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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:52 pm
We all realise that Powerups don't work, for monetising the game. Null Fragments were tried, and didn't wind up working, for their own reasons. What Panagrammic has indicated is that we need a new model for monetising zOMG! - that is, we need a new reason for players to spend Cash.
Gameplay advantages are out - that's what powerups offer, and they don't sell well enough to work. Thus, even if Buddies offered their own advantages, that wouldn't constitute a model change - and I doubt it would be enough to fix the situation, personally.
The other appeal of Buddies - Cash for personalisation - has some potential; but with Gaia offering so much potential for customising one's avatar already, that becomes a little difficult. It has the advantage of working in the same vein as Gaia already does (selling avatar items for Cash) which is natural, but has the complication of forming a sort of 'competition' where zOMG!-based customisation isn't as useful as investing in the sitewide personalisation of one's avatar.
The Null Fragment model - cash for crafting Recipes - is predicated upon the previous model of personalisation, but widened for sitewide appeal. This model failed thanks to some troubles with implementation of it, more than anything - would it be worth re-exploring it? It would require new Recipes (or draining the Market of current ones, somehow) to be viable, but is there potential in it?
Val's proposed before, the concept of cash for features - since so much of Gaia's personalisation comes for free (or, at worst, from spending cash in non-zOMG!-related ways) which is the most common route for MMO cash outlets, perhaps offering what other MMOs offer for free could be viable? The subject came up in regards to PvP, but I suppose this extends to the Null Fragment model as well (inasfar as crafting is often a free system). Are there other features that could be offered on a paying basis - and enough of them to form an actual business model? Is it fair to do so?
The last model that springs to mind is simply cash for Gold - spending Cash equates to increased profit from the game. Aquariums function on a similar premise, so I think it could be considered fair; but the current Gold Potion system is confusing and inelegant. It seems natural (to me, anyway) to offer greater rewards to those players who spend Cash, but is there a way to do it so that seems more comfortable in the game?
---
If anyone else has any other models that could be potentially viable, this would be the place to bring them up. Also, any considerations for implementing any of these models would be worthwhile, and any other comments on the subject are more than welcomed. Now that we've confirmed what it is we need to change, I'd like us to spend some time throwing ideas around...
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:39 pm
Frankly, removing Null Fragments was a disastrously bad idea. They should have just made them harder to get in-game so that people actually had to pay. It would have kept the profit from the game up for both the company and the players.
The problem with null fragments was that they were too easily acquired in-game. This is fairly easily fixed.
- Return them to the game for DMS recipes
- RARE drops from Boss enemies
Similarly, re-introducing the requirement into EB recipes and whatnot will help them maintain their value somewhat.
PowerUps are a lost cause, unless they take zOMG! down the hardcore path - and I don't think they want to do that. Taking a game designed to be "My First MMO" and making it hard seems like a brilliant way to drive people away. (Though, maybe making orbs less common will help - both to draw the game out, and improve sales of Orb Doublers)
Addendum to the above though, if they modified the scaling system so that Hard was Hard - then made it so that Null Fragments were only able to be acquired on Hard then that might drive powerup sales.
There's also the possibility that with things like Epics (should they ever be released) one can make money by releasing ingredients that improve the chances of success. Frankly, I'm surprised Gaia hasn't done this for Alchemy.
The standard approach to monetising a game is a time-for-money approach. This basically means you buy things that would otherwise require large investments of time to get. Frankly, I think they should sell specific rings in BAB. I know of a few people that would shell out 99 GCash to get the last ring they were missing.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:19 pm
What about rereleasing Sweetheart, or possibly other specialty cash shop rings?
I know I'll be criticised for suggesting it, but many people who started the game since Sweetheart left the cash shop would love to buy it for gc, rather than the millions of gold it curently lists for on the mp.
