Multifaceted Ethics of our Ancestors

[Michael Noire]

So some prepubescent teen wrote a book about George Washington as a Bloody Tyrant, and then got an interview on Fox news in response to the Snowden Case with the NSA leak. The author when asked what Mr. $1.25 would think responded old George would have opposed the NSA as a rule of thumb, but would have executed the traitor.

Now at this point, we need to take a pause, and look at the bigger picture of making arguments based on the authority of historical figures, like Jefferson, King, Washington, Lincoln, or even Biblical characters like Moses and David.

so here's what I think. Good old George would have opposed the NSA and sought to Abolish it, then he would have sent for the Traitor's capture to have a public hanging. Then, after the hanging, he would have gone back home to his slaves and "signed the 1793 Fugitive Slave Law, the first to provide for the right of slaveholders to recapture slaves even in free states that had abolished slavery."

Aristotle was a man with great ideas as well. of course, we should continue to base our society on Aristotle, right? Great Aristotle saw women as only little above slaves, and slavery itself as perfectly acceptable.

In reality, what makes men great is what we should remember and learn from them, and take with us, but we need to learn to separate the greatness from the men, lest worship of the man lead to worship of the man's faults.

I do not believe Whistle blowing on unethical or illegal government activities is a hanging offense - it's actually heroic to pit one's life and word against a trillion dollar war machine. I do not believe slave masters have any rights to exist, much less a legal right to chase down escapees. If anything, it is the slave master who should be placed in shackles or hung. And I do not believe women are inferior to men or somehow between "man and slave", as a slave is nothing less than a man, and a human being measured between two equals is a part of that equity.

[Wendigo]

Moses would have his most loyal men strap swords to their hips, and wade from one side of the camp to the other slaughtering everybody who disagrees.

[Heimdalr]

An intelligence agency during that time would consist of one person or be abolished before they even got to take a single 4-month boat trip to any relevant country.

Spying on the enemy army ten leagues off the horizon he would be okay with and even vigorously defend. But spying on everyone, everywhere, that wouldn't be very efficient.

[Omnileech]

Washington wouldn't even comprehend the NSA, as there was nothing even close to it back then and the world he lived in was drastically different to the one we have now.

[azulmagia]

First off, the President doesn't have the authority to execute citizens for anything, even treason. Though latterly there's been a change of mind.

Secondly, what Snowden did doesn't count as treason under the legal definition. And if we're talking strictly metaphorical definitions, then the status of a traitor can be leveled at the people who set up this s**t in the first place just as well or even better, right?

[Less Than Liz]

Omnileech

Washington wouldn't even comprehend the NSA, as there was nothing even close to it back then and the world he lived in was drastically different to the one we have now.

"Federal government listening on private conversations of citizens" would probably get it across.

[Omnileech]

Less Than Liz

Omnileech

Washington wouldn't even comprehend the NSA, as there was nothing even close to it back then and the world he lived in was drastically different to the one we have now.

"Federal government listening on private conversations of citizens" would probably get it across.

Not really. The context of it all is lost. The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

[azulmagia]

Omnileech

Less Than Liz

Omnileech

Washington wouldn't even comprehend the NSA, as there was nothing even close to it back then and the world he lived in was drastically different to the one we have now.

"Federal government listening on private conversations of citizens" would probably get it across.

Not really. The context of it all is lost. The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

The Black Chambers were still in operation at the time, the Austrian Black Chamber was the most effective one of the bunch, their experts could take down even the most fiendish homophonic nomenclators in like a fortnight or something.

Ironically the United States had a superior cipher system at the time (the Jefferson cylinder) but never used it. When Bazeries reinvented it, theory of cryptanalysis had advanced by so much in the meantime that the cylinder was practically useless. What could have been...

[Less Than Liz]

Omnileech

Less Than Liz

Omnileech

Washington wouldn't even comprehend the NSA, as there was nothing even close to it back then and the world he lived in was drastically different to the one we have now.

"Federal government listening on private conversations of citizens" would probably get it across.

Not really. The context of it all is lost. The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

No, you're just being contrarian.

[Lord Cameron]

lol, people like Washington are exactly who the NSA is looking for.

Freemasonry is to old England as
Islam is to modern America

[Ammo Amy]

Omnileech

The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

The closest thing in that time period would be the Post Office making notes of addresses and taking note of what letters were going to and from certain addresses. If an address comes to their attention, such as the address where a certain Benedict Arnold resides, then they concentrate on where he is sending letters to and where he is getting letters from. The contents don't necessarily need to be read, and thus the privacy is maintained, unless a warrant is requested to actually read those letters.

That is the about the closest correlation to what is happening today.

[Project 429]

Hamilton would have loved the NSA, that monarchist b*****d.

The people we revere are just diverse enough to be worth revering by all. They were still great men. It's not worth getting hung up on these comparisons.

[Wendigo]

Heimdalr

An intelligence agency during that time would consist of one person or be abolished before they even got to take a single 4-month boat trip to any relevant country.

Nuh UH

Rifling a person's entirely-paper correspondence would be kinda tricky, in any case. Although delaying it in transit while you read it would be harder to ferret out, since its actual transit consisted mainly of delays.

[Omnileech]

Ammo Amy

Omnileech

The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

The closest thing in that time period would be the Post Office making notes of addresses and taking note of what letters were going to and from certain addresses. If an address comes to their attention, such as the address where a certain Benedict Arnold resides, then they concentrate on where he is sending letters to and where he is getting letters from. The contents don't necessarily need to be read, and thus the privacy is maintained, unless a warrant is requested to actually read those letters.

That is the about the closest correlation to what is happening today.

Which isn't really that close at all. The concept of the internet would blow Washington's mind.

[Ammo Amy]

Omnileech

Ammo Amy

Omnileech

The closest thing Washington could relate to is the Government reading snail mail, and that doesn't really describe what the NSA is doing or why they are doing it.

The closest thing in that time period would be the Post Office making notes of addresses and taking note of what letters were going to and from certain addresses. If an address comes to their attention, such as the address where a certain Benedict Arnold resides, then they concentrate on where he is sending letters to and where he is getting letters from. The contents don't necessarily need to be read, and thus the privacy is maintained, unless a warrant is requested to actually read those letters.

That is the about the closest correlation to what is happening today.

Which isn't really that close at all. The concept of the internet would blow Washington's mind.

I don't doubt that. "Witchcraft" would probably be the term.

What I was trying to get at is an analogy of how the NSA program would operate if it were done in his time period.