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 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:54 pm
Well, this one's a flashback episode that shows how the all the members of the team came to join Torchwood.
A bit derivative (a lot of SF shows have done this story at some point), and a bit silly at times, but...I really liked it. True, I say this about most episodes, but I found it very interesting, and overall rather good
Especially considering how little back story we've had on most of the characters.
People will criticise this episode on a lack of originality (There is an explosion, main character(s) falls(s) unconscious, has/have flashbacks to before the series to develop a bit of a back story...), but Torchwood ,and even Doctor Who, aren't exactly renowned for their original plotlines. Look at some of the latter show's stuff from the mid 70's. I wouldn't exactly call a lot of that original, yet many consider this period to be the series' golden age.
So anyway, I liked this episode quite a lot, and, thanks in part to the episode cliffhanger and proceeding trailer, as well as my own fanboyism, I can hardly wait for Exit Wounds. I hope it lives up to the last couple of episodes.
Being a Chibnall episode, I should probably be hoping for the worst, but his writing has improved since last series, so you never know...
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:12 am
I was irritated by the conclusion - that episode with John was awful, so I don't have high hopes for the finale - but the Ianto flashback was wonderful. The other two got a bit melodramatic at times, but the Ianto one was funny, and had a pterodactyl. <3<3
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:40 am
Sideburns.
That is all.
heart
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:14 am
I loved this episode. Mainly it shows us that Toshiko knew about the Doctor before she met him all the way back in series one. Remember that Asian doctor that the 9th Doctor meets there? Yeah that's Toshiko now go back and watch those episodes again :p.
I was rather taken back by Owen was about to be married because when you first meet him back in series one he is a playboy and he basically shagging every woman on the show >_>;
Jack I enjoyed how detailed they got with how many deaths they went back in time for him. Over 1000 something XD. Well I enjoyed how they said why Jack joined Torchwood but he should not know that Torchwood was created because of the Doctor because he was not with him at all during series two. I did find it interesting the little girl was there. I'm wondering if she will have importance in the series finale or she's just there. >_>
The main thing I enjoyed about Ianto's flashback was because it confirmed my guess that was him at Canary Wharf and that was Martha's cousin(who was played by her). I originally thought it was not them because the woman who played Lisa was not Freema. I wonder if behind the scenes if Martha and Ianto talked about her cousin and what really happened to her.
I thought the cliff hanger was perfect to introduce the series finale of the show and I'm very curious how jack's brother will play into this.
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:42 pm
Dyne Valentine I was rather taken back by Owen was about to be married because when you first meet him back in series one he is a playboy and he basically shagging every woman on the show >_>; I think that pretty much explains why the Owen we know and "love" is such a playboy. I mean, if your fiance was killed by an alien life-form in his/her head, would you look for someone get tied down to all over again (at least straight away)?
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:01 am
Travis III Dyne Valentine I was rather taken back by Owen was about to be married because when you first meet him back in series one he is a playboy and he basically shagging every woman on the show >_>; I think that pretty much explains why the Owen we know and "love" is such a playboy. I mean, if your fiance was killed by an alien life-form in his/her head, would you look for someone get tied down to all over again (at least straight away)? Yeah, good point and it also explains why he is not interested in getting involved with Toshiko.