And it would broaden their appeal if they somehow came with an equippable pose, like the amulet.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:31 pm
Gameplay AdvantagesI agree. People need to care about the gameplay beforehand, and we're QUITE certain of ourselves that powerups are uneeded. Before we go out of our way selling that funny ring worsening current balance let's make sure it is worth making BuddiesBuddies are too barebones for the reasons you posted. Their appeal did just not last, unfortunately, although it gave JK something to do that helped lessen the gap, I guess. Giving in-game advantages might spring the interest back a bit again,but I doubt it'd last long. The one thing that I see as giving buddies universal appeal, so that you could make everyone site wide want one, not just zOMG! players, would be to turn them into animated items (more than they already are 3nodding ). You know: Grabbing the in-game animated's animation and placing those on our avatar space - and letting you equip the current powerup versions there as well. And I'd screw the complaints and re-release the old buddies when the new feature was added. Thing is, if gaia released these as new items, then the in-game bonus for buying these buddies would be lost, so it's not exactly the same as saying zOMG! is pulling its weight, not to mention it'd soon turn to Mogas replacing them in the space. Rings getting avatar poses would get a LOT of attention as well. Same as above: Items based off rings wouldn't aid zOMG! Having to get the rings in-game for the poses would do wonders. Null FragsThere was an on-going discussion regarding Epic recipe's system which was shoehorned and turned into alchemy. The idea of bringing back Null fragments was up at the time. Quite simply, when new recipes got fail chances, null frags wold be optional ingredients that would make recipes have less chances of failing. It's only a matter of time until Alchemy is viable and they take that idea there anyways. I bet someone will say they first came up with it this year as well, much like the girl who said she came up with alchemy didn't notice she was largely predated by a lot of people.Regardless, the old Null Frag model could be revived exactly as it used to be as long as 1) Null frags are 100% Cash Shop exclusive 2) You can trade them 3) Only newer recipes use them. In fact the devs have an opportunity to do this right now.I doubt they would help with supporting the game alone though. It'd be something that you add once and it works for some time to come! Pay-to-PlayI hate sweeteners. That's how I read and that's how I think it is. Now, I don't want to beat P2P, but I know it has potential. For once, I know I would pay for headstart tickets. Hell, I paid for them twice already. If zOMG! started doing this with every feature, where content updates need cash for a while until the next content update is out, making the previous one free; I would regrettably follow it, even though I know my desired way of seeing it happen would be out of zOMG!'s reach (the new feature being slowly made while paying players "beta test it"). On that note, opening Bucaneer Boardwalk to everyone was a terrible idea, since it could still get refreshed revenue when it actually starts getting updated. Hell giving us the tickets that early when getting ready to work on something else was a worse idea, but I'm sure there's some reason why it happened... Cash>GoldThe gold potion suffers from execution. People would rather spend that extra GC for 30 days effect than get a stickin' stupid 3 days one. So GC users don't even buy zOMG! stuff, they buy other items entirely, hiding the actual revenue the potion is bringing. As for the people who don't have access to GC, well, to begin with, they don't have access to gaia cash which is the big problem in this picture by itself. But then there's the actual thing: The potions effect is really, really, at the lack of a better word: s**t. 3 days is too short of a time, and people gauge that in their judgement. But the real killer is that you don't get gold FASTER for having the potion. You just get to have gold at a normal rate instead o fa reduced one. You're punishing people who don't pay instead of rewarding those who do. And much like people avoided null frags, everyone just gone to use mules to get zOMG! gold instead, and given gaia's constant references to it recently, it must be an actual issue! So, the best way I can think to do this? Just stop screwing everyone in the a**, do the godamned Double Gold Potion already! Give me a good reason why shouldn't we have it, specially now that there is a cap! Mules would only quicken the rate at which people need to buy extras of these as opposed to, you know, reducing sales. Keep punishing players where gold gain is concerned and players will keep giving you the finger
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:15 pm
I'll throw an opinion on the pile, while we're at it. It's more of a change to the game's Gold-profit model, to better accomodate a Cash influence. Since we've been rather subsatisfied with the Gold-profit that's been present in the game thus far, though, I think that's fair.
Essentially, I'd make the game's profit system quest-oriented - and then sell quests. The idea is borrowed from PWI's 'Orcale' scrolls - Buccaneer Boardwalk could probably manage it as 'Treasure Maps', though. Essentially, you buy the quest (which could be simple 'Kill X', or real expansive treasure hunts), the reward for which comes as large amounts of gold, or loot, or rare loot/Recipes, perhaps even some exclusives.
Whether there would be a number of unique 'Maps', or one 'Treasure Map' item that randomises between potential quests (I like the latter, as it encourages 'farming' in various locales), they could be sold in 'packs' much like RIGs, and opened in-game to start the quest.
This would, naturally, require some alterations to make the game's profits more quest-oriented, than enemy-oriented. It would also necessitate the game actually being able to rely on its quest system, but that's honestly a basic expectation for the game to function - I think it's a perfectly fair requirement. It may, however, prevent the option from being immediately available.
