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Nespin Fernagon Vice Captain
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 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:57 am
I'm with you here, Val. While I see no mileage in being deliberately antagonistic, I don't see why "beliefs" are the holy grail that must not be disturbed, especially where they seem to be harmful to someone.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:49 am
I will respect anyone's beliefs if they respect mine.
If not, well, my little stew-pot of beliefs gets dumped all over the offending party's head.
Not really... But it makes me mad when people try to force things on me.
"You should believe THIS instead of just floundering."
"You should read this whole thing, no, seriously, it's true."
"Well, we believe that you should be a slave, so get at it!"
I'm not preaching the Pallitax Tome of Don't Give A F'ck at you, am I?! D:<
-flail-
That being said, if something is harmful to another human being... It should be dissected to see why they do it. And if it's bull, well, people have the right to decide what they believe. If they want to do something harmful to themselves, let them.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:53 am
I agree with Maris: Quote: I will respect anyone's beliefs if they respect mine. Nothing pisses me off more than someone bashing my beliefs and thinking I'm going to sit there in take it and vice versa.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:57 am
Vajapocalypse I agree with Maris: Quote: I will respect anyone's beliefs if they respect mine. Nothing pisses me off more than someone bashing my beliefs and thinking I'm going to sit there in take it and vice versa. YES! Thank you. heart
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:06 am
I more of respect the core values that the person is using to make their opinions on....
It is the beliefs without any really deep values that I don't respect at all.
Like nazis, what special, understandable value is upheld by their beliefs? I cannot think of one.
While, people might have a differing opinion on abortion or whatever, at least I know what makes them disagree is a value worth cherishing in a human being, no matter what side they take.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:09 am
xd I'm a christian and I don't believe Homosexuals are evil.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:10 am
EmperorZensekai While, people might have a differing opinion on abortion or whatever, at least I know what makes them disagree is a value worth cherishing in a human being, no matter what side they take. Not always. Many people who are against abortion base that off of what their parents say and not from their own understanding. Same with politics and religion. Can you really say they have a good worthwhile reason when their reasoning is just because mommy said so?
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:12 am
What are 'beliefs'?
I don't tolerate any values that conflict with mine. When our dear president Barack Obama said that we cannot impose our values on Middle Eastern countries with different ones, I was ready to tear my hair out. I mean, I believe in equality, truth, freedom, et cetera, for everyone. If Afghanistan's, or Iran's, or Pakistan's, or China's, or North Korea's governments don't believe these inalienable rights are any good for them, well then they don't deserve to talk about anything to the US. I'm really tired of America not pushing her agenda.
On the other hands, with abstract, philosophical stances such as God and whether we really exist, I really couldn't give a damn.
Wait, what does 'respect' mean in this context? sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:17 am
SlamuelBTP What are 'beliefs'?
I don't tolerate any values that conflict with mine. When our dear president Barack Obama said that we cannot impose our values on Middle Eastern countries with different ones, I was ready to tear my hair out. I mean, I believe in equality, truth, freedom, et cetera, for everyone. If Afghanistan's, or Iran's, or Pakistan's, or China's, or North Korea's governments don't believe these inalienable rights are any good for them, well then they don't deserve to talk about anything to the US. I'm really tired of America not pushing her agenda.
On the other hands, with abstract, philosophical stances such as God and whether we really exist, I couldn't really give a damn. There is a certain way you have to go about changing the core ideas and values of a culure and religion. I think we need to impose our ideas further but at the same time part of our ideas and beliefs is freedom to believe what you want and put that into practice as long as it doesn't violate those person's right and in those countries it doesn't. Do I agree with it? No. If I had some middle eastern try and put me in my place because I'm a woman would I gouge out his eyes? Yes, if my words didn't make a difference first.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:19 am
I hear what you're saying. But while I may not agree with certain ideals out there, I still believe it's possible to respect individuals who hold those ideals. It depends on the individual and their actions really...
