Purina Beyond

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Shanna66

KyokiNeko

Thanks to latrans cardinal Shana aand everyone else for the help. II'm going to try out the raw with my cats and see how they take it. I'm a vegetarian so I'm actuslly not used to fixing and preparing meats. I've seen hoe other people do it so I think it's all good. Baby will definitely not be playing in kitty litter or the food bowls for that matter lol

lol this has been a very entertaining thread so im happy you made it. i for one never knew that working a little with human nutrition meant someone was an expert of nutrition for other species. very amazing

i only do partial raw for my dog and cats but i do full raw for everyone else. the forum holistic ferrets has a small section for other pets and they have some links to some raw feeding info sites and i think most of the regulars there do full raw with their dogs and cats and should be able to answer most of your questions. i think some of the members are vegan or vegetarian so they may be able to help you out with any moral issues

also im going to suggest avoiding premade raw diets like frozen and freeze dried. im doing that for my 2 ferrets and its costing almost as much as feeding my 55lbs dog. plus its fun watching your pet break bones and rip things up like nature designed them to and all premade raw diets are soft and squishy.

I would just like to state that you bit your own a** right there. You state that as a nutritionist knowing about human nutrition I must feel I am an expert in all species. Not once did I say that. I only quoted scientific data that I as a trained nutrition can read and understand. In all reality I believe I am more qualified than you and the others to dictate nutrition simple because I have studied nutrition. My interest in nutritional science didn't stop at humans. I also have an interest in aquatic and pet nutrition. While I am not an expert in these areas I will say and stand by the fact that I have a better knowledge of nutrition than even the Gaian biologist. Savage has quoted articles, as well as Latrans, that have no bearing at all on the subject other than the reiterate and affirm my points. Domestic dogs did not evolve only from wolves. They evolved from another early canid, now extinct, which we cannot study or know the digestive system and eating habits of. All raw diets, unless under constant scrutiny, lack a vast majority of necessary vitamins and minerals. That is the SCIENTIFIC DATA AND CONCLUSION. So go enjoy living.

[Latrans]

No, that's not at all what I've ever meant, hon.

Dogs and wolves share a more recent common ancestor than dogs and any other living canid, and dogs fall out together with modern wolves as an outgroup. I'm not sure why that's such an out there crazy concept, but there you go. whee

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

this, this, this, this, and this

after hunting down your articles

I'm pretty sure you don't understand the third article then blaugh

It's not saying that dogs aren't related to wolves, it's saying that dogs are to wolves as humans are to chimps. An idea you should have got from Latrans' phylogenetic trees.

Here. This study has found that modern dogs are more suited to digesting starches than wolves, which set them apart from their early-canid ancestors. And it has 37 reference articles, any of which can helpful in understanding early-dog/early-canid diets.

I hate to say this, but you do not sound particularly scientifically literate when it comes to things with which you don't agree.

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Latrans

No, that's not at all what I've ever meant, hon.

Dogs and wolves share a more recent common ancestor than dogs and any other living canid, and dogs fall out together with modern wolves as an outgroup. I'm not sure why that's such an out there crazy concept, but there you go. whee

never said they weren't related but the fact remains that research has shown that they are more closely related the mDNA of a now extinct, therefore un-study-able, species of wolf-like, meaning by bone structure and dentition, animals from the European continent. We also have studies proving the dental structure of a wolf is more like that of jackal than other carnivores. We also know by modern observation that wolves aren't strict carnivores. They are actually omnivores and due to humans pushing their boundaries have become nearly strict carnivores. So that in itself tells me, not being a biologist, that the diet of the modern wolf is not evolutionary, but rather forced into being by humans need to claim territory. All promotion for raw feeding is anecdotal. All scientific data shows it is nutritionally unsound and even evolutionarily not true. I am talking SCIENCE, EVOLUTION, AND COMMON SENSE.

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

the diet of the modern wolf is not evolutionary.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

okay lets do this s**t step by step...

Do you believe the raw diet is the best diet because it is the diet dogs evolved on?

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

.

Actually, I don't think you know who or what you're arguing anymore. Except in favor of your own expertise?

Earlier you say that the bite of modern wolves is shown to be indicative of an omnivorous diet, but then say that modern wolves aren't evolved to be omnivorous? Are you sure you know what evolution is?