----
I wouldn't mind an attempt to re-introduce Null Fragments, personally - and we seem to agree that they would function best on future Recipes, though, than to try to purge the Market of its current Recipe overload first. In that case, we might choose to limit the Fragments to 'Epics', and still offer basic Recipes for new areas without them. Something like the distinction betwen Gold Shop and Cash Shop items - and note, this means Epics would need to be Cash Shop quality items. Fair enough.
Rafi, I say hands off Sweetheart. While I was thoroughly in-support of the re-release of the Ring when they had their first opportunity, having set the precedent of not doing so sends a pretty clear message. If they were to re-release it now, many users would feel betrayed - and to be honest, I wouldn't blame them one bit. Other Cash Shop rings - with a bit more clarity about the possibility of re-releases - are a possibility, but one I find personally unappealing, for the uncomfortable state of semi-inaccessibility they necessarily rest in. If they're going to to do Rings for Cash, I'd want them to fill space that wouldn't be reasonable to be filled with in-game Rings - the long-talked-about 'Summon Rings', for instance.
Poor Buddies - even with passive buffs, they'd just just be Powerups on a stick. Unless one of the effects winds up being really gamebreaking (which would be a negative in its own right), players will still be buying them primarily for appearances. Yes, the increased objective value would help, but I doubt it would help significantly.
Using them as Animated Items seems like something of an uncomfortable position - with Buddies that already exist as items (like the Kiki - and I suspect there were intended to be more like them) could produce undesirable overlap. Considering that the buddies that would be most popular (RIG pets, like the Star Kittens) are the ones that would cause the most distress in doing this. I personally find the option of using those critters as Buddies more natural to the system, than adding the avatar poses - but I suppose this is about what makes money, more than what's most natural... confused
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:54 am
Just throwing in that I really like that quest idea. I'd keep the granted quests randomized, because that would also increasingly help with keeping specific loot rare. Even with the loot grant, there would need to be a satisfactory gold gained from these, independant from the gold cap. Last thing anyone would like would be spending 49 GC on a quest and get only 1k out of it.
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:50 pm
I don't really feel like I have much to contribute to this conversation.
Ring Idea:
I was relatively new (and extremely uninterested in recipes) to zOMG! when they got rid of Null Fragments, so even though I remember how well they were used, I didn't really get the feel for how they were implemented.
I still have 163 of those suckers... I didn't get rid of them when Nico did the frag to orb/gold thing before its demise.
I will comment on one thing -- the rerelease of Sweetheart.
In my mind, if they were to rerelease Sweetheart, they would have to make Fortune's Favor and Sugar Rush available too. I'm okay with that, which is weird because I don't really want to see Sweetheart released. As a Sweetheart holder, I wouldn't really feel betrayed so to speak with it coming back out, but I would be a little miffed just because I spent 2mil on it and had the idea it wouldn't be coming back. "Miffed" is an exaggeration for me, I would probably just kick myself in the head and get over it.
If they were to put those rings back in the shop, I would want to see them soulbound upon purchase. No selling rings in the MP. No vending the old ones. (Oh, then since we're allowing people to now get the rings that they may not have had the opportunity to get, I want to see Abuse/Integrity in the GC shop too. I want to have both of them. My OCD sense tingle when I'm so close to being complete, but I can't get there! Grahhhhhhhh.)
Meh. Idk. I'm not opposed to the ring idea, but those are my thoughts on it if it were to happen. I definitely wouldn't defend it if it were to go under fire though...
Edit: Actually, not digging the idea anymore. I mean, the concept is great, but as a forum lurker, I don't know if I could handle reading a thousand threads called, "zOMG!, I quit!" The ring idea would definitely, definitely piss people off.
Quest idea:
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Once again, I think it's great in theory.
Idk. I just think that since zOMG! has such little new content regularly coming out, anything that has any sort of replay value (like the Quest system) should be available to everyone, not just the GC users.
