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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:58 pm
As you know, humans have a wide spectrum of things they fear, depending on the person, the situation, etc. I have decided that fear comes from two primal fears:
~The Unknown ~Pain/discomfort (not neccesarily physical)
For example, a child is afraid of his mother scolding him. Obviously, it causes him discomfort to be scolded, and perhaps punished. The unknown is also linked to this particular situation, because the child does not know what his mother will do to him if he is punished.
The unknown, obviously, allows many, many fears to branch off from it, a few being death, moving, or SATs. Pain/discomfort is linked as well to these, because one fears that death mau bring pain, or moving may bring dissatisfaction.
Does anyone agree, dissagree, or have anything to add? You may ask me to prove any fear to branch of of those two primary fears, and I shall attempt and (most likely) suceed to do so. I challenge you to find a fear which does not link to the above primal fears.
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:56 pm
Fear always involves anticipating the future. If your mind is completely in the moment, completely in the present, then you can't be afraid wink
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:44 pm
I think the child scolding example isn't quite right in this subject. Sure, no body likes to get yelled at, but if the child has some notion, he or she will realize that it happened for a reason - that they did something bad.
But other than that, I agree with you. And the most common example of fear of the unknown is fear of death, because it's widely used in religion. Nobody will ever know what happens after we die, but as far as science is concerned, six feet of dirt and a pine box is all there's to it. Not a very comforting thought, right? And then someone comes to you saying that you can go to a place of eternal pleasure and happiness if you believe in their doctrine. Sounds a lot better, eh?
As for the challenge, I think I do have a fear - or a series of them - that doesn't fit in the 'pain' or the 'unknown' category. Namely, phobias - an irrational fear of some specific thing.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:27 pm
Sphinxfeather Fear always involves anticipating the future. If your mind is completely in the moment, completely in the present, then you can't be afraid wink In a way, yes. Fear of the 'unknown' would better be described in psychological terms as fear of things outside of your present construct system. Your personal constructs are the equivalent to your worldview; things you're familiar with and have a sort of paradigm built up for. If you encounter something outside of that, most of the time your construct is flexible enough to let in the new idea. Some people, though, have very concrete constructs in certain areas. Since we use constructs to predict events and create expectations, it creates anxiety or fear when our construct system doesn't include what we're being confronted with. Eventually the new stimulation may make it's way into a perosn's construct system. Sometimes it never does, and people just begin to ignore it, become intolerant, or hateful towards whatever this thing is.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:27 pm
Meh...I really have to agree. I'd take a devil's advocate on this one, but I have a question to pose instead:
What do you fear? Look deep, deep inside.
I did, and I found this. As far as actual fear, I don't have one. I don't fear being alone anymore, because I've accepted its truth. I don't fear the move I'll be making in a few weeks, because I don't know what's on the other end, and so don't have any reason for it to bother me. I don't fear the end of life, because that will release me from this existence.
I don't even fear pain. It's a fact of life.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:34 pm
MightyHikaru I think the child scolding example isn't quite right in this subject. Sure, no body likes to get yelled at, but if the child has some notion, he or she will realize that it happened for a reason - that they did something bad. But other than that, I agree with you. And the most common example of fear of the unknown is fear of death, because it's widely used in religion. Nobody will ever know what happens after we die, but as far as science is concerned, six feet of dirt and a pine box is all there's to it. Not a very comforting thought, right? And then someone comes to you saying that you can go to a place of eternal pleasure and happiness if you believe in their doctrine. Sounds a lot better, eh? As for the challenge, I think I do have a fear - or a series of them - that doesn't fit in the 'pain' or the 'unknown' category. Namely, phobias - an irrational fear of some specific thing. Many phobias have a connection to the two main causes. Fear of spiders- pain; discomfort Fear of closed spaces- pain; discomfort fear of open spaces- both You'd be surprized how many phobias are born of the two main causes.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:41 pm
Cougar Draven Meh...I really have to agree. I'd take a devil's advocate on this one, but I have a question to pose instead: What do you fear? Look deep, deep inside. I did, and I found this. As far as actual fear, I don't have one. I don't fear being alone anymore, because I've accepted its truth. I don't fear the move I'll be making in a few weeks, because I don't know what's on the other end, and so don't have any reason for it to bother me. I don't fear the end of life, because that will release me from this existence. I don't even fear pain. It's a fact of life. This is interesting. It is true; some people defy the law, but for every law there will be an exception. I personally do not fear the unknown, I do not know why, but I do not. I have never feared death, or moving, or anything of the sort. I do have fears, and I have never felt as if I had no fear. Fear, to a certain extent, has helped me. The fear of pain has made me make some rational decisions which have saved me from getting hurt. The fear of stupidity has kept me from slacking off (partially; mostly it was just the fact that I love learning).
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:06 pm
Many phobias have a connection to the two main causes. Fear of spiders- pain; discomfort Fear of closed spaces- pain; discomfort fear of open spaces- both You'd be surprized how many phobias are born of the two main causes. I think you got the wrong idea here. Claustrophobia doesn't take place because closed spaces causes pain/discomfort, quite the contrary - it causes pain/discomfort. And that how most of the phobias work. Sometimes they're are caused by traumas and etc., but mostly phobias are just irrational fears. i.e. Oneirophobia (Fear of dreams), Siderophobia (Fear of stars). Source http://phobialist.com
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:25 pm
Well, Fear itself can really be boiled down to a phsychological/physical arousal. And, of course, there is no difference between illusion and reality to the one perceiving it. Therefore, when one becomes aroused, one can then label that arousal as 'fear' and become afraid. In the same light, the arousal can be labelled otherwise...like maybe sexual arousal.
