I knew you ******** us on the wings... UPDATED

[Empress Boa]

Tonikei

I don't even want the wings. That's not the point. emotion_facepalm Why do you keep telling people that? Are you ignoring what other people are trying to say since making a petition is some God's given answer to Gaia? I don't know how great of a gold sink this even is. I kind of think it sort of makes things worse as the people who hoarded billions are now spreading the wealth. The gold was concentrated within a small group of people and now it's going to others. It's aiding, but I don't think it's a very effective gold sink unless it's taking gold from everyone at a steady rate. Kind of like when people suggest that more components should be placed in Bifrost for a high amount. That would be an effective gold sink. It's taking away gold faster instead of spreading the gold.

but isnt that the topic here, people are talking about the wings and how awful alchemy is, so im trying to do my best to respond in a different light. and that's arguable, there is alot of gold sink in alchemy as well. why dont you start alchemy and youll see that for yourself. the only way to prvent this is if u also work hard make caches, that way you can recycle the gold you make into crafting alchemy items as well. really depends on how people are doing it.

[GeryKo]

Tonikei

Empress Boa

then start a petition for new wings biggrin imo they can make even better ones, more spread out instead of wings going abit diagonal. theres many more ways to make alternative. biggrin alchemy is made so theres use for trash, zomg loots, and fishes that have accumulated for a long time. what better way to get people motivated to do alchemy than rare items that everyone angtsy about. i think its genius! it also helps the really rich people in gaia have a challenge, and gold sink if theyre willing to even try crafting the wings items. lol!

I don't even want the wings. That's not the point. emotion_facepalm Why do you keep telling people that? Are you ignoring what other people are trying to say since making a petition is some God's given answer to Gaia? I don't know how great of a gold sink this even is. I kind of think it sort of makes things worse as the people who hoarded billions are now spreading the wealth. The gold was concentrated within a small group of people and now it's going to others. It's aiding, but I don't think it's a very effective gold sink unless it's taking gold from everyone at a steady rate. Kind of like when people suggest that more components should be placed in Bifrost for a high amount. That would be an effective gold sink. It's taking away gold faster instead of spreading the gold.

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

[Tonikei]

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

[Razumi Yazura]

Empress Boa

and thats what you clearly need to understand. that gaia is meaning to 'move forward' make changes in alchemy. and you said *Anyway, while I am a person who also benefits from creating many Philosopher's cache, I feel that isn't the point here. Things still need to be fixed and adjusted to make wings possible. Yes, you're getting "rich" off Alchemy and so are others, but that doesn't mean people will be able to make wings off such a mindset. Earning gold from people buying these caches are not remedying the shortage in component supply. Not when components are destroyed faster than the amount that are discovered in a day or a week.*

thats what theyre investigating to do, what if they come up for diff alternatives. theres at least 4 alternatives for making philosopher cache, whos to say they wont do that for any alchemy items? the best thing people can do now is to go suggest these things in ATA for alchemy and gaia will probably try to come up with better changes. if they ever lowered the amt of trash needed to create caches, then more components will be made

Have I said once that they're not progressing at all? No. I haven't. I'm just giving another point of view.

I agree with you on that part, but I still feel that it was uncalled for to call someone a hypocrite for simply giving different input. Or at least, perhaps we even see things in a similar light, but at a different angle. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with petitions and I will continue to support the ones I have been supporting. Just that this isn't a solution to the current topic. Deal?

[GeryKo]

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

[Empress Boa]

Razumi Yazura

Have I said once that they're not progressing at all? No. I haven't. I'm just giving another point of view.

I agree with you on that part, but I still feel that it was uncalled for to call someone a hypocrite for simply giving different input. Or at least, perhaps we even see things in a similar light, but at a different angle. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with petitions and I will continue to support the ones I have been supporting. Just that this isn't a solution to the current topic. Deal?

im sorry for calling you hypocrite. but i just wish people who do get involved in alchemy and making money, can support gaia in a way to thank them. because clearly it is helping alot of people too but no one tends to voice it out or recognize it. I really believe its the easiest way to make gold right now. as much as i wish the wings werent that rare, and i could have it easily, i cant change the fact that they are rare. so i will wait for alternatives or just try to concentrate on other quest items. i dont wanna worry about wings, theres other wings i could use right now. Im just thankful i got gold through alchemy to buy other items i want blaugh

[Flying Dicks]

GeryKo

Tonikei

Empress Boa

then start a petition for new wings biggrin imo they can make even better ones, more spread out instead of wings going abit diagonal. theres many more ways to make alternative. biggrin alchemy is made so theres use for trash, zomg loots, and fishes that have accumulated for a long time. what better way to get people motivated to do alchemy than rare items that everyone angtsy about. i think its genius! it also helps the really rich people in gaia have a challenge, and gold sink if theyre willing to even try crafting the wings items. lol!

