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Omnipresent Warlord

--Sky Kid Tai--
Government involvement? There was a story making rounds about DOJ involvement that was interesting but I won't delv that way. Personal bias? Uh, duh. Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light. Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!

My prediction; there is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman had planned intent to kill Martin so the murder charge is DoA (as far as I see it). If they find him guilty, I'd be interested to see what piece of evidence proved without reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had intent to kill (in this day an age, just OWNING a gun is a reason apparently).

While evidence suggests strongly that Martin was the aggressor, we don't know, nor have any conclusive evidence who made the first aggressive action (I don't count following. It is niether aggressive, nor illegal). So the self-defense plea is up in the air.

With the judge allowing the charges for manslaughter, this is the most likely outcome (even though manslaughter charges were not formally filed).


I don't know which I find more amusing. That your racist attitudes are projecting to others, or that you're so ******** paranoid. Either way you're not using your brain or Occam's razor
Omnileech
--Sky Kid Tai--
Government involvement? There was a story making rounds about DOJ involvement that was interesting but I won't delv that way. Personal bias? Uh, duh. Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light. Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!

My prediction; there is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman had planned intent to kill Martin so the murder charge is DoA (as far as I see it). If they find him guilty, I'd be interested to see what piece of evidence proved without reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had intent to kill (in this day an age, just OWNING a gun is a reason apparently).

While evidence suggests strongly that Martin was the aggressor, we don't know, nor have any conclusive evidence who made the first aggressive action (I don't count following. It is niether aggressive, nor illegal). So the self-defense plea is up in the air.

With the judge allowing the charges for manslaughter, this is the most likely outcome (even though manslaughter charges were not formally filed).


I don't know which I find more amusing. That your racist attitudes are projecting to others, or that you're so ******** paranoid. Either way you're not using your brain or Occam's razor


I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.

And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went. And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.

Omnipresent Warlord

Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise

Shameless Fairy

Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.

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CaiteeByrd
Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?

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Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?


That's what I was saying. He's half hispanic, so they are playing up his white heritage to make them saying it's a racially motivated crime make more sense. If he was half black half hispanic, they wouldn't call him a black hispanic.

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Taking an interest in a case doesn't translate into interference. There's been no evidence that anyone in Obama's administration, much less Obama himself, has attempted to tamper with this case, so yes it is a baseless suggestion. I'm not sure I've even seen a motive mentioned for any alleged intervention. I don't even think the president has any power he could exert that could be counted as pressure. So unless you're suggesting that he went out of his way to ask her nicely to please give Zimmerman a hard time, I'm not sure what you mean by pressure.

Besides that, the judge has plenty of reasons to behave the way she has without "being pressured into it by the president" being at the top of the list. Personal bias would be the obvious one, but judges have been known to base their courtroom conduct on expected public reaction. She could even be feeling pressured by local officials. Maybe she's just off her meds. All of this makes significantly more sense than the suggestion that the president is pressuring her into acting the way she has, a suggestion which is not supported by actual evidence, so yes, it is a baseless suggestion. It is not rooted in either logic or facts.


Source showing political interference.

(CNN) -- The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.

Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.

"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."

When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.

It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
Ex-police chief: I upheld my oath
Ex-police chief speaks about Zimmerman
Why did prosecutor, defense use a dummy?
Zimmerman trial standoff over evidence

Zimmerman told police he killed Martin after the teen attacked him. While the evidence at the time corroborated that claim, the ex-chief said, Lee's lead investigator made a recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.

Justice Dept. 'peacekeepers' worked 'Trayvon' rallies, group claims

It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.

"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold your oath."

"That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.

One example involved the 911 tapes, in which neighbors implored dispatchers to send police as a voice in the background screamed for help.

The Sanford police intended to release the tapes once the probe was over, Lee said, because you can't publicize evidence amid an investigation.

Instead, the mayor told him on March 16 the tapes had been released to Martin's family and the public. The family was asked to help identify voices, Lee said, but if police were in charge of the investigation, they wouldn't have presented evidence to a group.

"It should be done individually so there's no influence on the other people in the room," he said. "Then, there's no questions that can be brought up about how (an identification) was obtained or whether it was influenced."
I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity.
Ex-Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee

Releasing the evidence to the public was problematic, as well, because it created the potential for someone to concoct a "story about what they observed when they really didn't observe it," he said.

