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Wouldn't you help zOMG! if you could?

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Invisible Phantom

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zOMG is fun with all the monsters and stuff but its hard to get the rings. you should explain it more carefully like how to upgrade your level and what is the purple orbs for like that cause before i didnt know that until i figured it out by myself. in the begining you should add that you could find more awsome rings and theres cool monsters and different places. (well thats just my opions) burning_eyes

Unbeatable Phantom

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Red Kutai
Kalon Ordona II
Turning back to the money problem, though, I'm currently unmotivated to buy zOMG! cash items, because there's no certainty that my efforts to support zOMG! will actually support zOMG!, because the staff already said that the money goes to a general pool first. If we could be assured that the purchases do correlate somehow, I'm sure that would help.

The problem that we tend to fall into here is the implicit notion that zOMG! deserves 'its share' of Gaia's profit; that if it contributes 1%, then it deserves 1% back. The issue, there, is that if other features are generating much more profit, that 1% is better spent elsewhere; the question isn't whether zOMG! simply makes money, but whether it's worth investing money into.

It doesn't really matter how much money zOMG! makes; what matters is whether by putting money in, will Gaia get an amount of return comparable to Gaia's alternatives? If they can reliably make money 10:1 on MoGa (just for example), it doesn't even matter if they can make a 2:1 profit on zOMG! - they have a limited amount of resources, and they will always aim to invest those resources in the ways that achieve the most return. If Gaia had unlimited resources, I'm confident they'd invest in zOMG! in a heartbeat; they don't, though, so we have to accept that the problem is greater than simply breaking even.

Do we see why the 'let the bad content pay for the good content' system doesn't work, then? If only the bad content (DMS-like content, as discussed previously) makes profits, then only the bad content is worth investing in. If only the bad content is worth investing in, then only the bad content will be produced. If only the bad content is produced, zOMG! becomes a bad game. The fact is, whatever solution we find to this issue is going to define zOMG!'s development - because only the content that adheres to that solution is going to be worth producing. Again, the question is deeper than just, 'how can zOMG! make some money' - it is, more accurately, 'what does zOMG! need to be in order to make it a sound investment'. I love the game, and I want to retain as much of its core design as possible; but I'm quite certain that solving the game's issues is going to necessitate some very fundamental revisions.

Additionally, the 'profit by peripherals' system doesn't really work, either; because it doesn't actually necessitate any investment. The argument that zOMG! makes money through avatar items is all-well-and-good, but it doesn't encourage them to invest in zOMG! - it encourages them to invest in more avatar items. This is the same fundamental issue with the notion of 'donating' to zOMG! - if it doesn't require an investment (and return on that investment in an impressive manner), it's not actually addressing the issue. In the end, I couldn't care less whether zOMG! 'makes money'; what I want, is to see the game invested in. Monetisation is simply a means to that end; it's important for us not to forget what the goal really is.

Mind you, I'm not - even if it sounds like it - simply trying to shoot down every idea. The issue, though, is that there is no easy fix. I've spent a good deal more time considering this problem than I'd be comfortable admitting; I simply don't think we'll be stumbling over the answer any time soon. I agree with you that a unified discussion is probably the best way to produce viable possibilities - I tried it once, even - but I want to be sure we're really addressing the core of the issue. If I seem overly negative, it's only because I so believe in what you're trying to do, and I'd like to see it achieve the best results possible... 3nodding


What should zOMG! be?
I'll tell you.

Free.

That's what zOMG! should be. =)
zOMG! should be for the love, not the money.

The irony is that 'Free' is the best selling point anything can have.
That should work to Gaia's advantage. And it CAN work to Gaia's advantage, like no other game could.

If Value = Quality + Savings, zOMG! is already quite good even as-is.
The main thing to start with is to make sure there are no bugs, and it does look like we're heading in that direction.
I'm fine with zOMG! being worked on slowly. I just don't want Gaia to give up on it.

In a way, monetizing zOMG! is the wrong approach, because like you said, whatever they monetize is what they'll focus on. But that's not what we want. We want what comes when there are no chains of profit. When the devs are free to create what they want, not what they think will sell. Putting Money behind everything is the quickest way to suck the soul out of zOMG!, like all those other games out there that are juuust free enough to net you in.

Frankly, if Gaia had the resources to develop zOMG in the first place, I tend to think they're pretty well off. It doesn't have to be a profit machine to be something worth investing in.

It's the difference between building a condominium and a dream house.
You don't build a dream house for the profit. You build it for the love.

Profit shouldn't be a motivation at all.
And that's what's so great about opening it up to Gaians to help.
Because they ARE doing it for the love. Or would be, if they could.

