Short, simple analysis of anime by a situationist

[Umesono]

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

[Brother Louie]

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Dangruff Scott

> 2012
> Still attacking entertainment

I really ******** hate my generation. Now I wish I could apply for a job as a debris collector so I may get away from this stinking planet.

What is the value of entertainment? I find a difference between entertainment and expression. Just think about what entertainment means. Entertainment is a method of occupying boredom. Would entertainment have a purpose in a world free of boredom?

That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?

Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.

Kid. Are you still a virgin?

Last time I checked I was. Now, would you elaborate how that affects my argument. A great majority of people on here are still virgins. The main reason this occurs is due to a product of social isolation. I've been a socially stunted hermit all my life. My motive for provoking a discussion is to gradually find an end to our means our separation.

What's the cause of this social isolation? You need to find a way to balance watching anime, and doing other stuff besides watching anime.

Maybe I'm the lucky few who been through a lot and watched a lot of anime.

[TheSituationist]

-_ChickenBiscuitJr_-cbjr

So your telling me to stay away from the TV completely...
Yea, not happening, I rather like where I'm at in life and I do deal with life, anime is like a vacation when you can't have a REAL vacation.

What if life was a vacation?

[TheSituationist]

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

[TheSituationist]

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?

Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.

Kid. Are you still a virgin?

Last time I checked I was. Now, would you elaborate how that affects my argument. A great majority of people on here are still virgins. The main reason this occurs is due to a product of social isolation. I've been a socially stunted hermit all my life. My motive for provoking a discussion is to gradually find an end to our means our separation.

What's the cause of this social isolation? You need to find a way to balance watching anime, and doing other stuff besides watching anime.

Maybe I'm the lucky few who been through a lot and watched a lot of anime.

You are certainly a rare case. Not to say that anime for sure causes isolation but it sure as hell encourages it. To afford to buy alot of anime you'll have to work, unless your a pirate like me. So an anime fan will spend most of their life either working or watching anime. Both activities encourage isolation. Anime is not a social form of media as say watching a football (both kinds) game/match. They'll have very little time to socialize and when they decide to, they'll probably do it on the internet with sites like Gaia and wherever these kids go these days. However, they often are hostile because they spend very little time with other people. But it's better than none I guess.

[bunila]

so what?

[Umesono]

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

[Brother Louie]

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

TheSituationist

Brother Louie

That's horrible. How can you know what's good if you don't know what's bad. How can you know what's entertaining if you don't know what's boring?

Could you refer to sex as entertainment? No. Maybe pornography. Entertainment is the indirect experience that promises a false solution to boredom in order to commodify our lives. Entertainment is created by the same society that fosters boredom. I will give you my operational definitions of "entertainment" and "boredom". Boredom is the consequence of the absence of freedom. Entertainment is the means created to defeat boredom.

Kid. Are you still a virgin?

Last time I checked I was. Now, would you elaborate how that affects my argument. A great majority of people on here are still virgins. The main reason this occurs is due to a product of social isolation. I've been a socially stunted hermit all my life. My motive for provoking a discussion is to gradually find an end to our means our separation.

What's the cause of this social isolation? You need to find a way to balance watching anime, and doing other stuff besides watching anime.

Maybe I'm the lucky few who been through a lot and watched a lot of anime.

You are certainly a rare case. Not to say that anime for sure causes isolation but it sure as hell encourages it. To afford to buy alot of anime you'll have to work, unless your a pirate like me. So an anime fan will spend most of their life either working or watching anime. Both activities encourage isolation. Anime is not a social form of media as say watching a football (both kinds) game/match. They'll have very little time to socialize and when they decide to, they'll probably do it on the internet with sites like Gaia and wherever these kids go these days. However, they often are hostile because they spend very little time with other people. But it's better than none I guess.

I pirate and I buy anime. And you don't need a lot of money to do random stuff. Just need to be smart on what you buy.
Food, if FDA approves it, it's good for me. and yeah I try those fancy restaurants once in a while.
Gym, 15 bucks per month ain't bad.
Fighting, did this when I was a kid and most gang like the crips don't use guns in my area.
Racing, one of the things I haven't done yet.
Romance, got a girlfriend.
Traveling, Haven't done this either.
Video games, I'm not ready for Evo

[TheSituationist]

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience? Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do enjoy video games. But then again, John Zerzan, a prominent anarcho-primitivist was caught was Smucker's jelly. However, I would rather be a world-traveling, free-loving hippie. The only problem is that I am a slave. The bourgeoise are more effective at getting you to work by getting you to stay in one place. I do not mind people watching anime. Perhaps I mind enjoy an anime or two myself in the near future. However, if you prefer anime to directly lived life, shame on you.