I get why that was proposed though. I mean, if people want to use the feature [in theory] they would pay. However, I wouldn't and I don't think most people would. In my opinion the Quest System would hold more people to the game longer if it wasn't GC. If it was GC based, I just think it would let a potentially good opportunity to keep people playing go to waste.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:19 am
ikally Quest idea: I'm not sure how I feel about this. Once again, I think it's great in theory. Idk. I just think that since zOMG! has such little new content regularly coming out, anything that has any sort of replay value (like the Quest system) should be available to everyone, not just the GC users. I get why that was proposed though. I mean, if people want to use the feature [in theory] they would pay. However, I wouldn't and I don't think most people would. In my opinion the Quest System would hold more people to the game longer if it wasn't GC. If it was GC based, I just think it would let a potentially good opportunity to keep people playing go to waste.
I suppose I should've been a tad clearer about that - the 'Treasure Map' item would still be sellable over the Marketplace (under the same principle that allows Cash Shop Aquarium fish to be so), so the replayability wouldn't be explicitly restricted to Cash-users. I agree with you that features that are completely restricted to Cash-users is probably not the best idea, and allowing those items for resale not only expands the potential use for the idea, but allows players who don't play the game to profit on the desirability of those items - which, again, means more sales.
Also, I agree with Quint that having them as Random Quest Generators is probably the better option - I like how it encourages players to re-explore the game, yet still allows them to do so profitably. There's so much content in this game that is largely ignored because it's not strictly profitable, and for a game that is so restricted by content as this one, that's a real shame. It's important to make good use of what you've got, particularly when the prospect of getting more is so naturally uncertain.
There are a handful of technical issues, with the randomised version: namely, trying to keep low-level players from being issued high-level quests - I'd have the list based on a player's unsuppressed level, in that case, and simply have the list expand as the level goes up, so early-area quests are still available at high levels - as well as keeping low-level quests meaningful for high-level players - if we do use the expanding list, at least; but again, it becomes a simple matter of basing the rewards on unsuppressed level as well. I'd propose unsuppressed level instead of Charge Level, as the lower-level Quests would likely require players to suppress, and getting less out of a Cash Shop item simply because you happen to be suppressed when you use it would be rather annoying. Still, basing it on CL at all (and so, by extension, on what rings you currently have equipped) has some of the same issues; as such, there may be a valid argument for basing it on Total Charge, instead.
Apart from technical concerns, my biggest personal issue with the RQG concept is that, well, it's random - and in a game as based around crews as this one, the fact that a Crew could (and likely would) generate 6 different quests after finishing one together doesn't encourage long-term groups. While it's interesting in that it supports branching out and meeting new players in new areas, it's also frustrating being unable to coordinate. As such, I'd probably suggest a slightly more predictable version alongside; 'Dungeon Maps', for instance. There could be offered a 'Dungeon Map: Shallow Sea', 'Dungeon Map: Dead Man's Shadow', etc. - each of which either offers an identical quest with each use ("Defeat boss X", or such) or randomises among a handful of quests within one instance ("Reach chest X", "Defeat so many of enemy Y", etc.). That way, a group of 6 players who actually want to play together can, in a reasonably predictable fashion. Inasfar as these quests would be oriented around defeating bosses, rather than normal gameplay, charging more and offering increased chances for rare loot and Recipes might be reasonable.
Also, Quint's completely right about the Gold - we might consider a system like the one I proposed previously for enemies, even, where the consistency of the reward depends on how many of those quests you've completed in a day; your first quests grant more gold, slowly scaling downward while increasing the rates for rarer loot and Recipes. That way players still see the quests as worthwhile when spending small amounts (as large gold rewards are a more obvious payout), while players who are actually hunting for 'treasures' can dedicate to doing just that... 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:44 am
As far as a re-release of Sweetheart goes, if they were to do that I think they should release a variant of it with the same functionality. Perhaps a Halloween themed Sweetheart with a black color scheme, or a Christmas themed one. Then people that want its functionality can buy an equivalent ring, and the value of sweetheart on the marketplace shouldn't be harmed as significantly.
__________________________________
As far as monetizing zOMG, I think that if done properly, recipes could be an option. The recipes should have the following characteristics:
• Be very rare drops
• Be high quality, multi-pose items, comparable to at least monthly collectables, so that people actually want them
• Should require a LOT of normal item drops
• Should potentially require a few special item drops (for more valuable items perhaps/these items could possibly be soulbound)
• Cost some Gaia Cash to create
• Be soulbound (but not the items created from the recipes)
• Not be given out by zOMG's daily chances (making normal recipes worthless)
• Potentially only be able to be gotten for a limited time (a zOMG version of a monthly collectible), so that the value and desirability of the recipes doesn't diminish over time
They then should release powerups that people can buy that have one of the following features:
• Increases the rate of normal item drops
• Increases the rate of the rare recipe drops
• Makes a set percentage of item drops special item drops
• Value added, all of the above features
• ??? (Some other potential effect)
Furthermore, the special item drops should not drop unless people have a powerup active that allows them to drop.