Martin family attorney Jasmine Rand said she doesn't believe playing the tapes to a room full of people "makes any difference to the outcome of the case."

"We have to remember that that was played for the family in a private room because they were hearing the last moments of their son's life as he cried for help," Rand told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday night. "And I think Sybrina Fulton (Martin's mother) got up and walked out of that room. She didn't sit in there and talk to everybody, because she had a visceral reaction when she heard her son yell for help and she couldn't help him because she knew he was dead."

Lee was placed on paid leave March 22, 2012, after the Sanford City Commission expressed a lack of confidence in him. The same commission rejected his resignation in a 3-2 vote a month later, with dissenting commissioners questioning the fairness of Lee's losing his job.

Two months later, Lee was sacked. City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release, "The police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community."

Lee believes lack of confidence did play a role in his dismissal, he told CNN, but he also believes Bonaparte faced political pressure and terminated him "without cause," which was permitted under his employment contract.

"I upheld my oath," Lee said. "I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity."
Zimmerman trial runs late into night
Manslaughter more likely?
Preparing for Zimmerman verdict
Legal panel: Judge won't allow animation

Asked whether he would do things differently given the opportunity, the 30-year veteran of law enforcement said there always are things he could change in hindsight, but he stands by the investigation.

At every turn in the 40-minute interview with CNN's Howell, Lee doggedly defended his investigators, saying race never played a role in any decision and that his officers "conducted an unbiased review."

Investigators knew letting Zimmerman walk free for 46 days was an unpopular decision -- and they took abuse for it -- "but they performed professionally. That's the mark of a strong police department."

Lee took issue with the media casting his department as apathetic or lackadaisical in the case.

"A lot of the information that was given out as fact was misinformation," he said. "It was reported in some media that we didn't conduct an investigation for two weeks, but yet in that same media they would show a photograph of a crime scene with crime scene tape, with patrol cars and blue lights and investigators on the scene."

Lee shrugged off the notion that he was hired to clean up racism and other problems in the department. His goal upon becoming chief was to improve professionalism and trust, and he set several goals, all of which were met during his 10-month tenure, he said.

One of his greatest regrets, he said, is that the Zimmerman investigation ultimately shattered his childhood dream to be police chief of the community where he was raised.

"It's a dream of a vision that is going to be unrealized," he said. "I'm at peace with it on most days. I'm a man of faith. But it stings.


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, because this only supports what I already said: there is no evidence that Obama, his administration, or any other federal agent intervened in the proceedings. In this article, Lee mentions a number of local sources that he felt pressured by, which I already acknowledged as a possibility, but he mentions exactly zero sources of pressure beyond that.
Oh I'm just showing there was a political reason to charge Zimmerman. I don't care who did it, it was done though and there should be impeachment of any public representative that did push for it.


Sure, I never said that there wasn't any political pressure involved in this case, just that there's no reason to suggest that political pressure came from any source except locally.


The DOJ starting protests to get Zimmerman arrested doesn't qualify as "non-local," then?

Dapper Gawker

CaiteeByrd
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CaiteeByrd
Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?


That's what I was saying. He's half hispanic, so they are playing up his white heritage to make them saying it's a racially motivated crime make more sense. If he was half black half hispanic, they wouldn't call him a black hispanic.
They'd simply call him black, that sounds more menacing.

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Taking an interest in a case doesn't translate into interference. There's been no evidence that anyone in Obama's administration, much less Obama himself, has attempted to tamper with this case, so yes it is a baseless suggestion. I'm not sure I've even seen a motive mentioned for any alleged intervention. I don't even think the president has any power he could exert that could be counted as pressure. So unless you're suggesting that he went out of his way to ask her nicely to please give Zimmerman a hard time, I'm not sure what you mean by pressure.

Besides that, the judge has plenty of reasons to behave the way she has without "being pressured into it by the president" being at the top of the list. Personal bias would be the obvious one, but judges have been known to base their courtroom conduct on expected public reaction. She could even be feeling pressured by local officials. Maybe she's just off her meds. All of this makes significantly more sense than the suggestion that the president is pressuring her into acting the way she has, a suggestion which is not supported by actual evidence, so yes, it is a baseless suggestion. It is not rooted in either logic or facts.