[Umesono]

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience? Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do enjoy video games. But then again, John Zerzan, a prominent anarcho-primitivist was caught was Smucker's jelly. However, I would rather be a world-traveling, free-loving hippie. The only problem is that I am a slave. The bourgeoise are more effective at getting you to work by getting you to stay in one place. I do not mind people watching anime. Perhaps I mind enjoy an anime or two myself in the near future. However, if you prefer anime to directly lived life, shame on you.

Sure there's not substitute for real life experience. And I'm sure there are some minority out there who live vicariously through various mediums of entertainment including anime. But entertainment also serves a purpose of escapism. The escapist quality of entertainment today revolves around that fact that we can for while distract ourselves from the stresses or issues in our own lives and be immersed in someone else's plot or the fact while I may never want or be able to experience X I can get a sense of what X would be like via entertainment (such as movies, animes or music). I don't think there's anything wrong with this, if we didn't have a means of escapism in Industrialized culture we'd likely all go insane with stress.

Also I think today's culture is a lot more complicated than the bourgeoise-proletariat dichotomy used in the past. You're not a slave by the way. Even though there is the macro structure of our society that has certain institutions in place that perpetuate the system we have now, you also have your individual free will and agency to decide if you want to continue with the system or not. There isn't much stopping you from saving up some money and quit you job and go do your traveling hippie thing. You can't deny to some degree you are actively choosing to stay within and participate in this system. And to some degree, yes it is because we believe/ or actually do need certain material things to function in this society but you obviously cannot say you are brainwashed into it. At the end of the day, you have your agency make decisions according to how you see fit. Don't get me wrong, I would actually love a simpler way of life but the fact is I wake up every day and make the choice to continue in this society as it exists. And if a little entertainment can make me feel better about that personal dilemma for a while, then I'll take it.

[Umesono]

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Or, call me crazy, anime is part of the larger story-telling aspect of human culture?

You seem to have made some huge generalizations about anime that just aren't valid across all animes.

Also how is you argument specific to anime? It sounds like it could apply to just about any entertainment medium like books or hollywood. Becoming interested or even emotionally invested into a story, regardless of the medium, can be an opportunity for escapism. And what's so wrong with that? That's just part of the human condition. It allows us a moment of relief from the emotions we have about our own lives or even more importantly I think allows us to experience the creative imagination of someone else, possibly breeding new creativity within us.

You completely sound like one of those people who have just come back from some sort of lecture about how terrible society is and is misguidedly imposing that onto one aspect of our entertainment culture. Here's the reality champ, most things in our culture is commodified. But that doesn't mean that at an individual at the micro level, can't find something true and meaningful to them in it.

Here's a tip from me to you, stay in school and don't think you explain complicated, multi-level concepts in one paragraph.

If you've actually read what I've said, you wouldn't accuse me of attacking just anime. As I've said, romanticism exists across all cultures. If you want to understand the commodification of culture, perhaps I would recommend Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm

I'm not requiring that you read it, as I have not even read it all the way through between life, doom, and schoolwork, however, it is a very helpful reference. And yes, there can be meaning in entertainment. However, entertainment is what it is. Justin Bieber is entertainment music. Aphex Twin is expressive music. Who would you rather listen to? The purpose of entertainment primarily is to sell s**t.

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience?

Also what are we communicating about if not our experiences? All we have as individuals are our experiences (emotional, physical, etc). And not everyone has the same experiences of everyone else. And we are naturally curious and wanting to experience something at some level at the very least. Maybe it will inspire someone to do the real thing.

[TheSituationist]

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience? Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do enjoy video games. But then again, John Zerzan, a prominent anarcho-primitivist was caught was Smucker's jelly. However, I would rather be a world-traveling, free-loving hippie. The only problem is that I am a slave. The bourgeoise are more effective at getting you to work by getting you to stay in one place. I do not mind people watching anime. Perhaps I mind enjoy an anime or two myself in the near future. However, if you prefer anime to directly lived life, shame on you.

Sure there's not substitute for real life experience. And I'm sure there are some minority out there who live vicariously through various mediums of entertainment including anime. But entertainment also serves a purpose of escapism. The escapist quality of entertainment today revolves around that fact that we can for while distract ourselves from the stresses or issues in our own lives and be immersed in someone else's plot or the fact while I may never want or be able to experience X I can get a sense of what X would be like via entertainment (such as movies, animes or music). I don't think there's anything wrong with this, if we didn't have a means of escapism in Industrialized culture we'd likely all go insane with stress.