So yeah, instead of trying to prove to Gaia that zOMG! is marketable, we should be telling them that it's worth keeping up just because it's a 100% Gaia creation, and so much of Gaia loves it. Isn't that reason enough to at least keep it from falling into disrepair?

The most marketable things in life are born when there is no thought given to profit.
People hunger for something genuine, something that its creators believe in.
People know when they're being roped into a market scheme.
And they don't like it.
zOMG! should avoid that.
And what zOMG! has to its advantage that no other game does is: it can.

Benevolent Codger

Kalon Ordona II
In a way, monetizing zOMG! is the wrong approach, because like you said, whatever they monetize is what they'll focus on. But that's not what we want. We want what comes when there are no chains of profit. When the devs are free to create what they want, not what they think will sell. Putting Money behind everything is the quickest way to suck the soul out of zOMG!, like all those other games out there that are juuust free enough to net you in.

I'm afraid you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to get at; I wasn't saying that monetisation is bad for zOMG!, but that - for us - it is simply a means to an end. The point I was making is that monetisation is a tool, and that we should be certain we aren't using it just to use it. If I want to build a house, I'm going to have to hammer some nails; just because hammering nails isn't my end goal doesn't mean it's unjustified. It does, however, mean that I shouldn't be hammering nails unless it contributes to the end goal of a completed house. In the same way that one wouldn't go hammering nails for no reason, we shouldn't be trying to monetise zOMG! without understanding how it advances the goal we're actually trying to achieve by doing it. That is my point.

It seems to me you underestimate the potential value of monetisation in a game - the fact is, if you're producing something that your audience recognises as valuable enough to spend money on, you're probably doing something right. In that regard, monetisation can be a useful method in acertaining what a game wants and needs. As I've said before, zOMG! isn't profitable because it's not offering things that players are willing to pay for - that is, zOMG! isn't profitable because it is failing to offer things of value. Looking at how zOMG! fails to monetise can be useful in determining how zOMG!'s other failings.

Also, the notion that the game should be what the devs want is fallacious, in my opinion; the game should be what it wants to be, and the developers' job is simply to understand what that is and actualise it. If I were to make the game as I 'wanted', it would probably consist primarily of obscure musical references and bad taxonomical puns - unfortunately, that wouldn't make it a better game. Personally, I believe that what zOMG! wants to be is something valuable, and I don't see any reason why one would not be able to monetise something of value; thus, I don't see monetisation and serving the core interests of the game as mutually exclusive goals.
Quote:
So yeah, instead of trying to prove to Gaia that zOMG! is marketable, we should be telling them that it's worth keeping up just because it's a 100% Gaia creation, and so much of Gaia loves it. Isn't that reason enough to at least keep it from falling into disrepair?

In a word? No. If Gaia just wanted to pour its money into a charity, there are plenty of more deserving causes than zOMG!. sweatdrop

What you're missing with your dream home comparison is the fact that one's dream home does have value - that value merely exists in forms other than money. For the person who's creating their dream home, it's a profitable exchange - because what they get back from it is, to them, more valuable. Gaia, however - the company, not its employees - is a business. As an economic construct, it does not have emotions or nostalgia, and thus you can't really expect it to value things in an emotional or nostalgic way. Businesses exist to convert capital into larger amounts of capital - doing so is not 'soul-sucking', but the very reason that a company exists.

Yes, there is a certain amount of advantage to be gained simply by appeasing one's customer's - even moreso in Gaia's case, as its customers make up its community, and the community is the core of the product that Gaia sells. However, that doesn't mean that every investment which appeases some portion of the community is necessarily worthwhile. zOMG! has a small (but very loyal) fanbase. It also requires relatively large investments, to achieve any kind of visible change. Even if Gaia did want to make an investment in something that would please its customers, zOMG! would be a relatively poor choice - there are alternatives that would require less and achieve more; it would be a gamble to attempt any such investment, and zOMG! wouldn't even be the best gamble they have available to them...

Savage Fairy

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They should bring back summons. But, instead of just following your avi around in the game, they could...

- Give off passive buffs.
- Be made into an equitable item so that they can be used in the forums too.

Shameless Tycoon

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I think the real issue here can be judged pretty easily from your duplicate thread's responses in SF... Two dozen downvotes, and a particular user all up in your s**t about why the game (and ergo, saving it) is stupid.

While our community is loyal, I do also think it's an embarrassingly small percentage of the rest of Gaia's userbase.

Benevolent Codger

.~.Lady_Aji.~.
They should bring back summons. But, instead of just following your avi around in the game, they could...

- Give off passive buffs.
- Be made into an equitable item so that they can be used in the forums too.

