Art: What is it not?

[Stop Him]

Unchi-tan

Listen, Stop Him, you cannot prove that "everything that is created is art" because this statement is false.

Oh Christ. I don't know how to respond to this, because I can't tell if you're just unable to understand what I've been saying all this time - or if your writing is too dreadful to convey the idea back in an accurate manner.

That's not what I've been saying. At best, it's a garbled, edited, abridged version loosely based on things I've said, probably also confused with things other people have said. It's like a book made from a movie made from a book. Even when I've been going on about the definition of art that I've been using, that's NOT saying "everything that is created is art". I use conditions besides the mere creation. You're arguing against your own imagination, not me.

Unchi-tan

Before you hurr durr at me, listen up, it's a fact: "everything is art" is a modernist concept.

Okay... so it's a Modernist concept. We'll go with that. I can accept that statement as a fact.

Unchi-tan

You are looking at this argument from a modernist's point of view and you are rejecting all other definitions. Your argument is biased.

A) "Everything is art" is, once again, NOT what I've been saying. That is also a fact. So whether it's a Modernist concept or not makes no goddamn difference except to whatever argument you're having in your own head.

B) I am not outright rejecting other definitions so much as I am questioning the need for them, questioning their validity.

C) What, it can't be right because it's Modernist? No, that one would probably confuse the issue too much for you.

Unchi-tan

I hate modernism and post-modernism, but I included both in my definition anyway because I wanted it to be unbiased. I never said "abstract expressionism is not art", I said "abstract expressionism is art when the artist is aware of color theory and composition". It matters little to me if it's one or two blotches of paint, what makes it art or not art is the placement of these blotches and what color they are and what they mean, because this is what separates the work of an artist from stuff that is complete garbage. And the only way in which one can make this evaluation is by basing it on existing standards of composition and color. These are standards that don't change overtime, and they are safe for that reason.

"Being unbiased" means a bit more than just tossing in a few examples of things you dislike. You may hate modernism and post-modernism, but including those in your group does not remove all bias from your analysis. It's right there: the need for standards is your bias. It's as blatant as shaving a dead badger and throwing it into a room. It attracts notice like a neon sign that says "look, bias here."

You are not impartial to that issue. You are emotional about that issue. You accept it unquestioningly, as an article of faith. That is not objectivity.

When you mention what you supposedly hate, you say that you respect examples for their thought or their composition, or some other factor. That respect is bias. It is a feeling. It is - yes, an opinion, not a fact. Others respect different qualities, others hold varying standards. There is no constant, no proof for any of them, merely trends and tendencies.

That there have been standards by which one can judge the worth of a piece is not something I dispute.

I propose (have been proposing all along): the worth of a piece (which includes things like respect for its concepts or composition) does not have to define a piece as art. You call it garbage, I say, why can not garbage also be art? This does not mean that the garbage is equal to other art, it would simply mean that it could be art. This does not mean "everything" is art, but that I think (yes, an opinion) that there can be a more unbiased way to look at the concept of art.

This is what I'm trying to do. To strip away what I might feel about art and approach the question of "what is art" from what I can reasonably prove to be true about art. The two criteria I have so far may not, in the end, be the full and complete definition of art, but they do not depend on any emotion on my part to judge. I don't have to respect a concept to any degree, I don't have to appreciate the skill, I don't have to apply any feeling to the question at all.

The concept of art. The idea of art. Not whether a piece of art is of professional quality. Not whether it's worthy to be in a museum. Not whether someone should be able to get a job with it.

Unchi-tan

I came back to this thread in hopes that things would have calmed down, but no. You are all still being idiots and refusing to accept that without standards, there is no such thing is art.

By your standards. Why your standards, and not someone else's?

By your belief, your opinion. No fact of relevance, no proof.

Why should it calm down? You offer no solid opposition, only rancor, and your "ally" seems content to also stoke the name-calling.

Why should others accept your decree? You can't even argue against what I actually say, you make things up and pretend I say them.

Unchi-tan

I am appalled. And I am disgusted.