Also I think today's culture is a lot more complicated than the bourgeoise-proletariat dichotomy used in the past. You're not a slave by the way. Even though there is the macro structure of our society that has certain institutions in place that perpetuate the system we have now, you also have your individual free will and agency to decide if you want to continue with the system or not. There isn't much stopping you from saving up some money and quit you job and go do your traveling hippie thing. You can't deny to some degree you are actively choosing to stay within and participate in this system. And to some degree, yes it is because we believe/ or actually do need certain material things to function in this society but you obviously cannot say you are brainwashed into it. At the end of the day, you have your agency make decisions according to how you see fit. Don't get me wrong, I would actually love a simpler way of life but the fact is I wake up every day and make the choice to continue in this society as it exists. And if a little entertainment can make me feel better about that personal dilemma for a while, then I'll take it.

Of course you could just resist society. But that would create isolation which the end of it is the very reason for resisting society. It wouldn't change s**t either. Capitalism was the thing Marx hated the very most of all, however, he didn't just leave it. He tried to change it.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1895/settlement.htm
Perhaps some relevant information. It's not too long, it's only about slightly longer than everything I've said in this discussion so far.

[Umesono]

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Personally I disagree with you on that last sentiment. I don't think the primary purpose of entertainment is to sell s**t. While that aspect of entertainment may have become more salient in Industrialized cultures I don't buy that. If the primary purpose was to sell s**t, then why would anyone sincerely listen to music or go see a movie? I think that sentiment is insulting to human nature. If you look at the history of entertainment from way back when, no one was buying commodified goods. Entertainment began as a means of social cohesion and preservation of culture. Entertainment is so inextricably tied with culture. So I think your argument would do better if you directed it towards a criticism of Western culture and what we have come to value as a society. Entertainment is simply a reflection of cultural values; you know the saying art imitates life? Also I think you need to address how important entertainment is to social living and cohesion. If we didn't have shared entertainment of some kind, we wouldn't have a ton to talk about or as good a means to relate to each other. And finally you leave out the importance of creative expression in entertainment.

Oh and why did you post this here in the Anime forum if you argument is intended to be more general? This should be moved to another section like Entertainment, Lifestyle or Extended Discussion.

If entertainment was meant to preserve culture then maybe entertainment wouldn't contain such romanticism. I think the elegies from the dark ages were good at telling things the way they really were. Romance novels and romantic comedies are sure as ******** not accurate depictions of life. And many weeabos think Japan is so happy because of its depiction in anime.

I started the conversation in the anime section because I wanted to discuss specifically anime. The discussion has already been done with other forms of entertainment. However, I don't think anime was a legit big deal when Guy Debord was at the head of the situationist movement.

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience? Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do enjoy video games. But then again, John Zerzan, a prominent anarcho-primitivist was caught was Smucker's jelly. However, I would rather be a world-traveling, free-loving hippie. The only problem is that I am a slave. The bourgeoise are more effective at getting you to work by getting you to stay in one place. I do not mind people watching anime. Perhaps I mind enjoy an anime or two myself in the near future. However, if you prefer anime to directly lived life, shame on you.

Sure there's not substitute for real life experience. And I'm sure there are some minority out there who live vicariously through various mediums of entertainment including anime. But entertainment also serves a purpose of escapism. The escapist quality of entertainment today revolves around that fact that we can for while distract ourselves from the stresses or issues in our own lives and be immersed in someone else's plot or the fact while I may never want or be able to experience X I can get a sense of what X would be like via entertainment (such as movies, animes or music). I don't think there's anything wrong with this, if we didn't have a means of escapism in Industrialized culture we'd likely all go insane with stress.

Also I think today's culture is a lot more complicated than the bourgeoise-proletariat dichotomy used in the past. You're not a slave by the way. Even though there is the macro structure of our society that has certain institutions in place that perpetuate the system we have now, you also have your individual free will and agency to decide if you want to continue with the system or not. There isn't much stopping you from saving up some money and quit you job and go do your traveling hippie thing. You can't deny to some degree you are actively choosing to stay within and participate in this system. And to some degree, yes it is because we believe/ or actually do need certain material things to function in this society but you obviously cannot say you are brainwashed into it. At the end of the day, you have your agency make decisions according to how you see fit. Don't get me wrong, I would actually love a simpler way of life but the fact is I wake up every day and make the choice to continue in this society as it exists. And if a little entertainment can make me feel better about that personal dilemma for a while, then I'll take it.

Of course you could just resist society. But that would create isolation which the end of it is the very reason for resisting society. It wouldn't change s**t either. Capitalism was the thing Marx hated the very most of all, however, he didn't just leave it. He tried to change it.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1895/settlement.htm
Perhaps some relevant information. It's not too long, it's only about slightly longer than everything I've said in this discussion so far.

Now you're talking like there's only one type of society. I meant what is stopping you from moving to a different country or region where there no capitalism? Even in socialist countries there is entertainment. And frankly look at the past societies that have tried socialism, didn't turn out too well did they? Not saying capitalist societies don't have their problems, but socialism is harder to employ successfully. And frankly, on a personal note I would never go for outright socialism. If you think capitalism is controlling you have no idea what socialism can and has lead to.

