Console Wars

[Phantasy Tokoro]

Gen_Eric_Gui

You keep saying that "Nintendo alienated the developers" which is wholly untrue. Developers develop games for the machine that has the most market share. That's how they make money, by getting their games liscenced on the system that more peopel have, therefore giving them more chances to sell said game.

Nintendo DID alienate their developers with the N64. The catridges were an inferior format to the CD format, which is why so many developers jumped ship from Nintendo to Sony, and the third party selection sucked on the N64. (Among everything else that sucked on the N64.)

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Since there were more people who owned PS2's than owned Gamecubes, more games got put on the PS2.

Correct. There is a guarantee of more sales if you release a game on the PS2.

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It had nothing to do with Nintendo's policy toward developers(Which is actually hells of more open and lenient than Sony's is. Sony CRUSHES it's developers with an iron fist and the SCEA has ridiculous criteria for passing games, like thier policy of not allowing 2D games to be brought over unless hefty sums of cash are paid.)

Proof, plzkthnx.

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Square didn't develop main-numbered games for Gamecube because not as many people had them as had PS2's.

And they didn't develop main-numbered games for the N64 because the PSone offered a better format for their games.

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(Although, why you're worrying about Square I'll never know because their games are generally horribly shitty.)

Which is opinion, not fact. Square's the biggest name in the RPG industry. That is fact.

[Gen_Eric_Gui]

The proof of SCEA's shitastic rules on games can be referenced to the debacle with Working Designs. They wanted to put out all the Growlanser games, and the new Goemon game, which were all 2D titles. SCEA told them no. And kept telling them no, until Working Designs was forced to shut down completely because they refused to pay/eventually couldn't pay the money to release the games here. They only got the two Growlanser games out that they did because they were getting desperate for cash near the end, so they paid the money, but went backrupt.

This is also the reason why there are countless numbers of really, really great 2D games that Japanese companies know would sell here, but they can't port becasue they can't pay the fines. Only the big hitters like Sammy Studios and Capcom can pay the money to port 2D fighters and stuff.

God I hate those SCEA bastards.

I could link an article directly but it's really late right now and it's readily available at RPGamer and what.

As for the N64 comment, we were talking about Gamecube and why IT had a small library. If we had been talking about the N64, I would have mentioned that. But we weren't, so bringing up that point has no bearing on the conversation.

Same goes for your other N64-based comments. The N64's "problems"
has absolutley no bearing on what happened with the GC. Not that the N64 HAD many problems(If you can say the first party games were bad, well, I pity you)

(Square's game actaully do suck big time. I have met maybe three people who have played a Suikoden game and who iwll still admit that FF is any good at all comparatively. Same goes for Shadow Hearts, NIS saga, and several other game series. FF is trash. It's the shitty romance novel of games)

[Phantasy Tokoro]

Gen_Eric_Gui

The proof of SCEA's shitastic rules on games can be referenced to the debacle with Working Designs. They wanted to put out all the Growlanser games, and the new Goemon game, which were all 2D titles. SCEA told them no. And kept telling them no, until Working Designs was forced to shut down completely because they refused to pay/eventually couldn't pay the money to release the games here. They only got the two Growlanser games out that they did because they were getting desperate for cash near the end, so they paid the money, but went backrupt.

While I do remember the Working Designs debacle, I dont' exactly remember it being for htat reason. Can you provide proof of these fines?

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As for the N64 comment, we were talking about Gamecube and why IT had a small library. If we had been talking about the N64, I would have mentioned that. But we weren't, so bringing up that point has no bearing on the conversation.

To look as to why the GCN had a small third party, you have to look at the N64. That's where it started.

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Not that the N64 HAD many problems(If you can say the first party games were bad, well, I pity you)

The N64 DID have many problems. Cartridges, crappy game selection (in my opinion), and the worst controller I've ever used.

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(Square's game actaully do suck big time. I have met maybe three people who have played a Suikoden game and who iwll still admit that FF is any good at all comparatively. Same goes for Shadow Hearts, NIS saga, and several other game series. FF is trash. It's the shitty romance novel of games)

And that's your opinion. I've played some really great non-FF Square games. I've tried Suikoden, while the story is good, I just cannot get into the fighting system. My favourite series is actually from Enix, and that is Star Ocean.

[Rdragon88]

ps3 is god off all other systems and gun for ps2 kicks butt man

[Phantasy Tokoro]

Rdragon88

ps3 is god off all other systems and gun for ps2 kicks butt man

Please take any and all discussion of the PS3 to the appropriate sticky.

