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 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:46 am
See the thread starting here: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?p=28278622#28278622 (goes on for a page and a half.) My posts: http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?p=28278622#28278622 Firstly, I have a problem with the names of the sides. "Pro-Life" and "Pro-Choice" are too propagandized for my liking. I prefer "Pro-Abortion" and "Anti-Abortion." I'm Anti-Abortion, but I have developed (or been given by Satan?) a rather confusing thought/perspective on it, which muddies things a bit: God knows everything. Even with our "free will", He knows what we're going to choose to do. Why would He give souls to children He knew would never have a chance to live? I can't see that He would. While this doesn't excuse my behavior or choice in the matter, it does seem to excuse me from complaining or campaigning against the matter. I was going to quote all my posts from that thread, but decided if you really want to see them, go there and read. (Me? Lazy? Never...)
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:08 pm
"Pro-abortion"? No one in the world is "pro-abortion".
We're "pro-keeping abortion legal".
And to save pages of idiotic bickering, the abortion issue always boils down to a simple question. Should a fetus be considered a person? If so, then killing it is equal with killing a fellow born human being. If not, it's nothing more than killing a liver or an rat.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:59 pm
Sinner And to save pages of idiotic bickering, the abortion issue always boils down to a simple question. Should a fetus be considered a person? If so, then killing it is equal with killing a fellow born human being. If not, it's nothing more than killing a liver or an rat. Before I can answer that, I must answer the question, "Does God give souls to children who He knows will never have a chance to live?" I suppose the way I phrased that -- 'children' -- means I do often consider fetuses to be children. But getting back to my question: Does God give souls to children who He knows will never have a chance to live? If so, why? I'm thinkin' maybe God only gives souls to children He knows will have a chance to live. (Of course, that doesn't let ME off the hook, if I ever face that decision...)
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:58 pm
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:45 pm
NewAgeLink Sinner And to save pages of idiotic bickering, the abortion issue always boils down to a simple question. Should a fetus be considered a person? If so, then killing it is equal with killing a fellow born human being. If not, it's nothing more than killing a liver or an rat. Before I can answer that, I must answer the question, "Does God give souls to children who He knows will never have a chance to live?" I suppose the way I phrased that -- 'children' -- means I do often consider fetuses to be children. But getting back to my question: Does God give souls to children who He knows will never have a chance to live? If so, why? I'm thinkin' maybe God only gives souls to children He knows will have a chance to live. (Of course, that doesn't let ME off the hook, if I ever face that decision...) According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. After all, there's no way nonliving things have souls.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:43 am
Sinner According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. No... I'm not saying we get souls when we're born. I'm saying, "What if God only gives us souls at conception if He knows we're going to have a chance to live?"
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:23 am
I think God gives souls to everyone fetus and everyone else inclueded.wether they r going to live is really up to the parent most of the time.I mean if God had no intentions of us having the babies then he likely wouldnt give then to us. I think that abortion is wrong because you are murdering an inocent child keeping them from thr purpose in life and even from ever seeing the light of day. how right can that be to take the life of one so pure?that child has not even had a chance to do nething wrong in its life.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:15 am
Sinner "Pro-abortion"? No one in the world is "pro-abortion". Well, maybe there is. Like, a psychopath who is worried about overpopulation. xp Anyway, I think that there is a bigger issue here which your quandary is addressing: how can people have free will when God is omniscient? -If God is omniscient, God knows what decision you are about to make. -There is only one true outcome to your decision. -If you did not choose that one thing, God's 'knowledge' is false, and God wasn't omniscient to begin with. -If you can only choose one thing, you don't have free will. So then, how is it possible to have more than one possible potential outcome for your decision, while there is only one true outcome (which God knows)?
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:33 am
NewAgeLink Sinner According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. No... I'm not saying we get souls when we're born. I'm saying, "What if God only gives us souls at conception if He knows we're going to have a chance to live?" You don't get it. By saying "have a chance to live", you are saying that the time after conception and before birth (or before being aborted) isn't life. Otherwise, they did have a chance to live. It was just quite brief.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:04 am
yeah, this is kind of interesting...although very confusing! well, ive sat and thought about it and have come to the conclusion that life begins at conception, or so i believe anyway, and yes although God does know what will happen, i think He still gives the 'baby' a soul, as when it is aborted (bless it) it goes up to heaven for eternal life, but it couldn't do so without a soul, could it? well that's my view anyway....pm me anytime...or reply to this, whatever if you wanna chat. 3nodding
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daughter-warrior-princess
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:11 pm
NewAgeLink Sinner According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. No... I'm not saying we get souls when we're born. I'm saying, "What if God only gives us souls at conception if He knows we're going to have a chance to live?" Why would He allow a fruitless conception? I really don't think God would do that. Personally, I think all children that died before the age of accountability goes to be with Him; fetuses included.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:29 pm
Mechanism Sinner "Pro-abortion"? No one in the world is "pro-abortion". Well, maybe there is. Like, a psychopath who is worried about overpopulation. xp Anyway, I think that there is a bigger issue here which your quandary is addressing: how can people have free will when God is omniscient? -If God is omniscient, God knows what decision you are about to make. -There is only one true outcome to your decision. -If you did not choose that one thing, God's 'knowledge' is false, and God wasn't omniscient to begin with. -If you can only choose one thing, you don't have free will. So then, how is it possible to have more than one possible potential outcome for your decision, while there is only one true outcome (which God knows)? That is a question I have wondered all my life. Like, if God knows what will happen, and what we will choose, yet gives us the free will to choose it, then doesn't he know that people are going to hell before they do? And what does he do about it? I know that's not how it goes down, but I just don't understand how it does
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:31 pm
Death T-2 NewAgeLink Sinner According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. No... I'm not saying we get souls when we're born. I'm saying, "What if God only gives us souls at conception if He knows we're going to have a chance to live?" Why would He allow a fruitless conception? I really don't think God would do that. Personally, I think all children that died before the age of accountability goes to be with Him; fetuses included. yeah I think that too
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:42 pm
I believe I posted an abortion thread in this guild a while ago...
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:48 pm
RiebenRyoshi Death T-2 NewAgeLink Sinner According to that premise, fetuses aren't alive (since they haven't yet had a "chance to live") so the entire issue is null anyways. No... I'm not saying we get souls when we're born. I'm saying, "What if God only gives us souls at conception if He knows we're going to have a chance to live?" Why would He allow a fruitless conception? I really don't think God would do that. Personally, I think all children that died before the age of accountability goes to be with Him; fetuses included. yeah I think that too i agree.
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