[TheSituationist]

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

TheSituationist

Umesono

Entertainment originally was intended and does preserve culture. Specifically cultural ideals which is why there often is a element of romanticism. Like just look at the story telling culture around Greek mythology. I doesn't get more romantic than that but at the same time those stories serve as indicators or what the culture valued at that time.

Granted some modern day romantic novels/comedies leave a lot to be wanted but there are some great ones out there than have creativity and thought behind them and people can relate to them because they say something about the human condition. And who knows, maybe some people can relate to those silly, purely-for-enjoyment romantic comedies. Who care's if they're accurate or not and I don't think any one person has the right to say what someone else should enjoy or not. Just because aspects of our modern day entertainment are commodified, doesn't mean the whole thing is. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

Also in regards to your weeabos thing and people who make misconceptions about Japan or whatever based on anime, you have to remember a lot of those people are young kids. Give them a break, most will grow out of it. I don't know if you've noticed by at certain age, kids love to become obsessed and totally immersed in something from the entertainment culture. Also I don't think the creators or animes always intend to send a message about Japanese culture via the anime, so if you can watch anime (as I feel I do now) with a little more maturity than a young kid, I think you can safely enjoy them for what they are. By and large I think most people can enjoy anime responsibly.

You do have a very good point. Personally, I feel expression should be free. I feel every single god damn aspect of life should be free. However, I want expression to be a means of communication rather than a means of experience. In a society where direct experience exists, why would there be a need for proxy experience? Perhaps I am a bit of a hypocrite because I do enjoy video games. But then again, John Zerzan, a prominent anarcho-primitivist was caught was Smucker's jelly. However, I would rather be a world-traveling, free-loving hippie. The only problem is that I am a slave. The bourgeoise are more effective at getting you to work by getting you to stay in one place. I do not mind people watching anime. Perhaps I mind enjoy an anime or two myself in the near future. However, if you prefer anime to directly lived life, shame on you.

Sure there's not substitute for real life experience. And I'm sure there are some minority out there who live vicariously through various mediums of entertainment including anime. But entertainment also serves a purpose of escapism. The escapist quality of entertainment today revolves around that fact that we can for while distract ourselves from the stresses or issues in our own lives and be immersed in someone else's plot or the fact while I may never want or be able to experience X I can get a sense of what X would be like via entertainment (such as movies, animes or music). I don't think there's anything wrong with this, if we didn't have a means of escapism in Industrialized culture we'd likely all go insane with stress.

Also I think today's culture is a lot more complicated than the bourgeoise-proletariat dichotomy used in the past. You're not a slave by the way. Even though there is the macro structure of our society that has certain institutions in place that perpetuate the system we have now, you also have your individual free will and agency to decide if you want to continue with the system or not. There isn't much stopping you from saving up some money and quit you job and go do your traveling hippie thing. You can't deny to some degree you are actively choosing to stay within and participate in this system. And to some degree, yes it is because we believe/ or actually do need certain material things to function in this society but you obviously cannot say you are brainwashed into it. At the end of the day, you have your agency make decisions according to how you see fit. Don't get me wrong, I would actually love a simpler way of life but the fact is I wake up every day and make the choice to continue in this society as it exists. And if a little entertainment can make me feel better about that personal dilemma for a while, then I'll take it.

Of course you could just resist society. But that would create isolation which the end of it is the very reason for resisting society. It wouldn't change s**t either. Capitalism was the thing Marx hated the very most of all, however, he didn't just leave it. He tried to change it.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/kropotkin-peter/1895/settlement.htm
Perhaps some relevant information. It's not too long, it's only about slightly longer than everything I've said in this discussion so far.

Now you're talking like there's only one type of society. I meant what is stopping you from moving to a different country or region where there no capitalism? Even in socialist countries there is entertainment. And frankly look at the past societies that have tried socialism, didn't turn out too well did they? Not saying capitalist societies don't have their problems, but socialism is harder to employ successfully. And frankly, on a personal note I would never go for outright socialism. If you think capitalism is controlling you have no idea what socialism can and has lead to.

Never said I liked that variety of state socialism. I hate Stalin's variety of communism about as much as I hate our own society. You see, I am an anarchist. I believe in the system of ANARCHO-communism. But there is no such place I can move to. Somalia hasn't fully realized the power of mutual aid and how it can fix up that hellhole and set an example for the rest of the world. Exploitation not only comes from our bosses but also politicians of any sort. Had Russia foregone the Lenin step, maybe the country wouldn't have had all its poverty due to the Russian Civil War and the Cold War.

[Sai X Kaitou]

xxx xxx




OP claimed he's a socially stunted hermit...
I suppose that explains his unrealistic expectations of the world.
Put down the computer and get your a** outside. Go skip naked through the fields or whatever s**t you hippies like to do.




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