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:35 am
Dyne Valentine I loved this episode. Mainly it shows us that Toshiko knew about the Doctor before she met him all the way back in series one. Remember that Asian doctor that the 9th Doctor meets there? Yeah that's Toshiko now go back and watch those episodes again :p. And she was captured by UNIT, if I'm not mistaken. Quote: I was rather taken back by Owen was about to be married because when you first meet him back in series one he is a playboy and he basically shagging every woman on the show >_>; Yeah, that was definitely as surprise to me, but it makes sense about how he was in Season One.. he doesn't want to fall in love again, so he goes for the casual sex. Quote: Jack I enjoyed how detailed they got with how many deaths they went back in time for him. Over 1000 something XD. Well I enjoyed how they said why Jack joined Torchwood but he should not know that Torchwood was created because of the Doctor because he was not with him at all during series two. I did find it interesting the little girl was there. I'm wondering if she will have importance in the series finale or she's just there. >_> It's Jack's second 'lifetime'.. the first one is where he's a Time Agent and then meets the Doctor and then gets dumped and stuck in the past, and now it's his second 'lifetime', where he's living through it, and so cannot die. I look at it this way: if Jack comes back to life during a flashback, he's already been through the Dalek battle. So it's gotta be taking place after he met the Doctor. (All of present-time Torchwood is his 'second life', and he knows of the Doctor's involvement with Torchwood already. Quote: The main thing I enjoyed about Ianto's flashback was because it confirmed my guess that was him at Canary Wharf and that was Martha's cousin(who was played by her). I originally thought it was not them because the woman who played Lisa was not Freema. I wonder if behind the scenes if Martha and Ianto talked about her cousin and what really happened to her. I was finally very happy when this came up, because we know the least about Ianto, apart from his cyber-girlfriend being an obvious result of Canary Wharf. It was great how he kept complementing Jack's uniform and then Jack tells him he's hired and says "love the tie" or something. And Ianto's Pterodactyl. heart Quote: I thought the cliff hanger was perfect to introduce the series finale of the show and I'm very curious how jack's brother will play into this.
It should be very interesting, especially now that we know Grey is being hidden by John. What I don't get is why John's so annoyed/upset at Jack.. Jack says he's not coming back to an old lifestyle because he's got Torchwood now... so John tries to blatantly kill everyone.... twice.
I'm predicting that the season finale will end either with John or Grey being killed or injured. I really don't think that Jack is going to play 'follow the leader' with getting his little brother back.
First he's noticeably changed when John says 'I found Grey', but manages to hide it from the rest of the group. Then Adam brings out his past and he's definitely upset and blaming himself for what happened. Now John has a hologram of Grey and pretty much threatening to get rid of him.
Jack is already ticked off at John for trying to kill off his groupies, so I don't think he's gonna waste much time in trying to track down John and beating the crap out of him. Or something. confused And get his brother back.
I just wanna know if Jack's gonna sit everyone down and summarize his (very long) lifetime, or if he's gonna just run off again.
With all those references to the Doctor in Episode 11.. (random drunk conversations, lol : "First I'm gonna kiss him, then I'm gonna kill him") I wouldn't be surprised if they just let the cat out of the bag already. rolleyes
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:06 am
I was actually dead chuffed about John. I'd been thinking about him and his possible motivations and stuff a lot a few weeks ago (was writing a fic. I have to think through every character, I'm really fussy about non-OOCness.) and it seems I was right. yay me! biggrin
I really doubt John dies. Have a POSSIBLE spoiler/rumour thing: Both RTD and James Marsters have been heard saying they'd like to bring the character of John back in the future. Which sounds to me like almost proof there will be a series 3! As for Grey/Gray... well, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets killed.
OK, and now let's actually talk about the actual episode in question, yeah?
I loved Jack, Ianto and Owen's back-story. While they weren't what I'd imagined, after seeing them I have to admit: they were perfect. Tosh's I'm not quite so sure about. I liked it, I guess, but it just didn't quite hit the nail on the head as much as the others. For me, anyway.
And Ianto's from the 20th century - I'm so sad, he was meant to be in the wrong time, so far as I was concerned. Then again, I was also under the impression Owen was probably going to have been shagging a nurse that turned out to be an alien so yeah - dead wrong. xD
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:55 am
Yeah, well...showdown in Season Three! xD
And I wouldn't wanna see Grey become part of Torchwood, because that would just be weird. And that would inevitably be what happens... he can't just be a civilian like the rest of them.. Jack would insist that Grey join them.. they've missed out on a lot of time, anyways... and it would still be weird.
So I'm thinking something will happen to him.. whether he's sucked up by the rift, or is killed, or memory wipe, or something.
