Welcome to Gaia! ::

To many people, the haoldays mean many things. For some, it's an excuse to stuff your face, until you gain a few pounds, and for others, it's merely a way to manipulate others, into getting you what you want. My question is, what to the holdays mean to you? And has society twisted and warped what it really means to have a holiday?

I'm atheist, as Madamfluff, though at the moment leaning slightly toward agnostic.

Halloween means, to me, simply a festival to honour one's past. You know, all that worship of the ancestors and celebrating the dead, sort of thing. I like the idea behind trick-or-treating as a means for gaining candy as a ten year old, but it's not my thing.

Christmas? Easy. A time for spending with the family regardless of situation and to make peace between each other. Giving gifts is fun - it's not the price of the gift, but that there's good will behind that present for the recipient. It's not the gift itself, but the appreciation that comes with it, and that's why I love Christmas.

Jesus Christ's "birthday" and the Nativity? Nah. I like my days snuggled up with hot cocoa, gathered in the living room and swapping tales and telling stories.

Even then, there is great dispute about the actual date of Christ's birthday. I mean, my father is a Christian and strictly believes that Christmas is on the 25th of September and there is near divorces each and every year as my mother was raised up with the Afrikaner Dutch-Orthodox Church style of Christianity where they celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December, but you have to go on Christmas Eve to church to almost, 'sing Christ into his umpteenth birthday'

Annoyed. And I have told her about my views, and that as I respect her beliefs, she needs to respect mine (and this is mostly in connection with the great use of my 'potty' mouth). I can see it greatly disturbs her that I'm not even spiritual as my sister is (and she's into Tarot, Astrology, Karma and all that hippie crap, no offense sweatdrop ) and she truly believes that I should find God in my own time and be happy. confused

HOWEVER! Whenever I make comments about people being high on the Jesus Juice, she gets into a fit of hysterics? As well the one time when I commented on whether people who apparently hear the voice of God, whether they are actually schizophrenic or not? I accept the way she handles her relgious beliefs, and gets the stone needle s**t fits whenever I utter her God's name in vein, she seems a tad too relaxed (except when it comes to Christmas and Easter ninja )

z0mg Taily! That almost sounds like Intelligent Design logic in the end, there. Return to the dark side, now.

My views on holidays have pretty much been stated; its a time to get together with family and be happy.

I'm agnostic, though. In my case, it means the following:

(1) I believe in a god, if we define a god as an existance without which nothing would exist. In other words, 'everything' can be god, because, if everything did not exist, nothing would.
(2) The nature of god, including whether or not god is animate, conscious, gives a damn about us, etc., is logically uncertain.
(3) I don't particularly care about the nature of this god, so I do not attempt to speculate on it.
(4) I do not limit myself to the traditions of any given religion.

Wow, I have seemed to stir up quite a bit of conversation amongst everyone. Yay! for conversation! anywho let me catch up on the gossip right quick.



To Madamfluff! about your mother..I just don't know what to say about that. I mean I see alot of crazy protestors claiming they are christian but scream and shout at gays and call them horrible things like "fags" and such then asking them to come to christ. Most of the time I don't think that is much of a christain thing to do! So, all I can really say about your mothers case is that she does need to respect your stand on things, and if she is as gun-hoe into religion as she seems to be from this side of things, then she should hold respect for your stand on things and have conversations with you and have you both come to an agreement on things. If you are living with your parents (assuming you are.) you should as a child respect the household and come to an agreement with your parents on what you can do to keep things from getting out of hand with the relgiousness of it all.

To Talios! So you don't like organized religion. How do you feel about the goverment, what do you vote?? because most of the time, the whole goverment thing and everything around us. EVERYTHING has some pick of speck of religious intervention or influence. Then, seeing that you are starting to change your mind, you would be more of an agnostic. But what is this firm "knowledge" of you knowing there is no high power??

Back to MadamFluff! As for the whole pure form of christianity you are so right. I don't think anyone can find a pure undieing form of it considering how much religion has changed and moved through out the world. I mean out thanksgiving is celebrating the piligrams moving to a new world for freedom of religion...then they hung the indains for not converting to their form of religion, interesting no?

Now, I am a christain, I am praticing as well, but am I conformed no. I don't really know how I am stuck in it really. I do believe in God, the God and such. But I am so confused because I was sorta dragged into it as a child, my parents became christains, and then dragged us (the childern) into it with out choice, and we went from being really religious to hippy religious to being really crazy religious again then to ok I am cool religious so as far as relgion goes for me. I know what I am, but I don't know how to go about doing it. ....if that makes anysense at all.

Wow! So much it seems! Well, I understand where you are coming from when it comes to the whole I am not very religious and I am very atheist bit. Although I am a very spiritual person. It was pretty much bred into me on my fathers side. My grandmother (Whom died before I was born.) was a praticing tarot card, palm readings, and also did outer body experiences. My father had that same mental and spiritual connection with his mother and did many of the same things she did. Well, like many people I get deju vu, and other such...ghosty weirdness. (I am not claming anything!!) So, out of some sorta' crazy idea in my head I asked my father to buy me some tarot cards (They are bad luck if you buy them for your self, they have to be a gift.) So I began to practice. I started...well....not having the best of times with them at all no thank you, and my father felt a change so they were quickly taken away from me. With much relife. ANYWHO! what I am going on about and may not make much sense is that. Some people I think are sorta' born to be spiritual, and have that deep connection and need for knowledge of other things, and some people just don't care, they live how they want to live with their own desires and wants and needs. Perhapes you are that sort of person (Atheist) It hurts about what your father did with the whole verse thing and not having it memorised and it is a horrible church to be calling people "heathens" and no one correcting the mistake. It sounds like you need a new church/religion if they are putting you through all that nonsense.


So, blah blah. Uhm...where as I. Oh yes. I think in the end of all things, you just need to find something that calls to you or that you are comfortable with. respect your parents decisons on things they are only trying to help, be polite to religious fanatics (Or shoot them in the head) Uhhhh...eat your greens. Be happy! 4laugh

It does, and i'm kind of trying to avoid it as much as possible by not thinking about it.

But I do admit. It's slowly getting to a stage where i'm no longer confident that life came together by random chance via a set of environmental variables by looking at the complexity of humans.

At the same time, i'm only leaning away from that stance slightly. I'm nowhere near the idea that we were totally put together by God just yet. Still a Sith, but my alignment's just gone a few points toward the Jedi side. ; ;



That's why I said I was slowly becoming more agnostic than full atheist, Ses. ;]

Government? I don't vote. It's also definitely more influence... unless God has his support behind Labour and Satan controls the Conservatives. Replace Democrats and Republicans in there at your leisure, if need be? England certainly has many laws and rules in place after religious influence, because most of them date back from the mediaeval days anyway. The changes just happen to reflect modern day; the basic message behind most laws is the same.

There is no firm knowledge; the quotation marks symbolise how I believe it to be. I feel that I have enough knowledge to say - to myself, and myself alone - that I cannot believe in a higher conscious power.