Your outrage is meaningless. You have made yourself into such an obnoxious self-righteous a** over this that any possible sympathy I could ever have had vanished long ago. Why you think this information is at all important to anyone else is a mystery.

I'm not even really trying to convince you so much anymore as I am performing for the crowd, any outside reader who may be interested.

Unchi-tan

And I am not the Major. He is smarter than I could ever hope to be.

God, you even stroke each other the same. Let's see if you share the same tactic of ignoring things because they're "too long to read".

[Stop Him]

Stop Him

You asked for what I considered "fact", and I told you, and not having any ability to respond to what you actually asked about, you pop a clutch shifting gears to go on about my "issues with criticism".

Stop Him

Major Malfunction

Wait, you're claiming that I'm a sockpuppet of Unchi or something?

Watch that stickshift, Dale Jr.

Major Malfunction

What the hell does NASCAR have to do with this discussion? Are you resorting to non-sequiturs now? Or perhaps are you just not funny?

Or, you're just dense and/or unobservant.

EDIT: Or trolling.

[Stop Him]

Let's see if I can head something that I'm sure is coming off at the pass.

A standard for art based on skill or any other sort of merit can never be a fact, by definition, by virtue of what a fact is.

In today's society, there are standards in practice for building bridges. These standards are based on math and science to ensure the durability of bridges used, and the safety of those who use them. These standards can be measured scientifically: the concrete used has to be able to withstand a certain minimum stress, the support structure has to hold under a variety of conditions.

The fact that there are accepted standards in the US does not mean that the standards are the same in, say, Pakistan, but if they build bridges over there they are still bridges, even if they're not as good. If people build a shaky, loose rope bridge over a canyon, it's still a bridge by definition, regardless of whether it meets accepted requirements for safety or durability. The standards that are accepted do not define what a bridge is.

But a standard for art based on things like composition, depth of thought, level of accurate anatomy: these things can not be scientifically measured. You can't hold a gauge up to a work of art and say "this art has 67% skill". You may be able to discern that it has more skill than another work of art, but it's a relative, subjective judgment.

And these things are relative and subjective regardless of who says them, or how long they've been put into practice. It doesn't matter whether it's Internet Arguer or Angus McArtHistory or Leonardo DaVinci himself, whether it's an opinion formed from decades of study or just a moment's inspiration someone had while on the can, it's still an opinion. Valuing these opinions as having relative worth (this opinion is better than that opinion) is itself a subjective judgment, also an opinion.

If you accept the definition of things like "fact", "objective", "subjective", and so on, then relative standards for art, where one piece of art is judged better than another, can not be anything except opinions - neither provable nor disprovable.

An institution or business may institute minimum standards for art that they publish or hang in their museum. But, because of the nature of what is being judged, there is a certain level of vagueness inherent in these judgments, at the line where someone has to decide whether a work fulfills a certain requirement or not. Someone uses their opinion and makes a value judgment, a decision not based on demonstrable fact.

To sum up, for those who can't bear to read: The existence of the standards may be a fact, but the standards themselves can not be anything but opinions.

[edit/asterisk: even standards for a bridge are put in place because of opinions, the opinion that it is better for a bridge to last for a long time, resist stresses, and not cause injury or death. Even that is an opinion that could be changed. Some might prefer a bridge that fails if it were the Taliban crossing it, for instance]

[xxellaxpopexx]

praeclaris304

xxellaxpopexx

Yeah, art without a story seems dull, and it gets passed bye and buryed under the others who do have a story. Thats why art is a very competitive carrer, You won't make without something absolutely stuning.
praeclaris304 is this something like what your trying to say.???
I don't think its on the mark, but is it close?
I think art should have a story, but I don't think it needs one. I don't know how to explain it right now (just woke up) but I'll try to come up with something later.

designed freedom

There is a lot of things that I find artistic without it being art. Like you I feel a piece needs to have something behind it, something if not in the design then in the color the light the composition, something that grabs at you and conveys emotion, story, purpose--again something--to the viewer--needs it to be art. However, there in comes perception, preference and opinion again.