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:50 pm
but surely... well, while this is purely speculation based on what little we know, but if I were Gray I wouldn't want to join up! I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the big brother who deserted me (no matter how accidentally). I mean, he seems to be a grown man by now (now not being now, but whenever John found him) and he's lived his whole life knowing he was deserted by his big brother, the one who was responsible for him. And abandoned on Tattooine the beach like that, who knows what he saw/faced/went through?
I'd be angry with Jack. VERY angry.
... wonder if we'll find out Jack's real name biggrin
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:26 pm
ogs-chan but surely... well, while this is purely speculation based on what little we know, but if I were Gray I wouldn't want to join up! I wouldn't want to have anything to do with the big brother who deserted me (no matter how accidentally). I mean, he seems to be a grown man by now (now not being now, but whenever John found him) and he's lived his whole life knowing he was deserted by his big brother, the one who was responsible for him. And abandoned on Tattooine the beach like that, who knows what he saw/faced/went through? I'd be angry with Jack. VERY angry. ... wonder if we'll find out Jack's real name biggrin
The way I see it, Jack is clearly upset about losing his brother, and wants to find him. If John has been talking to Grey (I'm guessing he has), he could easily have made Grey think of Jack as someone who left him behind, and Grey would be angry at Jack... but who knows..
And I somehow don't think we will... it's kinda like a parallel to the Doctor.. in a way.. smile
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:31 pm
I could have sworn I saw death and his minions right at the end of the preview. surprised
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:23 pm
Warning: Long post ahead Ceribri And she was captured by UNIT, if I'm not mistaken. True but go all the way back to series one and watch the episode Aliens of London and you will see that she is in it. Plus this episode takes place after Jack got her out of prison. Quote: Yeah, that was definitely as surprise to me, but it makes sense about how he was in Season One.. he doesn't want to fall in love again, so he goes for the casual sex. But! He did fall in love close to the series finale and the name slips me but they show her during one of Owen's flashbacks. Quote: It's Jack's second 'lifetime'.. the first one is where he's a Time Agent and then meets the Doctor and then gets dumped and stuck in the past, and now it's his second 'lifetime', where he's living through it, and so cannot die. I look at it this way: if Jack comes back to life during a flashback, he's already been through the Dalek battle. So it's gotta be taking place after he met the Doctor. (All of present-time Torchwood is his 'second life', and he knows of the Doctor's involvement with Torchwood already. I highly doubt that he would have known the Doctor was in Torchwood. The main thing that kept going thought the entire series one was Bad Wolf and that was Rose trying to send herself a message through time. The reason why I believe that he would not know is because we meet Jack well after Torchwood is gone and when he does go back he looks confused that those women even know about the Doctor. Quote: And Ianto's Pterodactyl. heart Yeah, I was also wondering where they got that Pterodactyl XD Quote:
It should be very interesting, especially now that we know Grey is being hidden by John. What I don't get is why John's so annoyed/upset at Jack.. Jack says he's not coming back to an old lifestyle because he's got Torchwood now... so John tries to blatantly kill everyone.... twice.