This setup would have the benefit that it wouldn't cause a class difference among players paying and non-paying players. The fact that the recipes are soulbound would encourage more people to actually play the game and obtain the recipes, rather than just buying the recipes off the marketplace. I'm not entirely decided on the soulbound situation, though, and I think Gaia would need to monitor the situation and decide whether it's beneficial or not. Finally, it would force people to not only pay money to make the recipe, but pay money to be able to get the ingredients to make the items in the first place.
Then have Gaia actually advertise this effectively, and you should hopefully have new players that are trying to get the items, along with a better stream of revenue from zOMG.If the quest system was implemented, the special item could also be a reward for the quest. And as much as a lot of people hate it (me included), they could even make it a rare reward, turning the quest idea into a rig of sorts.
They possibly could take this further, where there is different types of item drops, differentiating them into normal drops, rare drops that are only obtained from an active powerup, quest only drops, and drops that could either be obtained from a quest or an active powerup.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:24 am
Red Kutai
There are a handful of technical issues, with the randomised version: namely, trying to keep low-level players from being issued high-level quests - I'd have the list based on a player's unsuppressed level, in that case, and simply have the list expand as the level goes up, so early-area quests are still available at high levels - as well as keeping low-level quests meaningful for high-level players - if we do use the expanding list, at least; but again, it becomes a simple matter of basing the rewards on unsuppressed level as well. I'd propose unsuppressed level instead of Charge Level, as the lower-level Quests would likely require players to suppress, and getting less out of a Cash Shop item simply because you happen to be suppressed when you use it would be rather annoying. Still, basing it on CL at all (and so, by extension, on what rings you currently have equipped) has some of the same issues; as such, there may be a valid argument for basing it on Total Charge, instead.
Apart from technical concerns, my biggest personal issue with the RQG concept is that, well, it's random - and in a game as based around crews as this one, the fact that a Crew could (and likely would) generate 6 different quests after finishing one together doesn't encourage long-term groups. While it's interesting in that it supports branching out and meeting new players in new areas, it's also frustrating being unable to coordinate. As such, I'd probably suggest a slightly more predictable version alongside; 'Dungeon Maps', for instance. There could be offered a 'Dungeon Map: Shallow Sea', 'Dungeon Map: Dead Man's Shadow', etc. - each of which either offers an identical quest with each use ("Defeat boss X", or such) or randomises among a handful of quests within one instance ("Reach chest X", "Defeat so many of enemy Y", etc.). That way, a group of 6 players who actually want to play together can, in a reasonably predictable fashion. Inasfar as these quests would be oriented around defeating bosses, rather than normal gameplay, charging more and offering increased chances for rare loot and Recipes might be reasonable.
The CL issue has another larger problem tacked to it, which is, the maximum CL would only increase over time; so deciding on a set CL for all quests to work would only end up probably making the item just as dysfunctional as if they decided to just set all quests to the maximum Cl. In one instance,, soon quests will need to be "up"dated, in the other, new players get further and further away from the point they can buy these. I agree that the quest pool should base itself on the unsuppressed Cl of your rings, with the proper warning that wearing weaker rings will restrict quest selection. Also, lower Cl's could even have "get X orbs" quests, completely unavailable past, say, Cl 5; to encourage people to just play the game. As for the suggestion of giving it some predictability, I was thinking "no" since people would flock to get SS's quests and get a bunch of gold off them, leaving other maps completely untouched. So... I was thinking, if you REALLY feel having a form of predictability, how about this instead: You get a "Quest Map" item, you open it like a RIG and inside of it there's a new item, which says what kind of quest it'll have. "Dungeon Map: SS", or "Arena Map: Hive" and finally "Boss Lair Map: KKD" People would be thrilled to get specific quests (SS and DMS would obviously reach high prices due to overlap with other rewards) and sell those they didn't want on the MP (derp, Coliseum, no one wants it). If a location got "undesired", and a crew REALLY wanted to play togheter, prices would drop and crews of 6 people could buy the maps en bulk to have a casual friday afternoon run together with higher rewards; having fun off of "failure items". Also, gaia profits more from the RIG nature of the map, seeing how the in-between step serves the function of a "Failure" or "Success" stage that RIGs have and get sold all the time. This sounds more and more like a RIG, but with a step between.SS only crews with cash shop quests on top? Well, those are for the millionaires, rich and wanting to get richer, who opened like 50 maps beforehand.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:51 pm
There is one option for monetization that several games do but I bet would most likely NOT work here.
