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 Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:10 am
Well, the next topic should come today (I hope! It'll be my first one)
And no, I didn't really have one in mind sweatdrop but we could do something like 'what if the wiccan rede was different or nonexistant' or something. I dunno. I'm new to all this. stressed
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:17 am
Hmm... ideas... the only thing that comes to mind is maybe doing something like the importance of friends or family.
Or maybe the importance of having pets. I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it's just a thought. Although, that could also kind of go with the thanks-giving thing I think.
That's all I can think of right now... sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:06 pm
Sure. Friends and Family, huh? I can work with that theme. Thoughtful Topic of 11-11-07
Blood is thicker than water. Obviously this refers to blood family being the ultimate bond. Is this really the case?
If so, are there exceptions to this rule?
How do we determine them?Only guidelines this time are that you can't get *too* far off topic. Reflective Topic of 11-11-07
We all have friends whom we care about deeply. What do we look for in people as potential friends?
How do friendships develop?
How do they evolve (such as into a romantic or familial way)?
Can the bonds of friendship eclipse those of family?I'm looking for cross-references between these two, and detailed, well-thought out answers. Kudos (bars?) to all of you who also expand on the topic, perhaps extending this to earlier discussions...? Love and Vale, and let the meditation...begin! ~Leavaros Dapple
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:33 pm
Thoughtful Topic of 11-11-07
Is this really the case? I don't believe it is in every case. It certainly can be the ultimate bond, but it can also be the weakest bond with some people. I know of several people who don't even think about their family members, let alone have any amount of bond with them.
How do we determine them? I think that can vary from person to person. To me it would be to actually feel comfortable with your family and being able to talk to them. Not having to hide anything from them. I think it goes the same way with having a bond with a friend.
Reflective Topic of 11-11-07
What do we look for in people as potential friends? That's a rather long list, as I'm a very picky person. The two main things for me are that they have to be able to accept me completely for who I am and they have to be a good person (at least in my eyes). Other things... they can't be self-absorbed, selfish, etc. They should be kind, considerate, somewhat intelligent, fun to be around. You get the idea.
How do friendships develop? Friendships take years to develop for me. You can never truly know a person, because we're constantly changing. So, I may like a person one month and than not be able to stand being around them the next. But I think they can only develop (in a healthy way) with trust, communication, and honesty. Those are the 3 key things with me.
How do they evolve (such as into a romantic or familial way)? I think that you start to see people differently once you've gotten to know them. So, before you knew them you might not have been attracted to them at all, but then you get to know them and you start to see their inner beauty and you start to become more and more attracted to them. I think that's how they evolve romatically... that and your feelings for them, even as just a friend, grow stronger and your bond grows stronger. And in a familial way, it's you start to become more comfortable around with them, more open with them and your bonds grow stronger.
Can the bonds of friendship eclipse those of family? Most definelty, or at least in a sense. My mom has always told me that you don't have to be blood to be family. And I completely agree with that. And the bonds of friendship can certainly be greater when you don't have much of a bond with your family to begin with.
I'm looking for cross-references between these two, and detailed, well-thought out answers. Kudos (bars?) to all of you who also expand on the topic, perhaps extending this to earlier discussions...?
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:25 pm
Very good, Maggie! Just one thing...you listed what you wanted (for instance, in a person as a friend) but not why you wanted those qualities, why you favored those above others. You were absolutely point on with the "Evolve" question. You answered thoughtfully, directly, flowingly...it seems as though you have had extended thought on this one previously, yes? ~~~~~ As for me, I know that Love changes things. People I once crushed on have become best friends, and good friends have started dating. People I never, ever thought I would get along with are now close to my heart, and I find myself second guessing myself for them all the time. I think that's really what Love does, you know? It makes things grow naturally, in a weird, wonderful way--the way it was truly meant to be. And what is Love if not rooted in respect and admiration? What are friendships, families, lovers if not Love personified? At least, so say I. On the topic...I'll leave this link here. Maybe it will prove useful. Love and Vale, -LD
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:40 pm
I guess I hadn't thought about explaining why... sweatdrop
Um, well, like I said, I'm really picky with people. The two main things I mentioned, being able to accept me completely for who I am and having to be a good person. Well, they have to be able to accept me, because, honestly, what kind of friend is it when they can't accept that your're Pagan, that you love animals, you love whatever hobby it is that you have, etc. I don't see how someone can truly be a friend when they can't accept someone for everything that they are. And part of it is from personal experience. I lost a lot of friends when I became Athiest. And then I lost even more friends when I converted to Paganism. Those people weren't true friends. And it hurt a lot... especially since some of those people had been my best friends for years. I don't need people like that in my life, nor do I want them. They don't have to necessarily like it or agree with it, but it's who I am, and I don't want people trying to change me.