I think that Jack might have a darker past that he wanted to keep there but John brought it back. Remember when he tried to con Rose? The Jack in Torchwood would never con someone. Quote: I'm predicting that the season finale will end either with John or Grey being killed or injured. I really don't think that Jack is going to play 'follow the leader' with getting his little brother back. First he's noticeably changed when John says 'I found Grey', but manages to hide it from the rest of the group. Then Adam brings out his past and he's definitely upset and blaming himself for what happened. Now John has a hologram of Grey and pretty much threatening to get rid of him. Jack is already ticked off at John for trying to kill off his groupies, so I don't think he's gonna waste much time in trying to track down John and beating the crap out of him. Or something. confused And get his brother back. I think that Grey might die and with that it might push Jack to the edge of killing John. Quote: ]I just wanna know if Jack's gonna sit everyone down and summarize his (very long) lifetime, or if he's gonna just run off again. I think he might keep that hidden but might tell either Gwen or Ianto. Quote: With all those references to the Doctor in Episode 11.. (random drunk conversations, lol : "First I'm gonna kiss him, then I'm gonna kill him") I wouldn't be surprised if they just let the cat out of the bag already. rolleyes Yeah, I found it rather annoyed how every time that someone knows the Doctor on the series they go around saying directly "The Doctor" by saying "I needed to find my Doctor." or "We were under the same Doctor." Torchwood was made because his actions at the Torchwood estate and his bet with Rose to get queen Victoria to say "We are not amused" in the episode Tooth and Claw.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:32 pm
Dyne Valentine Warning: Long post ahead Ceribri And she was captured by UNIT, if I'm not mistaken. True but go all the way back to series one and watch the episode Aliens of London and you will see that she is in it. Plus this episode takes place after Jack got her out of prison. I've seen all those episodes multiple times, and I have noticed it was Tosh there. However, I'm not entirely sure that she knows about the Doctor. Probably just 'some guy' (from UNIT) who happened to know about the pig. I don't think too many people can just barge into that place. xD Quote: Quote: Yeah, that was definitely as surprise to me, but it makes sense about how he was in Season One.. he doesn't want to fall in love again, so he goes for the casual sex. But! He did fall in love close to the series finale and the name slips me but they show her during one of Owen's flashbacks. What? Oh, her. Yeah. And then he was devastated when she left. I think he liked her in the first place because she didn't quite fit in, like him. Or something. He's a bit of a romantic at heart (deep, deep down xD) but that was when he started to change.. and it led up to him telling Tosh (Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) that he's just gonna wait for the right person. (aka: beginning of subtle hints that he likes Tosh to set up another subplot) Quote: Quote: It's Jack's second 'lifetime'.. the first one is where he's a Time Agent and then meets the Doctor and then gets dumped and stuck in the past, and now it's his second 'lifetime', where he's living through it, and so cannot die. I look at it this way: if Jack comes back to life during a flashback, he's already been through the Dalek battle. So it's gotta be taking place after he met the Doctor. (All of present-time Torchwood is his 'second life', and he knows of the Doctor's involvement with Torchwood already. I highly doubt that he would have known the Doctor was in Torchwood. The main thing that kept going thought the entire series one was Bad Wolf and that was Rose trying to send herself a message through time. The reason why I believe that he would not know is because we meet Jack well after Torchwood is gone and when he does go back he looks confused that those women even know about the Doctor. He didn't know the Doctor was in Torchwood. He just knew that these people were searching for him and would do whatever it took, and Jack wasn't going to give up information like that if he could help it. (sort of like how Jackie is protective of the Doctor's whereabouts) Jack only just finds out about the Doctor being involved with Torchwood when he meets up in Season Three of DW and explains that "I changed Torchwood in your honor". Quote: Quote: And Ianto's Pterodactyl. heart Yeah, I was also wondering where they got that Pterodactyl XD But it's Ianto's Pterodactyl. Which is pretty cool. ^^ Quote: Quote: It should be very interesting, especially now that we know Grey is being hidden by John. What I don't get is why John's so annoyed/upset at Jack.. Jack says he's not coming back to an old lifestyle because he's got Torchwood now... so John tries to blatantly kill everyone.... twice. I think that Jack might have a darker past that he wanted to keep there but John brought it back. Remember when he tried to con Rose? The Jack in Torchwood would never con someone. You've got a point there. Jack clearly has a past with John and the Time Agents (timeline 1), and with the old Torchwood (timeline 2). Either way, there have been memories popping up that Jack clearly didn't want to see again, thanks to John. Quote: Quote: I'm predicting that the season finale will end either with John or Grey being killed or injured. I really don't think that Jack is going to play 'follow the