I don't even want the wings. That's not the point. emotion_facepalm Why do you keep telling people that? Are you ignoring what other people are trying to say since making a petition is some God's given answer to Gaia? I don't know how great of a gold sink this even is. I kind of think it sort of makes things worse as the people who hoarded billions are now spreading the wealth. The gold was concentrated within a small group of people and now it's going to others. It's aiding, but I don't think it's a very effective gold sink unless it's taking gold from everyone at a steady rate. Kind of like when people suggest that more components should be placed in Bifrost for a high amount. That would be an effective gold sink. It's taking away gold faster instead of spreading the gold.

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Is this like ants or something? You see one, and that guarantees 20 more are nearby?

Anyways...
I don't care about gold getting spread around. HOWEVER that is not entirely the case. The rich Gaians mostly make their own cases and caches.
My main problem is that this is so inaccessible... I mean hell they admit its for the upper 3% of the site. And backwings were promised for years... this is how they choose to release them? In this broken scam of a feature?

Keiko rin tried SIXTEEN TIMES to craft her kitten star. That is 16 MILLION gold just in ATTEMPTS ALONE. In the end she had to go to staff to get the item manually granted to her. THESE ARE THE ODDS WE FACE IN ALCHEMY.

These are the odds we face for the wings. The wings we waited years for. The wings the artists danced around, like with hermes moon, refusing to give us anything that might be similar to backwings. These are the wings that everyone is supposed to have a chance at.

Everyone does NOT have a chance at these. I've been on Gaia since I was 13 but I've grown up now. I'm 21. I don't have time, to sit here and play on Gaia all day, and I don't have the money to buy my riches.
There are tons of other people in my situation.

Now, I am supportive of the people who're currently ATTEMPTING to make backwings, but doesn't this seem a tiny bit backwards to you? That they'd make a system that only a few people in a very specific situation could use?

This feature is so ******** that most people cannot even attempt to use it...
It's broken. It needs fixing.
At the end of the day... whether I personally have the wings, is not my main concern. I'd never use them anyways. But, people should be able to try. People should be able to participate. Right now, they can't.

[Tonikei]

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

I don't think it's a very well "spread" gold sink. It's a different kind. It can send one person off to oblivion, but it doesn't totally affect people at a wide scale. It depends. I see it more as a leech that drains off a person who wasn't totally sharing with others to begin with until BAM. They're flooding the gates to other people.

I may just be pissing off a theorized point of view, though.

[Chahklet]

Empress Boa

Razumi Yazura

Have I said once that they're not progressing at all? No. I haven't. I'm just giving another point of view.
I agree with you on that part, but I still feel that it was uncalled for to call someone a hypocrite for simply giving different input. Or at least, perhaps we even see things in a similar light, but at a different angle. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with petitions and I will continue to support the ones I have been supporting. Just that this isn't a solution to the current topic. Deal?

im sorry for calling you hypocrite. but i just wish people who do get involved in alchemy and making money, can support gaia in a way to thank them. because clearly it is helping alot of people too but no one tends to voice it out or recognize it. I really believe its the easiest way to make gold right now. as much as i wish the wings werent that rare, and i could have it easily, i cant change the fact that they are rare. so i will wait for alternatives or just try to concentrate on other quest items. i dont wanna worry about wings, theres other wings i could use right now. Im just thankful i got gold through alchemy to buy other items i want blaugh

I'm glad you think about yourself. :/

[Kai Merha]

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

Alchemy is not a gold sink.

Gold sinks remove gold from the economy altogether. The only gold removed from the economy via Alchemy is the fee for crafting. That's it. That's a mere fraction of the amounts of gold that are shifted between users, increasing inflation and causing item rarity by destroying items during the alchemy process.

Alchemy is a HORRIBLE gold sink and you should never use that tact as a defense of it. It fails.

[Kai Merha]

Empress Boa

Razumi Yazura

Have I said once that they're not progressing at all? No. I haven't. I'm just giving another point of view.

I agree with you on that part, but I still feel that it was uncalled for to call someone a hypocrite for simply giving different input. Or at least, perhaps we even see things in a similar light, but at a different angle. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with petitions and I will continue to support the ones I have been supporting. Just that this isn't a solution to the current topic. Deal?

im sorry for calling you hypocrite. but i just wish people who do get involved in alchemy and making money, can support gaia in a way to thank them. because clearly it is helping alot of people too but no one tends to voice it out or recognize it. I really believe its the easiest way to make gold right now. as much as i wish the wings werent that rare, and i could have it easily, i cant change the fact that they are rare. so i will wait for alternatives or just try to concentrate on other quest items. i dont wanna worry about wings, theres other wings i could use right now. Im just thankful i got gold through alchemy to buy other items i want blaugh

Alchemy is unsustainable because it destroys more items than it creates, increases inflation and doesn't remove gold from the system.

Can you make gold off of it as it's set up now? Yes, but all you're doing is contributing to an unhealthy economy overall. Much like the people who originally drafted Alchemy, it's a short-term view that considers what's going on to be healthy and profitable.

