It used to be that it would only block those people from posting in threads you've started, and simply hid their posts from you everywhere else. But now, people on your ignore list can't even see your posts or threads you started at all. It has the effect of being completely exclusionary, and goes much farther than it should. It's terribly broken.

I can see what motivated it and why they decided to do it, but it's yet one more reason for me to leave. It's even more toxic than other decisions they've made. I can see this only getting worse as time goes on.

Benevolent Borg

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psychic stalker
With an IRC client. There are several to choose from. I use one called irssi, even though it does have a bit of a learning curve.

ah, alright then thank you.

psychic stalker
This is a clustering illusion. You only see it in the last 5 years because you've noticed it. Believe me, nothing has changed. Trolling was just as bad and just as prevalent 25 years ago as it is today. Indeed, trolling was refined into an art on UseNet, a quarter century past.

well i can't claim i've been using the internet for 25 years so i can't really argue any further with that then now can i? sweatdrop


psychic stalker

Given the prevalence of stupidity I see here, I'd expect it wouldn't be a positive effect at first. At least, not until people recognize the poisonous trolls for what they are.

that is hoping they do recognize the trolls.

psychic stalker

And here, I've given up. I've tried that. Yes, they will learn, eventually. But it will be a long, slow process, and I'll be long-gone memory of the ancient past before that ever happens here.

one can only learn through experiences. i don't think, in terms of "here" meaning gaia, that people will learn very much at all. in fact it's likely to only get worse. ignorance has already spread everywhere. it's no longer a concern of infection(expect with children) but rather the severity of the infection. actually, this all goes beyond gaia out toward the entire world. people are brainwashed into a feeble mindset by the media and taken advantage of. they don't know any better because what is better is kept hidden. instead they are fed lies that keep them in the dark. and so when you try to convince them of the light, they do not listen for they only know they darkness they're kept in. i do begin to question my reasoning for being here and doing what i do myself. in reality, i don't do a whole lot. i help out a few people but that's out of over 7 billion people. i make a difference, but not enough to where i'll ever be remembered. and that's the worst fear of all humans, to be forgotten. there's some reasoning behind my actions, but i'll now have to think them over a bit before i come up with figuring out why i do what i do.


psychic stalker

You see, then, my complaint. That's what makes Gaia so toxic to me.

yes sadly, i believe i do. but there will always be some good people on gaia and in the world itself. one can only hope those in need listen to the reasoning of the good ones and look past the bad ones.


psychic stalker
There is. It's reassuring that there are people who want to learn - but those people tend to avoid places like this because, I think, they see the same problems I see: An unhealthy community with inefficient, unhelpful, and unhealthy moderation, and rules meant more to keep unruly, anti-social children in check than to elevate the level of discourse.

but there is much one can learn from here as well believe it or not. i for example, learn of different troubleshooting methods and opinions from the regs such as yourself about techology related things. thus i wind up researching what i don't know/understand to try to get a better grasp of the discussion. though i may still not understand it, at least i know of it so that perhaps some time in the future i may become more acquainted with it.

i don't think it's a matter of where you go to learn but rather who you listen to. the first step is to listen. the second, who you listen to. and the third, to experience what it is you are listening to yourself to come up with your own conclusions.


psychic stalker
Precisely. That's why a lot of communities call it "karma." You earn in kind for what you put in. If you troll, you get trolled in kind, but in a way that benefits everyone. If you elevate discourse, you get held up as a shining example of good behaviour. The entire community shapes itself around good behavior, and bad behavior is silently pushed out of view.

reminds me of parenting. except when the child does something wrong they are scolded. and scolding is what a troll seeks. so instead you ignore them thus making it feel as though their post had no effect(which it successfully didn't.)

psychic stalker

And more than that, the ignore list has some really painfully unhelpful effects: It used to be that it would only block those people from posting in threads you've started, and simply hid their posts from you everywhere else. But now, people on your ignore list can't even see your posts or threads you started at all. It has the effect of being completely exclusionary, and goes much farther than it should. It's terribly broken.

I can see what motivated it and why they decided to do it, but it's yet one more reason for me to leave. It's even more toxic than other decisions they've made. I can see this only getting worse as time goes on.

i don't have a whole lot of people on my ignore list, but i've go a few. i know that claim you make about the ignore list as i've heard it before, but since i don't have many people on my ignore list i'm not so sure i can completely agree with you on equal terms. though i still do none-the-less.

while i do see trolls here and there i'm not so sure i can say i've seen as many as you have. that is, it doesn't seem as severe to me as you claim it to be. but perhaps it is because i don't acknowledge it when viewing threads. i guess i'd have to be a bit more observant to know for sure.
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