I don't think to say that "art can be anything" is to devalue the toil of common artist (because let's be honest--what artist isn't fighting to stay ahead in that business?) but rather that it's lost it's true meaning.

Anything can be art if you make it into art. That says nothing about what it takes to turn it into art, but allows for the potential to be there.

I think thats what most belive when they say everything can be art. They just don't go though to explain themselves and some people just chose not to read between the lines.

@designed freedom - It is for the artists though, I wanted to say this but didn't have time, like, the common artist, and what art means, its for them because art first and foremost, is created by people. It's not just fighting ahead of the business, and if art has lost its true meaning, isn't it most devastating on the artist themselves?

What I mean is, that art, not in a professional sense even, needs to say something. It can't just be there just to be there, and I don't even need something that has an ultimate deeper meaning. I just feel that there should be something there that will ultimately hold the viewer to the visuals, and not just by visuals alone. The visuals and the fundamentals are essential for good story telling, it's a language that needs to be learned to fully understand and utilize. Neither is more important than the other because both are essential, one is the knowledge and the tools to be able to present the other extraordinarily well.

I get what you're saying, well what both of you are saying, I just disagree. There's nothing to be done really, you've explained your view, and I've explained mine, just as you say it's opinion... but I understand neither of us are probably going to change our own opinions. You asked for my explanation, so I tried to give the best I could, so at least we can say it was a real discussion smile I honestly believe there's a standard in art no matter what at the end of the day, talking to me about it is like a brick wall hahahah, sorry to say, and I'll admit it, I'm ridiculously mulish in that way. But I am grateful it was a polite conversation at the least.

XD It's all about opinion! but I do agree with you about art needing a story. (I have no clue what I was trying to say earlier O.o I shouldnt get on the computer just after a wake up anymore. XD) But I think this is what makes art so great. Everyone has there own opinion on it and it shows on there work. 3nodding

[xxellaxpopexx]

Stop Him

The existence of the standards may be a fact, but the standards themselves can not be anything but opinions.

And there it is folks!! What we've all been trying to say.

[Major Malfunction]

Stop Him

Or, you're just dense and/or unobservant.

Maybe I should have committed your posts to memory in case you decided to make a humorous reference to them later. However, I decided to dedicate that part of my brain to remembering how paint dries, since it's rather more interesting.

[Abyssia Holland]

I have often wondered about this myself. I find that, in my opinion right now:

1) art is a creation that a person put their whole heart into making;

2) and/or something created for a certain purpose, whether it's to cause laughter or tears.

[Tyrande Whisperwind]

xxellaxpopexx

And there it is folks!! What we've all been trying to say.

But but! The great Unchi-tan says this is wrong!

I mean, who humankind thinks they are to defy Unchi-tan's definition or right/wrong? Who are they to think they can form an opinion that goes against Unchi-tan? ...and Major Malfunction.

Major Malfunction

Wow, man. Thank you. That's the nicest thing I've been told all day. If people are mistaking me for Unchi, one of the best posters in AD, then I must be doing something right.

Unchi-tan

I came back to this thread in hopes that things would have calmed down, but no. You are all still being idiots and refusing to accept that without standards, there is no such thing is art.

Your standards for "best poster" is your opinion, and my opinion is that they're quite low.
Bashing and insulting other people's opinions, irrational, childish and unrespectful behavior are the "standards" for an annoying person. And who came up with that standard? All the good-behavior-community.

I'd like to say, in a discussion if you accept someone's point of view doesn't mean you lose or anything, there's no "winner" in a discussion.
You don't need to worry also about your e-image because accepting it doesn't mean anything bad, on the contrary, it shows you're mature.

[Tawdry Flame]

Tyrande Whisperwind]
Your standards for "best poster" is your opinion, and my opinion is that they're quite low.
Bashing and insulting other people's opinions, irrational, childish and unrespectful behavior are the "standards" for an annoying person. And who came up with that standard? All the good-behavior-commun

rjnt24dd:0="Tyrande Whisperwind]
Your standards for "best poster" is your opinion, and my opinion is that they're quite low.
Bashing and insulting other people's opinions, irrational, childish and unrespectful behavior are the "standards" for an [i]annoying[/i] person. And who came up with that standard? All the good-behavior-community.