They have to be a good person because, well, I think it's pretty self-explanitory. You know, I wouldn't want a friend who has killed someone on purpose, or someone who is cruel to animals or other people. I just don't get along with those sorts.
They can't be self-absorbed, because, honestly, what fun is that? Someone who only cares about themselves and what they want. Someone who only likes to talk about themselves and their life all the freaking time. I can't stand people like that.
They have to be somewhat intelligent (and I don't necessarily mean book smart, but instead, they should have common sense at least) because I like to have actual conversations with people on stuff that actually matters. Most people seem to only like to gossip and talk about what Susy or Bob did. You know? Such a waste of breath and energy.
I think you get the idea...
I agree with everything you said in your last post.
Edit: I was reading through that thread that you posted the link for. And I hope this doesn't offend you (which I personally don't see why it would), but just reading what you write sometimes, I can tell that you're a writer. Like I honestly felt like I was reading an actual book (or part of it. Although, I know that what you wrote isn't from a book, unless you are writing one about your life), and a good one at that. Like if you were to actually write a book, about anything really, I would definetly read it. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:01 pm
Reflective Topic: We all have friends whom we care about deeply.
I really don't go out and look for friends. The relationships just develop. That usually happens over a short period of time through constant exposure to the person, who shares something in common with you. The connection doesn't really have to be anything obvious. Perhaps you share go to the same school and have classes together, or you live close to one another and see each other all the time. Proximity is one of the things that influences friendship. One is more likely to be friends with someone who lives close by then farther away.
Friendships can evolve into more. If one is heterosexual and has a friend of the same sex (and sometimes the opposite one. It depends again on the individual’s preferences) then the friendship could be something akin to being siblings. This kind of friendship can last a person a long time. Romantic relationships seem to be more complicated. Sexual preference plays another role here. If the two people find they have much in common, romantic feelings can develop. Despite the old saying “opposites attract”, it is really that which we have in common that brings and keeps two people together. That is really all I can say on that.
The bonds of friendship can sometimes eclipse those of family. The situation is the deciding factor, I believe. If the situation calls for a choice between friends or family, there is no real way to predict what the individual will chose. It depends on how strong the bond is between the two types, friend or family.
Someone who used to be close to me once said that the only real friends you have are the ones you are willing to die for. Won’t many people die for their family? I would, and there are a few people that I consider friend enough that I would willingly die for them without a second thought.
It is these few (to be honest I can only think of one right now) that are part of my family in my mind. Even though we be not blood related.
Sorry if I ran off topic, this is my first time here.
sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Thoughtful Topic of 11-11-07
Blood is thicker than water.
Obviously this refers to blood family being the ultimate bond.
I think it can be at times, and I often yearn for it to be true with me- but its not. My mother has almost disowed me for being Wiccan/Pagan- I say almost because we do exchange letters 2-3 times a year through snail mail, but no email/phone or any other kind of communication is permitted by her. Part of it is my fault; I lost my temper more than once when she would try to convert me. I wasn't as calm & mature as I wish I'd been, but she is the one who closed the doors. We've never been close, but for my whole childhood we were the only constants in each others lives. Her husbands/boyfriends would change, we moved states/cities about every 3-4 years. You would think a bond would form, but no, it never did. So its just a sad situation- part of me wishes I'd never let her know the true me, but pretending just isn't something I can do long-term.
I don't have many friends, I'm a pretty cautious person when it comes to letting people get to know me. But the few I do have stuck with me through everything- being an atheist, pagan, bisexual etc. I'm very fortunate to have a husband that adores me, and those few friends. To me, my husbands family has become my family and my friends are my family.
My grandparents are really the only blood family that I see/talk to regularly. We have a very strong blood bond- but I'd still say it was equal to the bond I have with my husband and friends.
I think alot of factors have to do with this bond- personality traits, how you/they are raised and how much time you spend with your family to name a few.