Source showing political interference.

(CNN) -- The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.

Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.

"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."

When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.

It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
Ex-police chief: I upheld my oath
Ex-police chief speaks about Zimmerman
Why did prosecutor, defense use a dummy?
Zimmerman trial standoff over evidence

Zimmerman told police he killed Martin after the teen attacked him. While the evidence at the time corroborated that claim, the ex-chief said, Lee's lead investigator made a recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.

Justice Dept. 'peacekeepers' worked 'Trayvon' rallies, group claims

It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.

"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold your oath."

"That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.

One example involved the 911 tapes, in which neighbors implored dispatchers to send police as a voice in the background screamed for help.

The Sanford police intended to release the tapes once the probe was over, Lee said, because you can't publicize evidence amid an investigation.

Instead, the mayor told him on March 16 the tapes had been released to Martin's family and the public. The family was asked to help identify voices, Lee said, but if police were in charge of the investigation, they wouldn't have presented evidence to a group.

"It should be done individually so there's no influence on the other people in the room," he said. "Then, there's no questions that can be brought up about how (an identification) was obtained or whether it was influenced."
I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity.
Ex-Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee

Releasing the evidence to the public was problematic, as well, because it created the potential for someone to concoct a "story about what they observed when they really didn't observe it," he said.

Martin family attorney Jasmine Rand said she doesn't believe playing the tapes to a room full of people "makes any difference to the outcome of the case."

"We have to remember that that was played for the family in a private room because they were hearing the last moments of their son's life as he cried for help," Rand told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday night. "And I think Sybrina Fulton (Martin's mother) got up and walked out of that room. She didn't sit in there and talk to everybody, because she had a visceral reaction when she heard her son yell for help and she couldn't help him because she knew he was dead."

Lee was placed on paid leave March 22, 2012, after the Sanford City Commission expressed a lack of confidence in him. The same commission rejected his resignation in a 3-2 vote a month later, with dissenting commissioners questioning the fairness of Lee's losing his job.

Two months later, Lee was sacked. City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release, "The police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community."

Lee believes lack of confidence did play a role in his dismissal, he told CNN, but he also believes Bonaparte faced political pressure and terminated him "without cause," which was permitted under his employment contract.

"I upheld my oath," Lee said. "I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity."
Zimmerman trial runs late into night
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Asked whether he would do things differently given the opportunity, the 30-year veteran of law enforcement said there always are things he could change in hindsight, but he stands by the investigation.

At every turn in the 40-minute interview with CNN's Howell, Lee doggedly defended his investigators, saying race never played a role in any decision and that his officers "conducted an unbiased review."

Investigators knew letting Zimmerman walk free for 46 days was an unpopular decision -- and they took abuse for it -- "but they performed professionally. That's the mark of a strong police department."

Lee took issue with the media casting his department as apathetic or lackadaisical in the case.

"A lot of the information that was given out as fact was misinformation," he said. "It was reported in some media that we didn't conduct an investigation for two weeks, but yet in that same media they would show a photograph of a crime scene with crime scene tape, with patrol cars and blue lights and investigators on the scene."

Lee shrugged off the notion that he was hired to clean up racism and other problems in the department. His goal upon becoming chief was to improve professionalism and trust, and he set several goals, all of which were met during his 10-month tenure, he said.

One of his greatest regrets, he said, is that the Zimmerman investigation ultimately shattered his childhood dream to be police chief of the community where he was raised.

"It's a dream of a vision that is going to be unrealized," he said. "I'm at peace with it on most days. I'm a man of faith. But it stings.


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, because this only supports what I already said: there is no evidence that Obama, his administration, or any other federal agent intervened in the proceedings. In this article, Lee mentions a number of local sources that he felt pressured by, which I already acknowledged as a possibility, but he mentions exactly zero sources of pressure beyond that.
Oh I'm just showing there was a political reason to charge Zimmerman. I don't care who did it, it was done though and there should be impeachment of any public representative that did push for it.


Sure, I never said that there wasn't any political pressure involved in this case, just that there's no reason to suggest that political pressure came from any source except locally.


The DOJ starting protests to get Zimmerman arrested doesn't qualify as "non-local," then?


