Do men really have a say in abortion?

[Mei tsuki7]

Shouting Fox

Mei tsuki7

Shouting Fox

Mei tsuki7

Men should not be able to control what a woman does with her body. BUT the father should be able to abdicate all responsibility for that child if they want. In other words they should be able to legally "abort" the child. Women should also be forced to tell the father about the child if they are not going to abort. They should not be able to just force the kid on the father if the father does not want the child.

The lack of personal responsibility in this thread is ******** appalling.

If men are personally responsible for having sex then so are women and abortion should be illegal. It's a simple as that.

Plus honestly, there are 3 types of birth control for men. Abstinence, vasectomy and condoms. Women have a lot more including hormonal, which comes in the form of pills, shots, patches and inserts, spermicides, vaginal sponges, diaphragms, hysterectomies and vaginal condoms. This means that technically getting pregnant is more the fault of the woman then the man because the man took all the measures he could (other than not having sex and having a medical operation) while the woman did not. There's also the fact that some women have been known to flat out lie to the man about taking birth control to trap a man.

These are things that ought to be considered prior to engaging in sex. I, personally, would not stick my d**k in a woman that I wouldn't want to bear my children. It's not just a matter of personal responsibility, but a matter of being picky about the other half of the genetic material that my potential children will be born with.

From my understanding, all forms of birth control come with roughly a 99% success rate of deterring pregnancy, save permanent measures such as vasectomy or tubes tying. In that sense, having sex a hundred times is essentially playing pregnancy roulette. I hope this isn't enough of an exaggeration to be an ineffective explanation of my feelings on it.

The idea that a woman can do with her body what she wants and no one should have an opinion on it is just feminist bullshit to me. I love women, to the point of not getting along well with men. However, the idea that two people would enter an act understanding the possible repercussions and then simply shirk the consequences out of simple inconvenience, be they a woman who aborts the child or a man who leaves the child, is sickening for me. I'm not even of the opinion that a fetus is a living organism unto itself, but I feel as though this issue is representative of the greater issue in America, which is Americans not manning the ******** up.

Actually no, all forms of birth control do not have a 99% success rate of deterring pregnancy. This is why we need better sex education...

Quote:

Barrier methods, which include the male condom, female condom, diaphragm, spermicide, the cervical cap, and the sponge (for those who have not given birth) also yield fair typical user success rates between 71 to 85 percent.

-Of every 100 people who use one of these barrier methods for a year, 15 to 29 will have an unintended pregnancy

Birth control pills (both combination and progestin-only) and other prescription options such as The Patch and The NuvaRing tend to have a high typical user success rates of around 92 percent.

-This means that out of 100 women who use one of these methods for a year, 8 will become pregnant

The ParaGard IUD (Copper T 380A) , the Mirena IUD, Implanon, Depo Provera Injections, Tubal Ligation, and Vasectomy tend to be the most highly effective methods of birth control.

-These all have typical user rates of 97 to 99 percent
-This means that out of 100 people who use these methods for a year, 3 or less will become pregnant

I actually do agree with you in a lot of ways. BUT I also think of the child and how unwanted children tend to have pretty horrible lives. Even if given up for adoption.

The best thing is honestly to have better sex education. It has been proven that better sex ed leads to less chance of pregnancy. But without good sex ed forcing a woman to have a child when she was not knowledgeable about the issue at hand is just wrong in my mind. Ignorance should not be punished but changed to knowledge.

[Jovian Temple]

Mei tsuki7

Actually no, all forms of birth control do not have a 99% success rate of deterring pregnancy. This is why we need better sex education...

Whoa, definitely looked over the in my proof-reading. I had meant to throw an "at best" or something of the nature, but my brain works faster than my fingers. Thanks for the correction.

[Mei tsuki7]

Shouting Fox

Mei tsuki7

Actually no, all forms of birth control do not have a 99% success rate of deterring pregnancy. This is why we need better sex education...

Whoa, definitely looked over the in my proof-reading. I had meant to throw an "at best" or something of the nature, but my brain works faster than my fingers. Thanks for the correction.