Unchi may be abrasive and may make trouble in threads like this, but she actually contributes to the AD. She's a frequent presence who often gives good advice and brings a good deal of insight with her. If she starts things with the kids who come in from time to time, they're often just that - a kid with a big mouth starting things in the AD.

She's been here for a while, and she doesn't seem to get on too badly with most of the regs. Who are, by the way, a notoriously fairly disagreeable lot to begin with. If anything, Stop Him is usually the one causing trouble in "is this art" threads. I'm just glad to see that there isn't the issue of people fearing his green name too much to really reply - it's nice to see a proper argument in one of these without fear of bans.

Who the hell are you? You're some kid that came in last week as far as I can tell, you just argue with Unchi. You don't give your opinion to other threads, or weigh in on topics. If you've posted in the other threads, it sure wasn't much. You don't make posts that spawn interesting or helpful discussions. You don't seem to even function in the AD except from this thread. Don't talk about best poster. You have no idea about anyone here - yes, it's opinion, I see your point. But it's a damn stupid point to make when it's clear that at least Unchi and Major have been here for more than a few days of arguing. It's at least an opinion that has a basis of some observation behind it, which is more than you can refute.

In b4 "no u," because the concept of a mule seems to defy people.

[Tyrande Whisperwind]

Tawdry Flame

She's been here for a while, and she doesn't seem to get on too badly with most of the regs. Who are, by the way, a notoriously fairly disagreeable lot to begin with. If anything, Stop Him is usually the one causing trouble in "is this art" threads. I'm just glad to see that there isn't the issue of people fearing his green name too much to really reply - it's nice to see a proper argument in one of these without fear of bans.

This doesn't make him/her more right or wrong than anyone else.

And as far as I've seen, Stop Him is simply asking "Explain me why do you think that statement is true" and Unchi's losing temper because he/she can't answer something as simple as that.
(It would be easy to say "It's not an universal truth, but it's my opinion" - would settle everything quick and easy)

Tawdry Flame

Who the hell are you? You're some kid that came in last week as far as I can tell, you just argue with Unchi. You don't give your opinion to other threads, or weigh in on topics. If you've posted in the other threads, it sure wasn't much. You don't make posts that spawn interesting or helpful discussions. You don't seem to even function in the AD except from this thread. Don't talk about best poster. You have no idea about anyone here - yes, it's opinion, I see your point. But it's a damn stupid point to make when it's clear that at least Unchi and Major have been here for more than a few days of arguing. It's at least an opinion that has a basis of some observation behind it, which is more than you can refute.

I opine where I think it's relevant to.
90% of the threads here I don't find any significance in posting, either it's been responded to already or it's something I'd rather not comment - such as "rate my art skills!"
Making or participating in "interesting" other threads don't give credit on anything else a person may say.

And why would be it stupid? He/she may be the pope - but a pope on the internet and I'm not obligated to know or show any submission to his/her will just because he/she has e-fame.
(Even if the pope said that "without standards there is no art" I'd argue with him too, it means - everyone's equal by their right to opine)

So, in the last week, in 2 threads where I gave 2 opinions this random Unchi-tan guy/girl whom I never heard about directly criticizes my opinion, as if whatever he/she says is the absolute truth and I'm don't even have the right to think for myself.

And who the hell I am? I'm someone, just like you, and this is the first time (I think) I see a post of yours, and I don't give it less or more importance than any other because of that.
As far as my opinion on the best poster is concerned, why do you care? I and probably anyone else who joined the discussion at the same time should think about the same.

Maybe AD should have a separate subforum of "Newcomers - 5000 posts and you become a reg and can get out of here, meanwhile whatever you say or think is wrong unless stated otherwise by a reg and your opinion's worth less than someone else" right?

To me, whoever's agreeing with Unchi is agreeing that whatever he/she says is true (or the point of view) and anything else is wrong. And the world is doomed.