leader' with getting his little brother back. First he's noticeably changed when John says 'I found Grey', but manages to hide it from the rest of the group. Then Adam brings out his past and he's definitely upset and blaming himself for what happened. Now John has a hologram of Grey and pretty much threatening to get rid of him. Jack is already ticked off at John for trying to kill off his groupies, so I don't think he's gonna waste much time in trying to track down John and beating the crap out of him. Or something. confused And get his brother back. I think that Grey might die and with that it might push Jack to the edge of killing John. Sounds good to me. Quote: Quote: I just wanna know if Jack's gonna sit everyone down and summarize his (very long) lifetime, or if he's gonna just run off again. I think he might keep that hidden but might tell either Gwen or Ianto. He'd probably tell Ianto. xD They've been through so much already, so why not? rolleyes Quote: Quote: With all those references to the Doctor in Episode 11.. (random drunk conversations, lol : "First I'm gonna kiss him, then I'm gonna kill him") I wouldn't be surprised if they just let the cat out of the bag already. rolleyes Yeah, I found it rather annoyed how every time that someone knows the Doctor on the series they go around saying directly "The Doctor" by saying "I needed to find my Doctor." or "We were under the same Doctor." Torchwood was made because his actions at the Torchwood estate and his bet with Rose to get queen Victoria to say "We are not amused" in the episode Tooth and Claw. It was kinda cute in the first few stories of Season One, but after that it was more like product placement. DX At least the references between Jack and Martha were worth it, but they weren't as meaningful because of all the lines that Jack keeps throwing around. >_>
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:16 pm
Warning: Whovian content aheadCeribri I've seen all those episodes multiple times, and I have noticed it was Tosh there. However, I'm not entirely sure that she knows about the Doctor. Probably just 'some guy' (from UNIT) who happened to know about the pig. I don't think too many people can just barge into that place. xD Yes but I think that during this time she was apart of Torchwood and her being as smart as she is researched Torchwood and how it was founded to make me think that she knew about the Doctor before she met him. Although she wouldn't recognize him now because he has regenerated since the last time she has seen him. Quote: What? Oh, her. Yeah. And then he was devastated when she left. I think he liked her in the first place because she didn't quite fit in, like him. Or something. Oh yeah, I felt horrible when she left him. =[ Quote: He's a bit of a romantic at heart (deep, deep down xD) but that was when he started to change.. and it led up to him telling Tosh (Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) that he's just gonna wait for the right person. (aka: beginning of subtle hints that he likes Tosh to set up another subplot) Yeah, or you forgot a huge example. In Adam the tides changed and Owen was the one who was hitting on Tosh. One of my favorite episodes of the second series btw :p Quote: He didn't know the Doctor was in Torchwood. He just knew that these people were searching for him and would do whatever it took, and Jack wasn't going to give up information like that if he could help it. (sort of like how Jackie is protective of the Doctor's whereabouts) Jack only just finds out about the Doctor being involved with Torchwood when he meets up in Season Three of DW and explains that "I changed Torchwood in your honor". Yeah and unlike Martha's mother is :p. Seeing how easily she gave away information to the Master. Sad since I figured it was the Master while watching the Lazarus Experiment. I had one of those moments when I figured it out. Quote: But it's Ianto's Pterodactyl. Which is pretty cool. ^^ I'm really glad that Ianto has a bigger role than in the first series where he was just the coffee boy. Quote: You've got a point there. Jack clearly has a past with John and the Time Agents (timeline 1), and with the old Torchwood (timeline 2). Either way, there have been memories popping up that Jack clearly didn't want to see again, thanks to John. This also could be a sort of vendetta that John might be imposing on Jack because of Jack's actions during his first life. I really don't see RTD keeping Grey on the show for very long and at least if he does not kill him off Grey might just say "Thanks. I missed you Jack" and leave. Quote: He'd probably tell Ianto. xD They've been through so much already, so why not? rolleyes Yeah, but don't forget his feelings for Gwen are stronger than his for Ianto. Quote: It was kinda cute in the first few stories of Season One, but after that it was more like product placement. DX At least the references between Jack and Martha were worth it, but they weren't as meaningful because of all the lines that Jack keeps throwing around. >_> I don't mind if they mention the Doctor, but I wish they would just say "The Doctor" like how they did in the series one finale of SJA. I was happy to hear just in plain words "THE DOCTOR" instead of jumping around so to have a little club where if you don't know Who we are talking about then you're not in the club, but I agree with you fully. The references between Jack and Martha were appropriate because anyone would have a similar conversation if you were a member of the End of the World Survivors Club. XD
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