Sometimes games sell either stuff like fireworks, which let you launch fireworks above your character. Or noisemakers which... make noise to annoy everyone around you (and some other signaling/attention grabbing tatics that could easily be replaced by a simple text message)
Oh yes, these ARE limited use items, and that's the charm of it: They're rare, so for some backwards reason, people want them!
Why would it not work for zOMG!?
1) They're emotes. I doubt people would buy emotes after already getting the similarly just for show pets.
2) They're animations, and on the issue of animations, we could probably do better to just get either rings or animated pets.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:56 pm
ezaire As far as monetizing zOMG, I think that if done properly, recipes could be an option. The recipes should have the following characteristics:
• Be very rare drops
• Be high quality, multi-pose items, comparable to at least monthly collectables, so that people actually want them
• Should require a LOT of normal item drops
• Should potentially require a few special item drops (for more valuable items perhaps/these items could possibly be soulbound)
• Cost some Gaia Cash to create
• Be soulbound (but not the items created from the recipes)
• Not be given out by zOMG's daily chances (making normal recipes worthless)
• Potentially only be able to be gotten for a limited time (a zOMG version of a monthly collectible), so that the value and desirability of the recipes doesn't diminish over time
They then should release powerups that people can buy that have one of the following features:
• Increases the rate of normal item drops
• Increases the rate of the rare recipe drops
• Makes a set percentage of item drops special item drops
• Value added, all of the above features
• ??? (Some other potential effect)
Furthermore, the special item drops should not drop unless people have a powerup active that allows them to drop.
This setup would have the benefit that it wouldn't cause a class difference among players paying and non-paying players. The fact that the recipes are soulbound would encourage more people to actually play the game and obtain the recipes, rather than just buying the recipes off the marketplace. I'm not entirely decided on the soulbound situation, though, and I think Gaia would need to monitor the situation and decide whether it's beneficial or not. Finally, it would force people to not only pay money to make the recipe, but pay money to be able to get the ingredients to make the items in the first place.
Then have Gaia actually advertise this effectively, and you should hopefully have new players that are trying to get the items, along with a better stream of revenue from zOMG.
You mention charging Cash to produce the Recipe at all - would you support the re-introduction of Null Fragments, toward that end, included as a component of these rare Recipes? There seems to be some faith in the Null Fragment model as it stands, and that its previous failure was simply a matter of poor implementation - would that suffice, for that part of your suggestion?
Personally, I'm not keen on requiring Cash twice - if you want a Cash threshold, it makes most sense to make it obvious (as Null Fragments are). If you want a higher Cash threshold, increasing it in an obvious manner (charging more Null Fragments) seems fairer than a more roundabout method. The latter feels a tad underhanded, and Cash-related features get enough accusations of corruption without any of that. But, perhaps that's just me. sweatdrop I suppose the question I should ask is, "What advantage does it pose to have these special Cash-exclusive components, over simply requiring more Cash to produce the Recipe?"
Still, I agree that the Recipe system has a lot of potential as a working model; there's evidence that cash-for-items works on the site, and so long as Cashless Recipes continue to be released as well (the same theory as Gold Shop updates), it would suit the system rather nicely. 3nodding
Also, as a general note: Soulbinding is an important tool, but it needs to be used carefully. While there is a small portion of the populace that would make a decision to play the game, based on soulbound items, there is a similarly-sized portion that would then be unwilling to invest in items they can't use - that is to say, as much as Soulbinding drives gameplay, it hinders monetisation. Considering that the game needs both, currently, I certainly wouldn't rule out Soulbinding as an option - but it's important to be mindful of its effects.