[Wrath of Fenrir]

Gen_Eric_Gui

The proof of SCEA's shitastic rules on games can be referenced to the debacle with Working Designs. They wanted to put out all the Growlanser games, and the new Goemon game, which were all 2D titles. SCEA told them no. And kept telling them no, until Working Designs was forced to shut down completely because they refused to pay/eventually couldn't pay the money to release the games here. They only got the two Growlanser games out that they did because they were getting desperate for cash near the end, so they paid the money, but went backrupt.

This is also the reason why there are countless numbers of really, really great 2D games that Japanese companies know would sell here, but they can't port becasue they can't pay the fines. Only the big hitters like Sammy Studios and Capcom can pay the money to port 2D fighters and stuff.

God I hate those SCEA bastards.

I could link an article directly but it's really late right now and it's readily available at RPGamer and what.

As for the N64 comment, we were talking about Gamecube and why IT had a small library. If we had been talking about the N64, I would have mentioned that. But we weren't, so bringing up that point has no bearing on the conversation.

Same goes for your other N64-based comments. The N64's "problems"
has absolutley no bearing on what happened with the GC. Not that the N64 HAD many problems(If you can say the first party games were bad, well, I pity you)

(Square's game actaully do suck big time. I have met maybe three people who have played a Suikoden game and who iwll still admit that FF is any good at all comparatively. Same goes for Shadow Hearts, NIS saga, and several other game series. FF is trash. It's the shitty romance novel of games)

the reason sony denide many 2d games was that they wanted to push the 3d abilitys of the the ps1 and not continue with the old 2d style of the time.

the reason the gamecube had so few titles is becasue of the big mastake that was the n64 cartrage thing. Devs lost trust with nintendo.
the rest is just your opinion so there no need ot comment

[Wrath of Fenrir]

Langlen

Gen_Eric_Gui

The proof of SCEA's shitastic rules on games can be referenced to the debacle with Working Designs. They wanted to put out all the Growlanser games, and the new Goemon game, which were all 2D titles. SCEA told them no. And kept telling them no, until Working Designs was forced to shut down completely because they refused to pay/eventually couldn't pay the money to release the games here. They only got the two Growlanser games out that they did because they were getting desperate for cash near the end, so they paid the money, but went backrupt.

While I do remember the Working Designs debacle, I dont' exactly remember it being for htat reason. Can you provide proof of these fines?

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As for the N64 comment, we were talking about Gamecube and why IT had a small library. If we had been talking about the N64, I would have mentioned that. But we weren't, so bringing up that point has no bearing on the conversation.

To look as to why the GCN had a small third party, you have to look at the N64. That's where it started.

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Not that the N64 HAD many problems(If you can say the first party games were bad, well, I pity you)

The N64 DID have many problems. Cartridges, crappy game selection (in my opinion), and the worst controller I've ever used.

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(Square's game actaully do suck big time. I have met maybe three people who have played a Suikoden game and who iwll still admit that FF is any good at all comparatively. Same goes for Shadow Hearts, NIS saga, and several other game series. FF is trash. It's the shitty romance novel of games)

And that's your opinion. I've played some really great non-FF Square games. I've tried Suikoden, while the story is good, I just cannot get into the fighting system. My favourite series is actually from Enix, and that is Star Ocean.

cronos cross

[Gen_Eric_Gui]

Like I said, there's an article about it at RPGamer. I'm too tired to find it ATM. But SCEA specifically makes it far, far harder to get a game released here if it's 2D. That's why, for instance, none of NIS's Puppet Princess games were released here. Yet Big Rigs, quite simply the worst game ever conceived since E.T. for tha Atari, got a big "GO AHEAD!" from them. Puppet Princess games are 2D. Big Rigs was 3D.


As for the N64 thing, no, N64's problems had no impact on developer's reasons for not fully supporting the GC. Comapnies don't look at systems and say "Oh, the LAST system them ade used cartridges. Even though this machine uses a superior disc format, is easier to program for, and is more powerful than the others on the market, I'm not going to develop for it because the LAST system they made used Carts and was hard to develop for."

That doesn't even make sense! The sole reason developers didn't fully support the GC was because of lower sales compared to PS2. That's it.

(N64 controller was really, really good for me. I loved that damn thing. Were you holding it correctly? For analog stick use you were supposed to hold it by the middle stick, which made holding it almost no different from holding a PS controller with extended handles. Also, carts, to me, means no loading times and no need for memory cards. This is bad for developers, but I don't know why it's a problem for YOU.)

(Also, Square makes Romancing SaGa, which is really their only saving grace in my eyes. See, even I actually like one Square game! But I still think the company as a whole is crap. Enix used to be good, but they suck now. Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile OWNED me, but SO3 was just awful.)