...But spiders most definetely don't get me off... >.>
Fear can be anything from what you learned to be afraid of, right on down to something deeply ingrained into the human genetics. Asking what Fear is is just like asking what Happiness, Sadness, or Anger is 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Mr. Jones ...But spiders most definetely don't get me off... >.> And I thank Jesus for that. But what you're saying is that fear is just a reaction. To some people, seeing a spider brings about a reaction of fear. In me, personally, it's "meh. It's a spider. I can kill it with no repercussions." I, on the whole, don't fear anything I can kill with my bare hands. That eliminates insects, spiders, and most small mammals. Hell, it eliminates most humans, 'cause I'm a big guy. Other people see spiders and go into convulsions. These are people with arachnophobia. I prefer to think of the two categories of fear not as physical and unknown, but rather rational and irrational. That, in and of itself, is the fine line between "Eep! A spider!" and "OMGOMFGOMFGWTFWTFBBQHAXOMFGASPIDERGETITAWAYGETITAWAYGETITAWAYPLZZZZZ!!!!" Now that was either classy or brainless. I haven't decided which yet.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:09 pm
I can't say what I fear and don't fear subconciously...
I do know that I fear, in a sense, the unknown, yet I also at the same time don't. Spiders, I am not so much afraid that it's a spider as I am of whether or not it can hurt you. I try to capture them to put them outside, but lately I had to kill them. I count two. No arachnophobia for me. 3nodding I used to be afraid of the dark until I figured out there isn't a reason to be afraid of the dark itself. I now like night more than day. Reason being is that it's just "too bright" outside... um, heh. sweatdrop
But... something that contradicts "normal" thought is that I'm not conciously afraid of dieing. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I would want to. I'm stating that when it comes out of my free will, then I'm thinking there isn't going to be much if anything to stop it. Plus... I honestly don't think that death is the end. It just... doesn't make sense. My explanation that I could say wouldn't make any more sense either. Plus, if there is a heaven (just to get this out of the way), I don't even want to see it now that I think of it. I was thinking if there was something after death... just visit to see how it is. But, I know I wouldn't want it. People see it as eternal pleasure or something. I don't like that. I would get insanely bored. Some say it's different ways of worshiping god for eternity. People say you would like it. I see it as the real person is destroyed, and has a mindless doppelganger in their place. Again, I wouldn't want it.
Fears I do have... maybe heights. But I love flying. I also only get scared when it's a situation that I'm likely to fall and get hurt. (Eep! Pain! Discomfort!) (Um... yeah... sweatdrop )
Now... as for the SAT... I found it boring, and somewhat confusing. The discomfort was in seeing just how it was, and I would have prefered the unknown if I didn't have to take it. 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:34 pm
I looked deep inside, and found that falling instantly is my greatest fear... which lead to the fear of death of course. But I can't see how anyone would not be afraid of falling. And I don't mean, jumping of your own free will... I mean falling like the horror of nightmare falls. For me, a nightmare fall occurs when everything around me INSTANTLY disappears and I immediate begin plummeting downwards. As if all of existance ended at once and I was the only thing left flying a million miles and hour towards an expected splat. And I don't necessarily fear the fall as much as I fear the END of the fall.
Our ONLY fear if fear itself.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:04 am
Lesidia I have decided that fear comes from two primal fears: ~The Unknown ~Pain/discomfort (not neccesarily physical) I think that this is unnecessary and possibly erroneous. Fear is primal, period. Fear is an unpleasant feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by perceived exposure or vulnerability to harm of any type. Fear of the unknown is fear of pain/discomfort because when something is unknown, there is possible pain/discomfort.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:17 am
Mr. Jones Well, Fear itself can really be boiled down to a phsychological/physical arousal. And, of course, there is no difference between illusion and reality to the one perceiving it. Therefore, when one becomes aroused, one can then label that arousal as 'fear' and become afraid. In the same light, the arousal can be labelled otherwise...like maybe sexual arousal. ...But spiders most definetely don't get me off... >.> Fear can be anything from what you learned to be afraid of, right on down to something deeply ingrained into the human genetics. Asking what Fear is is just like asking what Happiness, Sadness, or Anger is 3nodding Fear is easier to explain, siomply because it is a human instinct generally the same/similar among the members of the species. Happiness is different, because it can be caused by such a wide variety of things that one simply cannot label it. However, even though the ideals of happiness and beauty can be associated with different societies, fear, on a whole, has been quite similar. Furthermore, fear. it is true, is 'arousal' but so is every other reaction (happiness, anger, amusement). Otherwise, we would just be walking around as zombies because there would be no reactions (a.k.a. arousals) to anything. Fear cannot just be labeled 'arousal' and then thrown off to the side like that.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:03 am
Lesidia Fear is easier to explain, simply because it is a human instinct generally the same/similar among the members of the species. Happiness is different, because it can be caused by such a wide variety of things that one simply cannot label it. Happiness is caused when one fulfills a desire, conscious or subconscious. Disagree? Lesidia However, even though the ideals of happiness and beauty can be associated with different societies, fear, on a whole, has been quite similar. That's because desires are dependent on culture, and danger isn't.
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