DrQuint The CL issue has another larger problem tacked to it, which is, the maximum CL would only increase over time; so deciding on a set CL for all quests to work would only end up probably making the item just as dysfunctional as if they decided to just set all quests to the maximum Cl. In one instance,, soon quests will need to be "up"dated, in the other, new players get further and further away from the point they can buy these. I agree that the quest pool should base itself on the unsuppressed Cl of your rings, with the proper warning that wearing weaker rings will restrict quest selection. Also, lower Cl's could even have "get X orbs" quests, completely unavailable past, say, Cl 5; to encourage people to just play the game. As for the suggestion of giving it some predictability, I was thinking "no" since people would flock to get SS's quests and get a bunch of gold off them, leaving other maps completely untouched. So... I was thinking, if you REALLY feel having a form of predictability, how about this instead: You get a "Quest Map" item, you open it like a RIG and inside of it there's a new item, which says what kind of quest it'll have. "Dungeon Map: SS", or "Arena Map: Hive" and finally "Boss Lair Map: KKD" People would be thrilled to get specific quests (SS and DMS would obviously reach high prices due to overlap with other rewards) and sell those they didn't want on the MP (derp, Coliseum, no one wants it). If a location got "undesired", and a crew REALLY wanted to play togheter, prices would drop and crews of 6 people could buy the maps en bulk to have a casual friday afternoon run together with higher rewards; having fun off of "failure items". Also, gaia profits more from the RIG nature of the map, seeing how the in-between step serves the function of a "Failure" or "Success" stage that RIGs have and get sold all the time. This sounds more and more like a RIG, but with a step between. SS only crews with cash shop quests on top? Well, those are for the millionaires, rich and wanting to get richer, who opened like 50 maps beforehand.
I don't suspect an increasing CL cap would really cause that much problem; so long as you don't factor the current maximum CL into the equation, things remain the same. The fact that you'd need to update quests to accomodate higher-level players seems completely natural to me, particularly inasfar as I believe higher levels should always be linked to higher-level areas - adding in CL 12.0 quests, for instance, would revolve around BB Full and DMS; adding additional quests to these 'Treasure Maps' would simply be a normal part of increasing the level cap.That seems reasonable to me.
Also, I agree completely that throwing a significant orb advantage as part of lower-level rewards makes plenty of sense. In fact, that seems like probably the most natural way to make up for the lower rewards that lower levels grant - helping them reach higher levels, as well.
People would flock to SS if and only if it was more worthwhile than other instances - while this is currently the case, a significant point of these quests is to make gameplay worthwhile in many areas, at any given level. Making the SS 'Maps' exclusively better than others would make relatively little sense, then, as far as the premise is concerned.
I find the concept of a Random Random Quest Generator Generator a little convoluted, personally - in the same way that I don't see the point in making a RIG full of RIGs, making a RIG full of 'Treasure Maps' seems more complex than it's really worth. I think sufficient care could be taken to avoid having predictable quests become explicitly more profitable (the easiest solution being having those quests focus on rare Boss-related drops, rather than giving out very significant gold to begin with), that adding an extra layer of randomness to it becomes rather unnecessary. Still, as long as the predictable 'Maps' are available on the Marketplace it would help, and I suspect we can agree on that point.
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EDIT: Emotes! I agree they make for a bad model, but I'd still propose selling Holiday-themed emotes (that change yearly) from the Cash Shop, during events. Additionally, I'd have those items drop from enemies over the course of the event - so that you can get them either by participating, or by investing. I've proposed before that Sweetheart would've been a much better idea if it had had no mechanical effect whatsoever, and that's would these would be - essentially, a pack of Powerups with an animation, but no mechanical effect. They'd be collector's items once the Event ended, exclusive to those who were there, or able to find some remaining on the Marketplace (because like Powerups, they would have limited uses). It offers all the same 'wow-factor' that something like Sweetheart would, but without occupying design space needlessly... 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:18 pm
Hold it right there. I knew I should have brought these up for some reason... Constant effects! Rather than a short lasting emote. Those pink shines from sweetheart are currently "unique" and don't really fall under the category of emotes. Some people would probably kill to have cosmetic effects such as those. Several already DO. There's animated items for avatars, and for the same reason ways to "re-skin" ring animations are sometimes asked for. In fact, that's what any "lasting" one would end up being in a way. Cheap and temporary but interactive in-game animated items. Anyways, it's out there, a little "bonus idea". If gaia feels like releasing New Year's fireworks that... idk that explode in different patterns each time and that would totally sell for awesome screenshots with loads of people then they're the ladies and lords of their own game to do so.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:53 pm
Red Kutai ezaire As far as monetizing zOMG, I think that if done properly, recipes could be an option. The recipes should have the following characteristics:
• Be very rare drops
• Be high quality, multi-pose items, comparable to at least monthly collectables, so that people actually want them
• Should require a LOT of normal item drops
• Should potentially require a few special item drops (for more valuable items perhaps/these items could possibly be soulbound)
• Cost some Gaia Cash to create
• Be soulbound (but not the items created from the recipes)
• Not be given out by zOMG's daily chances (making normal recipes worthless)
• Potentially only be able to be gotten for a limited time (a zOMG version of a monthly collectible), so that the value and desirability of the recipes doesn't diminish over time
They then should release powerups that people can buy that have one of the following features:
• Increases the rate of normal item drops
• Increases the rate of the rare recipe drops
• Makes a set percentage of item drops special item drops
• Value added, all of the above features
• ??? (Some other potential effect)
Furthermore, the special item drops should not drop unless people have a powerup active that allows them to drop.