Reflective Topic of 11-11-07
Some people have tons of friends; others just a few. I think alot depends on whether you are introveted or extroverted. Still, even an extroverted person may have 100 friends, but only have 1-2 they tell all of their secrets.
I don't make friends very easily. I'm generally a nice person, but I have issues with closeness. It takes me a long time to allow someone to be close to me. My husband is the opposite; he makes friends at the drop of a hat!He is one of the friendliest people I know, but he also only has 3 really close friends.
My husband and I started out as friends. Actually we met online through a fluke, talked for about a year online- then lost contact for a few month. When we next talked, he'd just gotten his divorce and my relationship with my live-in ex had ended. After a month or two we started talking on the phone and then 6 months later he moved in with me. 2.5yrs later we got married and now we've been married over a year.
I had a friend who was down on his luck, lost his job & been evicted move in with me for a short time. He moved out on his own again 6 months later and he's become like a brother to me. If those 6 months hadn't happened, I don't know if I would have opened up to him as much as I did.
My relationship with my husband eclipses those of everyone, family & friends. Then I'd have to say 2 of my friends and my grandparents are about equal. But thats my situation- so while bonds of friendship can eclipse those of family- its not always true.
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:17 pm
Thoughtful Topic of 11-11-07
Blood is thicker than water. Is this really the case? Not always. It used to be most of the time, in the olden days, but now....It depends on the household. It's sad, but I don't really think blood is thicker than water; too many people would sell their families out for drugs or something for themselves. Also, there are more and more abusive and neglectant families and the victims of these households usually hold so much bitterness and anger inside them that they outright hate their families. However, I will concede that many people will die for their families and choose them over anything. Also, it depends on the family member; for instance, I hate my father but love my Mom. But my hate for my father is tinged with love, still, (which I hate myself for). But I'd sell him out, even though I love him. So, even though it's a strong bond, I don't think it's strong enough. If so, are there exceptions to this rule? Well, there are exceptions to every rule. But as I wrote above, I don't think blood is thicker than water and there is more exceptions to that rule than most would think. (Sorry, there's not really much to say here since it's and 'if so' question that I didn't agree with.) How do we determine them?Personally, I think it's just a feeling. For instance, to know if you're an exception, think if you look forward to or dread coming home. Can you tell your parents or siblings anything and everything? Do you know that they'll love you even if you told them you were pregnant at age 14, lesbian, gay, have a different religion, or that you're the father of your girlfriend's child? It's about being about able to be yourself around your family without hiding who you are. Reflective Topic of 11-11-07
We all have friends whom we care about deeply. What do we look for in people as potential friends?Other people normally seem to pick it out on popularity or style. However, I have alot of practice here, because I move around alot and when I go to a new school, I want to pick my friends early. I normally look for lonliness. I'll see someone my age sitting alone, reading a book and/or glancing wistfully at a group of friends who are having a good time. I will sit right next to them, discussing my favorite book and ask them questions about themselves. Normally, my openness and confidence will attract them. After we develop a semi-friendship, I observe them and think about their good and bad traits - I look for trustworthyness, because I want a friend who wouldn't tell the world when they notice a suspicious scar. I look for honesty - I don't want a friend that would lie to me when I wouldn't lie to them. I look for intelligence - I want to be able to use the words I know without them staring blankly at me, then starting a conversation about boys to cover up their ignorance. Preferably, I want someone who can have a good time and dance even when no one else is dancing but everyone's watching. However, most my friends start out shy...but before I move away, they're as outgoing as me! How do friendships develop?Friendship develops many different ways - they can take years or a matter of seconds. Sometimes, you're enemies first but get to know each other and become soul sisters/brothers! Perhaps you're drawing or playing guitar or doing something that you do well, and someone stops you to talk about it, because they do the same things! Maybe you meet them at a writing club or a chess club or choir and they like doing those things as much as you do! Or maybe you get stuck in detention together and begin talking. Like I said, many different ways and the ways vary from person to person. How do they evolve (such as into a romantic or familial way)? Well, perhaps you spend alot of time around your friend. You see them everyday, have the same interests (but are different enough that you don't get bored around each other) and nothing you two do together ever seems old. The fight you get in never last long. Sooner or later, you'll either become attracted to each other or become tight-nit friends with a bond stronger than family. It's inevitable. Also, sexuality is a factor. If you've been friends with someone and you're bisexual/homosexual and you find out they are, too, you may develop a more romantic one than you would have if you weren't your sexuality. Can the bonds of friendship eclipse those of family?Yes. Normally, friendship can be stronger because of the way friends talk to each other is different than how people talk to their family. Sometimes, we refrain from telling our family secrets that we have no hesitation telling our friends. Your friend won't critize you as much as your family tends to do (although they shouldn't be agreeing in EVERYTHING you do; gotta have some opinions of their own!). I would die for alot of my friends but for most of my family (if you don't know me, don't judge me because of it, because you don't know what my family's like....) I wouldn't. Proof right there that it can eclipse. I hope it wasn't too short or off topic or did it wrong or anything. It's my first time, so I'm not used to it. I spent hours thinking about it in school and everything!