As a rule, any suggestion containing the word "passive" is generally uninteresting. Unless the passivity is absolutely necessary and there's something suitably interesting backing it up, it's probably worth reconsidering the value of it; Buddies don't meet those basic expectations. Personally, I think simply tacking passive buffs onto Buddies is a waste of an otherwise interesting premise. sweatdrop

I'd be on-board with making them Forum-usable, so long as it wouldn't step on the toes of avatar items. The premise behind Buddies works best when the system can use critters from all over Gaia, but the prospect of making them avatar-usable might severely impact the ability to make Buddies from otherwise rare critters. As an example, a Kitten Star Buddy would sell remarkably well; but if it was usable on one's avatar, it would potentially have a negative impact on the value of existing Kitten Star items. I don't know if this would be considered a serious issue (if I were them, I'd be inclined to avoid it), but if we had to choose between Forum-usable Buddies and making use of Gaia's most popular critters, I'd personally advise the latter...

Eloquent Exhibitionist

Kalon Ordona II
You don't build a dream house for the profit. You build it for the love.
heart emotion_kirakira heart

Also, I should mention this thread since most of the topic in here is related to advertisement.

Personally, with advertising, I go by the motto:
"The best publicity, is free publicity" emotion_dealwithit

Wench

godd@mmit.
with gaia and blue noodle breaking off their contract, it means i'm losing most of my daily source of GC which means less money for zOMG and gaia...hopefully more video offers are coming quick, we need developers to fix bugs/make that new area they've been working on!

Invisible Phantom

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I agree 100% I love zOMG!!!
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Favorite game. zOMG Ftw.

Unbeatable Phantom

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Red Kutai

Well, let's look at it this way. Nothing at all can happen with zOMG! without Gaia being involved, because they're the ones with access to the code.

The staff said they like zOMG! too, and they'd like to see more done on it if possible.

So there's our glimmer of hope. But there needs to be a way for something to come of it.
My hope is that this or something like this can get that started.
Maybe if this thread or one like it gets a million pages and likes or something, they might come up with an idea like "Hey, maybe there is something we can do, somewhere all the zOMG! energy can be centralized and put to use."

The point is to get all the zOMG! minds together. I mean, we could try to use the zOMG! community in this forum for that, but we can't be certain of staff attention. It's too sporadic.

Unless, I dunno, you want to try to get all the zOMG! minds together on our own? Try to cook something up in this area of the forums?
I don't know if just our call will be enough to bring them, and the ideas we generate would probably be too diverse and conflicting without direction from Gaia staff.
Maybe if we could get ahold of that one developer it looks like they're sending us.

Am I making sense?
There's all this energy about zOMG. It's all being wasted without a funnel, something to harness and direct it. I'm hoping Gaia can come up with something to fulfill that role, because I don't know if just using these forums or a guild will be enough.
Kalon Ordona II

Adventure Quest is basically single-player.


That's not entirely true. Adventure Quest came out with a flash based MMORPG that was multi-player called AQ Worlds that's been out for a few years now (younger than zOMG, but not by much). But it really doesn't have the Charm that zOMG offers. Our biggest sell is really that its a MMO made from a community rather than a community made from a MMO. Meaning zOMG was built around and for Gaia, rather than Gaia being a subdivision of the zOMG community.

Benevolent Codger

Kalon Ordona II
Unless, I dunno, you want to try to get all the zOMG! minds together on our own? Try to cook something up in this area of the forums?
I don't know if just our call will be enough to bring them, and the ideas we generate would probably be too diverse and conflicting without direction from Gaia staff.
Maybe if we could get ahold of that one developer it looks like they're sending us.

I'd like to think I have a few of the 'zOMG! minds' on 'speed-dial', actually - if we had something in need of discussion, I'm willing to say with some modicum of confidence that we could pretty easily conjure up several of the people most interested in discussing it. If all you want is a big brainstorming session, just take the initiative and get it started. 3nodding

The fact is, getting attention is not that hard; indeed, if you were able to provide me with a really viable idea, I promise you that it would get to the people it needs to get to. The problem we have is not that no-one is listening, but rather that we're not actually saying anything worth listening to. Work on finding and refining the ideas before you worry about having someone to listen to them. As I've said before, when you find something of value, others will buy in.

And I think you overestimate developers a little bit; yes, they're very skilled at their jobs, but they're regular people just like us. The notion that their direction is somehow most valuable implies a sort of infallibility upon them that I don't think is reasonable. Yes, their input is definitely valuable - especially as it relates to special technical limitations - but in the end, a sensible idea is a sensible idea, no matter who generates it. We will need the developers' help at some point, obviously - but I'd rather not waste their time with issues that we could've ironed-out in the first place. As I said, once we have something that actually has the potential to change zOMG!'s fate, I personally promise to do whatever-it-takes to find someone to listen to it - but, as they say, the first thing's first...

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