There's no evidence that the DOJ started any protests. There have been conservatives sources that have stretched the DOJ providing security at anti-Zimmerman protests into something else, but surely you're not arguing that the DOJ working to prevent protests from escalating into violence is "political pressure"?

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CaiteeByrd
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Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?


That's what I was saying. He's half hispanic, so they are playing up his white heritage to make them saying it's a racially motivated crime make more sense. If he was half black half hispanic, they wouldn't call him a black hispanic.


Technically, George Zimmermans Maternal Grandfather, as I understand it, was Afro-Peruvian, half Peruvian and half african, if I am remembering right. In any case, George Zimmerman has African Blood too, despite identifying himself as hispanic.

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The DOJ starting protests to get Zimmerman arrested doesn't qualify as "non-local," then?


Here's the link, too. I'm not normally a tinfoil hat person, but this, combined with the judge's behavior conclusively prove a widespread race-based conspiracy to ensure Zimmerman couldn't get a fair trial.

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The DOJ starting protests to get Zimmerman arrested doesn't qualify as "non-local," then?


Here's the link, too. I'm not normally a tinfoil hat person, but this, combined with the judge's behavior conclusively prove a widespread race-based conspiracy to ensure Zimmerman couldn't get a fair trial.


My hat is not tinfoil, it is steel, and looks like this:

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.*
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CaiteeByrd
Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?
Zimmerman's dad is Jewish. Try calling a Jew a white person. They consider themselves a separate race. The state of Israel is all about that.

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Omnileech
Quote:
I find it amusing that you find my simple observations racist and/or paranoid. None of my observation is speculation (save for my predictions of the outcome of the case). The media and our society is guilty of everything I pointed out. Enlighten me on this; when did the term "white-hispanic" become regularly used? For months after the story broke, that's how Zimmy was characterized (and still is in some circles). I've heard terms like African-American, Asian-Amarican, Taiwanese, Russian, Hispanic, Black, White: Never, not one single time, have I heard the term "White-Hispanic". Frankly all these terms are downright stupid because in the end, what are we? Human Beings.


Oh?

Quote:
Our society marked Zimmy guilty of murder FAR before any hard evidence was brought to light.


Speculation. Also false to boot. Most of the hard evidence of the case was apparent from the killing. Things like character assassination of Martin regarding if he's ever had illegal drugs isn't relevant to the issue of whether armed Zimmerman was fearing for his life and killed in self-defense after he stalked and confronted an unarmed child after he was advised to not do that.

http://newsone.com/2001237/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-guilty/

Society isn't so clear-cut now is it?

Quote:
Hell, the moment I heard that stupid term "white hispanic" I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted


Ok, so you're ignorant AND racist. White-hispanic is a classification the Government has used for a very long time. Long before you, or your father, or grandfather were born. Think before writing next time or at least do some goddamn research to avoid looking so ignorant.

Quote:
And my paranoia is justified. Remember the weeks after it was announced that no charges would be filed? I believe it was a certain group of people who ended up violently protesting that decision, looting and vandalizing shops and vehicles as the went.


No, I don't remember that. How many looters and rioters? 1? 5? 10? 100? Prove it.

Quote:
And then either today or yesterday, one of the police agencies down in Florida were urging people not to riot after the verdict. So my logic leads me to believe that there are persons down there that have already threatened violence pending the outcome.


Police usually make such proclamations when there is a highly publicized, sensational court case in progress.

So what is your point that you are trying to make? That it is logical to be suspicious of minorities, specifically Black People, because some people from that ethnic group act poorly?

Quote:
I knew at some point this case was going to get tainted and Zimmerman would be found guilty from something just to placate minorities. Hell, the DA even admited it as the reason charges were filed!


This is bullshit. The DA said no such thing to the public and I dare you to prove otherwise


I think the point the prior poster was making is that while government forms say "Caucasion, hispanic or non-hispanic," when talking in terms of how people refer to themselves, it is either white, or hispanic, and that they are only bringing out the white side of his heritage to lend credence to their theory that the crime was strictly racially motivated.
or the fact that zimmermans dad is white?
Zimmerman's dad is Jewish. Try calling a Jew a white person. They consider themselves a separate race. The state of Israel is all about that.


It's closer to an ethncity than a race.

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