Edit: This reply is not just about you (it's partially) but to some who brought it up by saying that someone's have more rights than others just because of his ego.

[Einjelato]

I believe that if it crosses ethical issues - it is not art. Because although one may view it as such, it may just be teetering on being too extreme.

For example - would you consider a dead body carved with a beautiful image to be art?

[xxellaxpopexx]

Tawdry Flame

Tyrande Whisperwind]
Your standards for "best poster" is your opinion, and my opinion is that they're quite low.
Bashing and insulting other people's opinions, irrational, childish and unrespectful behavior are the "standards" for an annoying person. And who came up with that standard? All the good-behavior-commun

rjnt24dd:1="Tyrande Whisperwind]
Your standards for "best poster" is your opinion, and my opinion is that they're quite low.
Bashing and insulting other people's opinions, irrational, childish and unrespectful behavior are the "standards" for an [i]annoying[/i] person. And who came up with that standard? All the good-behavior-community.

Unchi may be abrasive and may make trouble in threads like this, but she actually contributes to the AD. She's a frequent presence who often gives good advice and brings a good deal of insight with her. If she starts things with the kids who come in from time to time, they're often just that - a kid with a big mouth starting things in the AD.

She's been here for a while, and she doesn't seem to get on too badly with most of the regs. Who are, by the way, a notoriously fairly disagreeable lot to begin with. If anything, Stop Him is usually the one causing trouble in "is this art" threads. I'm just glad to see that there isn't the issue of people fearing his green name too much to really reply - it's nice to see a proper argument in one of these without fear of bans.
Who the hell are you? You're some kid that came in last week as far as I can tell, you just argue with Unchi. You don't give your opinion to other threads, or weigh in on topics. If you've posted in the other threads, it sure wasn't much. You don't make posts that spawn interesting or helpful discussions. You don't seem to even function in the AD except from this thread. Don't talk about best poster. You have no idea about anyone here - yes, it's opinion, I see your point. But it's a damn stupid point to make when it's clear that at least Unchi and Major have been here for more than a few days of arguing. It's at least an opinion that has a basis of some observation behind it, which is more than you can refute.

In b4 "no u," because the concept of a mule seems to defy people.

yes, Unchi does give good advise alot and there are a few things that I do agree with her about. but you really have no right to call Tyande Whisperwind a no good kid sure she's said things that are rude, but about at this point Everyone has Including Unchi. Including me stare and now you.

[Tawdry Flame]

Tyrande Whisperwind

This doesn't make him/her more right or wrong than anyone else.

And as far as I've seen, Stop Him is simply asking "Explain me why do you think that statement is true" and Unchi's losing temper because he/she can't answer something as simple as that.
(It would be easy to say "It's not an universal truth, but it's my opinion" - would settle everything quick and easy)

And I see an awful lot of Stop Him being no more or no less of an off-topic clown than everyone else in this thread. You're just standing behind him because he's taking the same side of this argument as you. Grow up and don't try to play "forum allies" if you hate it when Unchi and Major do it. Don't uphold him like a victimized saint - when Unchi mentioned his "reputation" it wasn't idle gossip. He's had his fair share of threads just like this where he was the one dragging everyone through the mud.
We all have.

That's half of my point. You can't come into a place and pretend to know it's regs better than they do. Don't play innocent observer.

Your opinion on art isn't lessened by being new to the AD. Your opinion on the Art Discussion, however, is.

Tyrande Whisperwind

I opine where I think it's relevant to.
90% of the threads here I don't find any significance in posting, either it's been responded to already or it's something I'd rather not comment - such as "rate my art skills!"

Why would I be talking about spam and misplaced threads? The AD might get a lot of them, but they're not the only thing here.

In fact, that's what is pleasant about Unchi. Rather than making constant threads about how awful the AD is, she makes ones that try to encourage the AD towards better content, like her Tips thread that I'm sure you're extremely familiar with.

Leave the misplaced threads alone. Create good ones if you're dissatisfied with the existing ones. Post in the good threads. This isn't so hard - obviously, Unchi manages it just fine.

And since you're so quick to display your contempt for her, I should expect better from you.