Where will your profits be in a year when most of the level 1-3 formulas can't be made because the cash shop items used in them are extinct? They'll be flatlined, and the upper levels of Alchemy will be even more unattainable than they are right now.

Think bigger.

[GeryKo]

Tonikei

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

I don't think it's a very well "spread" gold sink. It's a different kind. It can send one person off to oblivion, but it doesn't totally affect people at a wide scale. It depends. I see it more as a leech that drains off a person who wasn't totally sharing with others to begin with until BAM. They're flooding the gates to other people.

I may just be pissing off a theorized point of view, though.

so again we are going to that you think that rich ppl should keep their gold and have backwings gifted?

it is a gold sink
1-if i can do 120k by selling trash that i collected only for 10min time would i play bootygrab?
no
2 if i can collect so many trash sure someone would be able too
3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right? yes but this time with well hoarded items in thouse rich accounts.
And again noone is forsing you to do anything it is your choice to play alchemy to spend gold and to craft items you can choose to craft or not to craft.
And with every crafted philosoper cache we give back 10k so yes is is expensive it is
but it is a working gold sink it may still need tweeking
but I dont want to see alchemy items become like zomg items
there is that thing that sould be balanced and it is hard when it can be crashed so quickly
iconomy is something that should be looked at every and each side because one thing can do other and again and again it would become like a wave .....

[GeryKo]

Kai Merha

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

Alchemy is not a gold sink.

Gold sinks remove gold from the economy altogether. The only gold removed from the economy via Alchemy is the fee for crafting. That's it. That's a mere fraction of the amounts of gold that are shifted between users, increasing inflation and causing item rarity by destroying items during the alchemy process.

Alchemy is a HORRIBLE gold sink and you should never use that tact as a defense of it. It fails.

like i said ^

[Razumi Yazura]

Empress Boa

im sorry for calling you hypocrite. but i just wish people who do get involved in alchemy and making money, can support gaia in a way to thank them. because clearly it is helping alot of people too but no one tends to voice it out or recognize it. I really believe its the easiest way to make gold right now. as much as i wish the wings werent that rare, and i could have it easily, i cant change the fact that they are rare. so i will wait for alternatives or just try to concentrate on other quest items. i dont wanna worry about wings, theres other wings i could use right now. Im just thankful i got gold through alchemy to buy other items i want blaugh

That's fine. It's all cool now.

Honestly, I agree with you on that. It is very easy to get gold from Alchemy. I've sold candy horns, Case Meows, etc. Beyond the issue with components, I'm really more of the technical sort of guy who sees that the problem lies more in the chance element of the success rate. While it works for lower levels, it's not balanced very well in the level 10 range as there is no way to increase the success at current max level. I've mostly recovered from the Aurora Kitten star horror, but it was still distressing since I helped Keiko get those components only to see 16 fails. It could have been endless if it weren't for Admin action since the crafting rate is unchanging.

While components are a pain and I sympathise with others who are suffering from it, I look forward to seeing how they go about the tapering system suggestion I brought up in the ATA.

I know. This issue isn't totally all on wings. It's more of an issue with Alchemy overall. I do dread the four level 10 wing formulas in the chain, though. lol

[Tonikei]

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

Tonikei

GeryKo

o.o
so your main problem is that now more ppl have good income that they can use to by themself more good items and not play bootygrab for that?

Hell no, brah. I got no issue with it. Just the mention of gold sink makes me want to note that this ain't no effective gold sink at all.

it is a really nice and good gold sink actually but tell me why you dont think it is a gold sink and i will tell you what i think ^^

I don't think it's a very well "spread" gold sink. It's a different kind. It can send one person off to oblivion, but it doesn't totally affect people at a wide scale. It depends. I see it more as a leech that drains off a person who wasn't totally sharing with others to begin with until BAM. They're flooding the gates to other people.

I may just be pissing off a theorized point of view, though.

so again we are going to that you think that rich ppl should keep their gold and have backwings gifted?

it is a gold sink
1-if i can do 120k by selling trash that i collected only for 10min time would i play bootygrab?
no
2 if i can collect so many trash sure someone would be able too
3 giving ppl gold to buy their dream avi`s items is kind of gold sink again because they will spend all their gold for that item make good looking avatarsand again gold will be back to the rich ppl am i right? yes but this time with well hoarded items in thouse rich accounts.
And again noone is forsing you to do anything it is your choice to play alchemy to spend gold and to craft items you can choose to craft or not to craft.
And with every crafted philosoper cache we give back 10k so yes is is expensive it is
but it is a working gold sink it may still need tweeking
but I dont want to see alchemy items become like zomg items
there is that thing that sould be balanced and it is hard when it can be crashed so quickly
iconomy is something that should be looked at every and each side because one thing can do other and again and again it would become like a wave .....

I don't think I ever said that rich people should keep their gold. I'm trying to think more of economy balance here. Guess I just can't translate thoughts to words very well. emotion_8c