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

the diet of the modern wolf is not evolutionary.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

okay lets do this s**t step by step...

Do you believe the raw diet is the best diet because it is the diet dogs evolved on?

No, and not a single one of my cited studies said that. You're not paying attention at all, are you? We're trying to correct you on things, but you're so intent on already being correct that you've got tunnel vision =P

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

.

Actually, I don't think you know who or what you're arguing anymore. Except in favor of your own expertise?

Earlier you say that the bite of modern wolves is shown to indicative of an omnivorous diet, but then say that modern wolves aren't evolved to be omnivorous? Are you sure you know what evolution is?

I said modern wolves weren't evolved to be carnivorous. Get your head out your a** please. This a debate not debase yourself ITT.

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

.

Actually, I don't think you know who or what you're arguing anymore. Except in favor of your own expertise?

Earlier you say that the bite of modern wolves is shown to indicative of an omnivorous diet, but then say that modern wolves aren't evolved to be omnivorous? Are you sure you know what evolution is?

I said modern wolves weren't evolved to be carnivorous. Get your head out your a** please. This a debate not debase yourself ITT.

You did say that, my mistake. Doesn't change any of the previous 3-4 pages, though.

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

the diet of the modern wolf is not evolutionary.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

okay lets do this s**t step by step...

Do you believe the raw diet is the best diet because it is the diet dogs evolved on?

No, and not a single one of my cited studies said that. You're not paying attention at all, are you? We're trying to correct you on things, but you're so intent on already being correct that you've got tunnel vision =P

I am asking you based on your beliefs you stated.

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

the diet of the modern wolf is not evolutionary.

I don't think you understand what that word means.

okay lets do this s**t step by step...

Do you believe the raw diet is the best diet because it is the diet dogs evolved on?

No, and not a single one of my cited studies said that. You're not paying attention at all, are you? We're trying to correct you on things, but you're so intent on already being correct that you've got tunnel vision =P

I am asking you based on your beliefs you stated.

I'm sorry, can you quote me on my beliefs stated? I thought this was a scientific discussion, not one about beliefs.

[Yamamoto Nezumi]

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

.

Actually, I don't think you know who or what you're arguing anymore. Except in favor of your own expertise?

Earlier you say that the bite of modern wolves is shown to indicative of an omnivorous diet, but then say that modern wolves aren't evolved to be omnivorous? Are you sure you know what evolution is?

I said modern wolves weren't evolved to be carnivorous. Get your head out your a** please. This a debate not debase yourself ITT.

You did say that, my mistake. Doesn't change any of the previous 3-4 pages, though.

please quote the statements you find fault in. Please. That way I can be on the same page. I've already done so.

[Roland Gridley]

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

.

Actually, I don't think you know who or what you're arguing anymore. Except in favor of your own expertise?

Earlier you say that the bite of modern wolves is shown to indicative of an omnivorous diet, but then say that modern wolves aren't evolved to be omnivorous? Are you sure you know what evolution is?

I said modern wolves weren't evolved to be carnivorous. Get your head out your a** please. This a debate not debase yourself ITT.

You did say that, my mistake. Doesn't change any of the previous 3-4 pages, though.

please quote the statements you find fault in. Please. That way I can be on the same page. I've already done so.

Oh hon, quoting an entire 4 pages would just be rude to the rest of the thread.

But I can totally direct you to the post you seem to be ignoring.

Roland Gridley

Nakamura Momoko

Roland Gridley

this, this, this, this, and this

after hunting down your articles

I'm pretty sure you don't understand the third article then blaugh

It's not saying that dogs aren't related to wolves, it's saying that dogs are to wolves as humans are to chimps. An idea you should have got from Latrans' phylogenetic trees.

Here. This study has found that modern dogs are more suited to digesting starches than wolves, which set them apart from their early-canid ancestors. And it has 37 reference articles, any of which can helpful in understanding early-dog/early-canid diets.

I hate to say this, but you do not sound particularly scientifically literate when it comes to things with which you don't agree.

[Latrans]

Nakamura Momoko

I am talking SCIENCE, EVOLUTION, AND COMMON SENSE.

lol

I have not spoken about raw diets at all, babes.

And anyway, I'm glad you totally agree with me on the taxonomy of canids! That's fun--it's too bad we had to go round and round before that was settled! emotion_kirakira