This setup would have the benefit that it wouldn't cause a class difference among players paying and non-paying players. The fact that the recipes are soulbound would encourage more people to actually play the game and obtain the recipes, rather than just buying the recipes off the marketplace. I'm not entirely decided on the soulbound situation, though, and I think Gaia would need to monitor the situation and decide whether it's beneficial or not. Finally, it would force people to not only pay money to make the recipe, but pay money to be able to get the ingredients to make the items in the first place.
Then have Gaia actually advertise this effectively, and you should hopefully have new players that are trying to get the items, along with a better stream of revenue from zOMG.
You mention charging Cash to produce the Recipe at all - would you support the re-introduction of Null Fragments, toward that end, included as a component of these rare Recipes? There seems to be some faith in the Null Fragment model as it stands, and that its previous failure was simply a matter of poor implementation - would that suffice, for that part of your suggestion?
Personally, I'm not keen on requiring Cash twice - if you want a Cash threshold, it makes most sense to make it obvious (as Null Fragments are). If you want a higher Cash threshold, increasing it in an obvious manner (charging more Null Fragments) seems fairer than a more roundabout method. The latter feels a tad underhanded, and Cash-related features get enough accusations of corruption without any of that. But, perhaps that's just me. sweatdrop I suppose the question I should ask is, "What advantage does it pose to have these special Cash-exclusive components, over simply requiring more Cash to produce the Recipe?"
Still, I agree that the Recipe system has a lot of potential as a working model; there's evidence that cash-for-items works on the site, and so long as Cashless Recipes continue to be released as well (the same theory as Gold Shop updates), it would suit the system rather nicely. 3nodding
Also, as a general note: Soulbinding is an important tool, but it needs to be used carefully. While there is a small portion of the populace that would make a decision to play the game, based on soulbound items, there is a similarly-sized portion that would then be unwilling to invest in items they can't use - that is to say, as much as Soulbinding drives gameplay, it hinders monetisation. Considering that the game needs both, currently, I certainly wouldn't rule out Soulbinding as an option - but it's important to be mindful of its effects.
You ask why shouldn't they just make it cost more cash to make the item? If the only involvement of Cash is in the cost of making the item, then the item is directly comparable to a Monthly Collectible or the random Cash Shop item like the current Forlorn Opera Singer. At this point Gaia then has to ask: why bother devoting artists to making zOMG cash items when it requires extra work for no gain when we could just release it into the Cash shop? Adding the requirement of powerups allows Gaia to have an income that wouldn't be possible without zOMG.
As far as a better re-implementation of Null Fragments, I think that could be a step in the right direction. Special item drops, however, could force you to farm different enemies depending on what special item you need, as they would be enemy dependent. This could help encourage people to play in areas and in instances that are rarely touched anymore. Over time new special item drops could be released and old ones retired. Getting a new special item you haven't gotten before rather then being stuck with Null Fragments could spark a 'hey something new' feeling, as insignificant as it might be.
As far as soulbinding goes, I think that soulbinding the special ingredients probably wouldn't be desirable in the long run (since you are wasting cash for them), but for the recipes themselves it would encourage people to actually play zOMG or have to spend money on the completed items themselves. For people not interested in the recipes, they can just sell them for whatever the sellback value for the recipe is. For a further incentive, they could even have achievements like alchemy has to encourage achievement whores to play zOMG so they can get the recipes and the achievements (soulbinding would be beneficial in this case).
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