(Just because someone doesn't say IMHO at the end of every sentence doesn't mean they don't already know what they're saying is an opinion, but thanks for announcing to everyone else which part of my post was an opinion. I was well aware of it thnx.)

[Rdragon88]

gun kicks it man, xbox and 360 there is no difference at all well not much.

[Strike FreedomX]

Rdragon88

gun kicks it man, xbox and 360 there is no difference at all well not much.

Take your crap to the other sticky.

[Phantasy Tokoro]

Gen_Eric_Gui

As for the N64 thing, no, N64's problems had no impact on developer's reasons for not fully supporting the GC. Comapnies don't look at systems and say "Oh, the LAST system them ade used cartridges. Even though this machine uses a superior disc format, is easier to program for, and is more powerful than the others on the market, I'm not going to develop for it because the LAST system they made used Carts and was hard to develop for."

Yes, yes it did. The developers jumped shipped ot the Sony consoles, therefore their franchises were better known on the Sony consoles, therefore that continued into the next generation.

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N64 controller was really, really good for me.

That's your perogative. 3nodding

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Were you holding it correctly?

I don't see how I could hold it incorrectly.

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For analog stick use you were supposed to hold it by the middle stick, which made holding it almost no different from holding a PS controller with extended handles.

It's more of the fact that the controller itself felt as if it was developed by a shitty third party. The analog stick sucked a**, the buttons stuck much easier than any controller I've ever used. The overall setup just felt way too cheap.

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Also, carts, to me, means no loading times

Which is one of the few things I give the N64 over hte PSone. HOwever, I really don't care about loading times. THey don't phase me.

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and no need for memory cards.

For most games, yes. Some games do require memory cards on the N64.

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This is bad for developers

How so?

[Gen_Eric_Gui]

Well, seeing as how Capcom had no problem putting RE on the GC despite the fact that it was primarily on Sony consoles to that point, and several other games/series getting games on there but not on PS2(Skies of Arcadia, Namco's Tales series, etc.), the fact that some series became "Popular" on the PS doesn't mean s**t. The only reason more companies didn't ship to the GC was because of lower sales numbers. I'm telling you, that's it. I've looked into this.

And sorry about the end there. I am just so ridiculously tired right now I got two trains of thought mixed up. Putting the games on cartridges is bad for developers(Which, not really. I mean, they'd been doing it on the SNES and Genesis for years! What was stopping them? And besides, it's the same code, basically, it's just that CD's hold cinematic files a little better. And of course, Capcom put all the cinemas on the N64 version of RE2, which shoed it could be done there, too.), I wanted to know exactly why you thought it was bad for YOU.

[Caustic Fox]

Gen_Eric_Gui

Well, seeing as how Capcom had no problem putting RE on the GC despite the fact that it was primarily on Sony consoles to that point, and several other games/series getting games on there but not on PS2(Skies of Arcadia, Namco's Tales series, etc.), the fact that some series became "Popular" on the PS doesn't mean s**t. The only reason more companies didn't ship to the GC was because of lower sales numbers. I'm telling you, that's it. I've looked into this.

And sorry about the end there. I am just so ridiculously tired right now I got two trains of thought mixed up. Putting the games on cartridges is bad for developers(Which, not really. I mean, they'd been doing it on the SNES and Genesis for years! What was stopping them? And besides, it's the same code, basically, it's just that CD's hold cinematic files a little better. And of course, Capcom put all the cinemas on the N64 version of RE2, which shoed it could be done there, too.), I wanted to know exactly why you thought it was bad for YOU.

It's accually simple really. It is true that the carts had the same code as the discs had, however the reason that the carts had failed to the discs is, the carts had lacking in memory space. The developers just couldn't fit the large game files on to the carts. That is why the carts had died. (And besides, why would you want to use 20+ year old techonolegy for the cool, new games? It's time to move on. We're in the 21'st century for sake!) Simple as that. 3nodding

[Gen_Eric_Gui]

Um, duh. I didn't address that because I felt that was common knowledge among all of us here.

But yet, a single N64 cart can hold 2 CD's worth of info, as Capcom so valiently proved with RE2. Most games weren't even that long. There shouldn't have been any problem fitting most games onto an N64 cart. The only gaems I can think of offhand are Wing Wommander 4, and the FF series which is crap anyway(DO I REALLY HAVE TO SAY IMHO HERE? I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS MY OPINION)

[flame_12]

the psp is way better than the ds because the psp can take pictures, get movies, download songs, and play games.