Tyrande Whisperwind

Making or participating in "interesting" other threads don't give credit on anything else a person may say.

And why would be it stupid? He/she may be the pope - but a pope on the internet and I'm not obligated to know or show any submission to his/her will just because he/she has e-fame.
(Even if the pope said that "without standards there is no art" I'd argue with him too, it means - everyone's equal by their right to opine)

So, in the last week, in 2 threads where I gave 2 opinions this random Unchi-tan guy/girl whom I never heard about directly criticizes my opinion, as if whatever he/she says is the absolute truth and I'm don't even have the right to think for myself.

And who the hell I am? I'm someone, just like you, and this is the first time (I think) I see a post of yours, and I don't give it less or more importance than any other because of that.
As far as my opinion on the best poster is concerned, why do you care? I and probably anyone else who joined the discussion at the same time should think about the same.

Insert a complete lack of disbelief that you didn't read the last line of my post. Oh well, can't expect literacy on Gaia can I?

Some of us have a few reasons to have more than one account, and it's not trolling. wink

Tyrande Whisperwind

Maybe AD should have a separate subforum of "Newcomers - 5000 posts and you become a reg and can get out of here, meanwhile whatever you say or think is wrong unless stated otherwise by a reg and your opinion's worth less than someone else" right?

See what I said above. Don't pretend that I'm making this an issue of your experience or art knowledge. I'm only refuting your knowledge of the forum's regs. Making sweeping statements about their previous behavior is arrogant and ignorant when you haven't been here for it.

It's not about you being new - it's about people acting like jumping into two threads to argue entitles them to judge all about people who have been here. People who try to give advice and who manage to be respectful to others in this forum.

You don't know any of us. Don't act like regs who have contributed to this forum are a detriment that you're here to magically save the AD from. The AD has historically managed itself just fine without the utterly altruistic aid of Chatterboxers who will save us from people who give their time to try and help and offer their opinion.

Tyrande Whisperwind

To me, whoever's agreeing with Unchi is agreeing that whatever he/she says is true (or the point of view) and anything else is wrong. And the world is doomed.

Oh good lord. We haven't had enough hystrionics in here yet? The world is doomed! Can I get some thunder crashes after that, maybe? There isn't quite enough tragic and dramatic punctuation to quite cover it.

xxellaxpopexx

yes, Unchi does give good advise alot and there are a few things that I do agree with her about. but you really have no right to call Tyande Whisperwind a no good kid sure she's said things that are rude, but about at this point Everyone has Including Unchi. Including me stare and now you.

Oh, snap. Someone was rude on the internet to people who are already being rude. The world is going to come to an end, crashing down. Is this the doom Tyrande is afraid of?

[xxellaxpopexx]

Tawdry Flame

Tyrande Whisperwind

This doesn't make him/her more right or wrong than anyone else.

And as far as I've seen, Stop Him is simply asking "Explain me why do you think that statement is true" and Unchi's losing temper because he/she can't answer something as simple as that.
(It would be easy to say "It's not an universal truth, but it's my opinion" - would settle everything quick and easy)

And I see an awful lot of Stop Him being no more or no less of an off-topic clown than everyone else in this thread. You're just standing behind him because he's taking the same side of this argument as you. Grow up and don't try to play "forum allies" if you hate it when Unchi and Major do it. Don't uphold him like a victimized saint - when Unchi mentioned his "reputation" it wasn't idle gossip. He's had his fair share of threads just like this where he was the one dragging everyone through the mud.
We all have.

That's half of my point. You can't come into a place and pretend to know it's regs better than they do. Don't play innocent observer.

Your opinion on art isn't lessened by being new to the AD. Your opinion on the Art Discussion, however, is.

Tyrande Whisperwind

I opine where I think it's relevant to.
90% of the threads here I don't find any significance in posting, either it's been responded to already or it's something I'd rather not comment - such as "rate my art skills!"

Why would I be talking about spam and misplaced threads? The AD might get a lot of them, but they're not the only thing here.