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:46 pm
Oh, I'm so happy! So many posts! Okay, to begin with....
Maggie, that was a flawless elaboration. You explained all of your points perfectly, supporting your insights very well. And yes, I am a writer, I'm not offended (flattered, perhaps), and I'd be happy to direct you to my story if you're interested....
Rebo, you did very well for your first time here (I especially liked how you strayed some from the original questions, and added your own insights), however, I don't agree that "the only real friends you have are the ones you are willing to die for". In fact, I think it's the opposite--the only real friends are the ones who you'll live for, even if it's easier to die, to support (and to allow them to support you) when it would be easier to stand alone. True friendship is sometimes the sharing of pain and sorrow--and both parties involved will be stronger for the shared feelings.
Kareena, I loved your personal anecdotes. They were heart-felt and warm--I felt touched by them. However, you failed to elaborate on why you chose the friends that you have in detail. I would like for you to dig deeper than just the surface, and more, to hear what you look for in a person as a friend. Of course, ultimately, the idea behind meditation is to reach a decision about things. Perhaps after contemplation, you will decide to be more open with your feelings with others, strive a little harder to begin friendships and deepen those friendships you already have.
Vamp, that was very...detailed. I refuse to harp on you for giving so much (the more the better, sometimes) but in later meditations, you might consider melting off the excess verbiage and revealing the maxims I know you have in your heart, and what's more, actively in your mind. Another end result of this style of meditation is ending relaxed and direct, thought matching speech, having all the meaning of many words in a few.
Love and Vale,
~Leavaros Dapple
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:43 pm
Leavaros Maggie, that was a flawless elaboration. You explained all of your points perfectly, supporting your insights very well. And yes, I am a writer, I'm not offended (flattered, perhaps), and I'd be happy to direct you to my story if you're interested.... If you could be so kind... I'm very interested in reading it. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:46 am
Leavaros Rebo, you did very well for your first time here (I especially liked how you strayed some from the original questions, and added your own insights), however, I don't agree that "the only real friends you have are the ones you are willing to die for". In fact, I think it's the opposite--the only real friends are the ones who you'll live for, even if it's easier to die, to support (and to allow them to support you) when it would be easier to stand alone. True friendship is sometimes the sharing of pain and sorrow--and both parties involved will be stronger for the shared feelings. Thank you. Well, when I first read your thoughts toward the saying I posted I was ready to defend what I had said. Then I sat down and thought about it and realized you're right in a sense; however, I wonder if I should have worded it how I wanted to originally. "The only true friends you have are the ones that you are willing to jump in front of a bullet for." What I had meant by the statement was when the situation came down to a life or death choice. I know that many people don't have to make these kinds of choices in day to day life, but if it came right down to it, and someone had to die, who would it be? But like I said, I think you are right. It has never been something I tried to think to hard about.
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:58 am
Be it fortunate on unfortunate, Rebo, this style of meditation is bereft of the luxury of "not thinking hard" on things, especially those that matter most. But I'm glad we are resolved. Oh, and Maggie, here's the link. It's unfinished and seriously lacking in it's female lead (as the comments keep pointing out), but I fancy it all the same. Love and Vale, -LD
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:33 pm
Are we getting a new topic?
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:13 pm
Hehe, yeah...sorry.... I just got done ranting about honesty in the "Appropriate Behavior for a Witch" thread. Yikes, but that pissed me off.
But, yes, you will. I plan to go on with the plans set forth last week about Thankfulness.
-LD
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