And without going into whether or not, as a Christian, I believe homosexuality is moral, I will say that ANY Christian who decides one type of person is evil and another type of person is 'good' based on their actions, should probably re-read the bible because they're clearly missing the point.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:20 am
Vajapocalypse EmperorZensekai While, people might have a differing opinion on abortion or whatever, at least I know what makes them disagree is a value worth cherishing in a human being, no matter what side they take. Not always. Many people who are against abortion base that off of what their parents say and not from their own understanding. Same with politics and religion. Can you really say they have a good worthwhile reason when their reasoning is just because mommy said so? You would have to assume that person has no personality and cannot reason at all for themselves, believing what you are taught is still a choice you make based on your own reasons. It still deserves respect until proven otherwise. Otherwise I could say in any debate "oh it's only what your parents told you" and dismiss anything.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:25 am
EmperorZensekai Vajapocalypse EmperorZensekai While, people might have a differing opinion on abortion or whatever, at least I know what makes them disagree is a value worth cherishing in a human being, no matter what side they take. Not always. Many people who are against abortion base that off of what their parents say and not from their own understanding. Same with politics and religion. Can you really say they have a good worthwhile reason when their reasoning is just because mommy said so? You would have to assume that person has no personality and cannot reason at all for themselves, believing what you are taught is still a choice you make based on your own reasons. It still deserves respect until proven otherwise. Otherwise I could say in any debate "oh it's only what your parents told you" and dismiss anything. Then why are Nazi's not allowed to be respected based on their core beliefs? Many of their ideas and opinions are just a warped interpretation of he bible and superiors.
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:28 am
Vajapocalypse What are beliefs you ask?There is a certain way you have to go about changing the core ideas and values of a culure and religion. I think we need to impose our ideas further but at the same time part of our ideas and beliefs is freedom to believe what you want and put that into practice as long as it doesn't violate those person's right and in those countries it doesn't. Do I agree with it? No. If I had some middle eastern try and put me in my place because I'm a woman would I gouge out his eyes? Yes, if my words didn't make a difference first. It was a rhetorical question. I answered it later, with my split between the two paragraphs; beliefs could either be referring to practical ideologies, which I do not tolerate, or abstract philosophies, which I don't care about.
Of course, we should impose our ideas without forcing anybody to convert our religion. Isn't that the whole point of America? "Do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't limit anybody else's ability to do whatever the hell they want." That's the ideology we should be working towards. In practice, things will need to get in the way, but as long as we keep trying to go in that direction, I think we'll be best off.
@Angela:
Really? Because I thought the point of the Bible was, "Do what God says or die."
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:32 am
SlamuelBTP Vajapocalypse What are beliefs you ask?There is a certain way you have to go about changing the core ideas and values of a culure and religion. I think we need to impose our ideas further but at the same time part of our ideas and beliefs is freedom to believe what you want and put that into practice as long as it doesn't violate those person's right and in those countries it doesn't. Do I agree with it? No. If I had some middle eastern try and put me in my place because I'm a woman would I gouge out his eyes? Yes, if my words didn't make a difference first. It was a rhetorical question. I answered it later, with my split between the two paragraphs; beliefs could either be referring to practical ideologies, which I do not tolerate, or abstract philosophies, which I don't care about.
Of course, we should impose our ideas without forcing anybody to convert our religion. Isn't that the whole point of America? "Do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't limit anybody else's ability to do whatever the hell they want." That's the ideology we should be working towards. In practice, things will need to get in the way, but as long as we keep trying to go in that direction, I think we'll be best off.
@Angela:
Really? Because I thought the point of the Bible was, "Do what God says or die."
I know I was making a joke. We are going in that direction, it just takes a while. Women in middle east have far more rights today then they did 10 years ago, but it's an up hill battle funded by religious extremist. I always thought the point of the bible on the worship front was "Follow me or burn in hell"
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Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:33 am
because their beliefs are valuing hatred, that is not on the same level as valuing your parent's opinions.
Perhaps their parents taught them to be racist and elitist, but that is not what I disrespect in the Nazis. It is the fundamental hatred beneath it all.
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