In fact, that's what is pleasant about Unchi. Rather than making constant threads about how awful the AD is, she makes ones that try to encourage the AD towards better content, like her Tips thread that I'm sure you're extremely familiar with.

Leave the misplaced threads alone. Create good ones if you're dissatisfied with the existing ones. Post in the good threads. This isn't so hard - obviously, Unchi manages it just fine.

And since you're so quick to display your contempt for her, I should expect better from you.

Tyrande Whisperwind

Making or participating in "interesting" other threads don't give credit on anything else a person may say.

And why would be it stupid? He/she may be the pope - but a pope on the internet and I'm not obligated to know or show any submission to his/her will just because he/she has e-fame.
(Even if the pope said that "without standards there is no art" I'd argue with him too, it means - everyone's equal by their right to opine)

So, in the last week, in 2 threads where I gave 2 opinions this random Unchi-tan guy/girl whom I never heard about directly criticizes my opinion, as if whatever he/she says is the absolute truth and I'm don't even have the right to think for myself.

And who the hell I am? I'm someone, just like you, and this is the first time (I think) I see a post of yours, and I don't give it less or more importance than any other because of that.
As far as my opinion on the best poster is concerned, why do you care? I and probably anyone else who joined the discussion at the same time should think about the same.

Insert a complete lack of disbelief that you didn't read the last line of my post. Oh well, can't expect literacy on Gaia can I?

Some of us have a few reasons to have more than one account, and it's not trolling. wink

Tyrande Whisperwind

Maybe AD should have a separate subforum of "Newcomers - 5000 posts and you become a reg and can get out of here, meanwhile whatever you say or think is wrong unless stated otherwise by a reg and your opinion's worth less than someone else" right?

See what I said above. Don't pretend that I'm making this an issue of your experience or art knowledge. I'm only refuting your knowledge of the forum's regs. Making sweeping statements about their previous behavior is arrogant and ignorant when you haven't been here for it.

It's not about you being new - it's about people acting like jumping into two threads to argue entitles them to judge all about people who have been here. People who try to give advice and who manage to be respectful to others in this forum.

You don't know any of us. Don't act like regs who have contributed to this forum are a detriment that you're here to magically save the AD from. The AD has historically managed itself just fine without the utterly altruistic aid of Chatterboxers who will save us from people who give their time to try and help and offer their opinion.

Tyrande Whisperwind

To me, whoever's agreeing with Unchi is agreeing that whatever he/she says is true (or the point of view) and anything else is wrong. And the world is doomed.

Oh good lord. We haven't had enough hystrionics in here yet? The world is doomed! Can I get some thunder crashes after that, maybe? There isn't quite enough tragic and dramatic punctuation to quite cover it.

xxellaxpopexx

yes, Unchi does give good advise alot and there are a few things that I do agree with her about. but you really have no right to call Tyande Whisperwind a no good kid sure she's said things that are rude, but about at this point Everyone has Including Unchi. Including me stare and now you.

Oh, snap. Someone was rude on the internet to people who are already being rude. The world is going to come to an end, crashing down. Is this the doom Tyrande is afraid of?

....pffft...BWAHAHAHA XD omg I'm gonna cry XD
SO what if she Isen't a reg? what does that have to do with enything?

[Tawdry Flame]

xxellaxpopexx

....pffft...BWAHAHAHA XD omg I'm gonna cry XD
SO what if she Isen't a reg? what does that have to do with enything?

If you have such difficulty reading words, why do you continue to reply? Are you secretly in violation of the COPPA law? I thought public schools urged proficiency in reading by sixth grade.

Ah, well, let me restate my entire point once more.

Tyrande was making sweeping insults about an AD reg regarding her past behavior in the forum.

Tyrande has not been present in the AD for long, has little to no idea about said reg's previous behavior.

Said reg has contributed to the forum, despite Tyrande's claims. Said reg has contributed a good deal more than Tyrande has. Tyrande has not actually contributed anything, actually, as far as I can see. And I see a great deal.

So I pointed this out.

Then you did not read anything I said.

Now we are up to the present. Is that a satisfactory bullet point recap, or will you require me to break it down further for your digestion?