No problem. The thing with birth control is the ones that are 99% effective cost a s**t ton of money and surgery to get. Most people, kids especially, do not know the rates of pregnancy for each type of birth control. If you flat out say to people "If you only use condoms you have a 15 to 29 percent chance of getting pregnant. That means, probability wise, that if you have sex 100 times you will get pregnant between 15 to 29 times. Or if you have sex ten times you will get pregnant between 1 and 3 times." then they might get it a little better.

Now non invasive methods can be used to prevent birth upwards of 99% but only if used in conjunction with each other. Personally I think male condom, BCPs and a diaphragm/cervical cap with spermicide is the way to go. That should leave about 3% chance of pregnancy.

Now if everyone knew all this and were able to easily obtain the different Birth Control methods then I'd be perfectly fine with not allowing abortion except in rape, incest or to save the mother. Because then it's your own damn fault if you got pregnant because then you would know the actual risk of pregnancy. Not the belief now a days that condoms mean you can never get pregnant.

NOTE: This is also a lesson for those who have no idea about the effectiveness or different kinds of birth control.

[Camillo]

ice queen in a dark tower

Camillo

ice queen in a dark tower

no, and the its my child too argument is ridiculous
really, all you gave is a sperm cell
if a sperm cell really means that much to a guy then idk what to say

Nice double standard. Like men dont want kids.

hey thanks for putting words in my mouth really appreciate it brah
i never said men dont want kids, but crying about how the kid is a part of them too is just stupid beyond words lol

Youre also aware that the egg cell is just one cell, and that the male determines biological gender? And half of the genetic material? Learn you a science book, damn.

[stealthmongoose]

stealthmongoose

ice queen in a dark tower

stealthmongoose

ice queen in a dark tower

stealthmongoose

ice queen in a dark tower

hey thanks for putting words in my mouth really appreciate it brah
i never said men dont want kids, but crying about how the kid is a 'part of them' too is just stupid beyond words lol

Are we measuring the ability to raise a child on how much blood is sacrificed to do it? Is there some sort of flesh tax that i'm not aware of when it comes to knowing whether or not you have the resources necessary to pay for a child's tuition, their food, clothing, vaccinations if you're stupid?

This is in no way to degrade the sacrifice EVERY woman and birthgiver in nature makes when they offer their own bodies as a carrying medium for children, but how much of that is actually relevant to the ability to guarantee that child quality of life?

I think your proposition is a s**t standard beyond the initial possibilities of birth complication and danger to the birth giver. After that point there's pretty much an even keel on child rearing if you do it right.

are you kidding me
this discussion was never EVER about a person's ability to raise a child, i dont even know where you found that in my post lol
im talking about dads who whine about how they should have the right to force the woman to give birth because 1/100000000000000000000th of the cells inside them planted itself in the womans egg lol

I have to disagree on principal. One's ability to raise a child is directly factored in your decision on whether or not to have it, and that's not a matter of gender.

Unless you're an unfit parent, then you're more likely to be concerned about keeping score between you and the man or woman that you're having the child with.

I'm literally taking your argument, telling you how crappy it is, and shifting the conversation towards the more important point of non-biased life accounting decisions regarding the child itself.

no, youre literally taking my argument, ignoring it and going off on your own fruity rant lol
what i said has nothing to do with what youre trying to say

I understand your argument. You're saying that women should be the sole decision makers in the process because they are the carriers of the child. I am stating that this is fallacy, because that alone is not enough to warrant sole authority over the potential life of the child in a consensual relationship.

That is why it's a superior point and a counterpoint to your argument that I bring up the equality of that birth labor to the potential ability to raise the child, which in many cases is a two-person job. It only makes sense that two people within a consensual relationship should be allowed to make the ultimate decision together.

In terms of the birth delivery process, you're absolutely right, women do suffer more than men. If the birth is the result of a consensual union though, they should both have equal say in the child's livelihood, ESPECIALLY if they can contribute to the child's well-being on an equal basis.

My opponent has bowed out from my argumentive point, preferring to keep the subject on personal suffering on the part of the birthgiver.

I will leave this point open for any who wish to discuss it rationally