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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:18 am
I just wanted to make this tread because i just got a lecture of a geology professor that thinks the human effect on global warming is quite blow up.
mrgreen mrgreen
I think he's right.
So whats you people's vision of the Human effect on global warming.
I'll try and comment them if i find a free minute smile
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:30 pm
The question of whether we're making a large or small difference is moot, to my mind. People ought to take responsibility for the way they treat the environment in either case. neutral
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:35 pm
I am not a big fan of blaming all of global warming on human activity. However I do think that we are responsible for our environment and need to clean it up. Everybody needs to do their part and recycle and reuse items. Did you know one recycling one aluminum can saves enough electricity to run a TV for 3 hours?? If everybody recycled their cans the electric saved would be awesome!
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:49 pm
novemberine The question of whether we're making a large or small difference is moot, to my mind. People ought to take responsibility for the way they treat the environment in either case. neutral
Totally agree!
3nodding
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:29 pm
I'm with novemberine.
I think we are having a large impact on the global climate, and It will take me forever to tell every single fact that I've learned. try looking at An 'Inconvenient Truth: A Global Warning', it's a good documentary on the subject.
But even if we're not doing anything major, it doesn't mean we shouldn'y try and save the earth.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Mostly a repost of my thoughts on the other warming thread but equally relavent here.
Ok first off I think global warming is real and that it is very likely man is causing break in the natural cycle.
1. The earth has been going through Hot/Cold cycles for a long time, and it is possible that this current trend is just part of that.
a. We are certainly on a warming trend right now, and it is possible that some things (such as a massive change in ocean currents due to the introduction of fresh water from melting ice caps and glaciers) could cause at least a temporary reversal in this.
b. If you look at the short term patterns for weather change and atmospheric content (last couple thousand years as opposed to last couple million) It looks like an industrial control chart for a process that is going out of control (trust me after last semester I know what those look like, also here is a chart http://www.technologyreview.com/articlefiles/climatechart.pdf) (another link to an article talking about this chart [slightly biased souce in my opinion though] http://www.tpmcafe.com/discussiontables/misc_politics_table/2006/jul/19/
global_warming_an_amazing_graph_and_muzzling_science_at_nasa)
(another really good chart only showing the last 2000 years, lets you see the fine detail at the tail end of the the first chart much better, a much scarier chart in my mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png)
b1. It looks to me like we are at the beginning of what could be a run away trend in warming. "If" this is true then we still don't really know what it will lead to, the ecosystem could set of counter measures that would send us into an ice age(something has led to the oscillations up until now) or we might turn earth into another Venus. The point is that there is enough evidence to suggest that this may be man's fault, and even if it isn't if climate change of a massive order is coming we will be just as dead even if it isn't our fault. So it stands to reason that we should stop doing things that we KNOW DO contribute to global warming even if you want to play the ignorance card and say they might not be our fault. Trying to lower Greenhouse Gas emmissions for the entire world is utterly vital in my opinion.
One last link (http://unfccc.int/2860.php some current news on the subject)
Parting thoughts "I am not buying any beach front property".
What evidence did you geology teacher bring up to convince you that global warming is not caused by man? Feel free to respond to anything I posted here I am always up for hearing a counter argument (especially for something where this is some grey area like this)
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:25 pm
The crux of my argument is that long term CO2 levels and global temperature are tied. That although these have risen and fallen in cycles for a long time the Current Trend with the rise in CO2 levels will take us out of the cycle, and into a much warmer place.
Basically there are a bunch of indicators with climate and temperature change and although we are still within the bounds as far as actual temperature and rate of increase in temperature, we are out of bounds (beyond the normal range of the warming and cooling trend) in terms of the indictors especially if CO2 emmissions continue at there current rate.
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:08 am
kitten22481 I am not a big fan of blaming all of global warming on human activity. However I do think that we are responsible for our environment and need to clean it up. Everybody needs to do their part and recycle and reuse items. Did you know one recycling one aluminum can saves enough electricity to run a TV for 3 hours?? If everybody recycled their cans the electric saved would be awesome! Yep, aluminium is isolated by elektrolysis and that requires LOTS of engergy smile We should indeed be more responsible to our environment but the global warming effect is too big to be induced only be human activities
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:30 am
Humans have alot to do with global warming, of course there are other factors that cause the warming of the earth and it is true that we have always gone through climate changes, but changes that don't usually occur within a few hundred years.
Human population is exponentionally growing - and will continue to grow looking at around 10.8 billion people by 2050. You can't tell me that Humans don't have in a big way contributed to the the huge hole in our ozone. There are 6.6 billion people in the world today and adding on each day. About 4.5 billion people live in third world or developing countries. Polution contribution is greatest from develped contries like America with only 330 million- Imagine just how much more we could damage our Mother Earth if China were at 100% developed, and sourcing it's all its resources? China has a population of 2.6 Billion people! You won't change my mind, we are the cause all that is terrible on this planet, and the sooner we realize, the sooner we can get on a banwagon to do something about it.
Although it might already be too late.
Is it going to take people walking around with oxygen tanks on their back to realize that we really need to stop being so wasteful?
The number of People inflicted with Astma has almost trippled in the last 50 years.
o.o
The air we breath is already so polluted compared to our history 250yrs ago...and it if we are going to just sit here and argue that it's all natural then we beter start evolving to breath carbon dioxide...cuz that's about the only thing that will help us.
XP
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:38 am
The fact we are or not responsible is even not to debate at this time.
Actions will save us (maybe, or we just need to be more responsible of our pollution), and inactions will make at our loose. Blablabla would not save us. Just worse our situation. Time lost is crucial, and wait 100 years for acting something is just let the time cut the tree where we are.
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:24 pm
Only 98% of the problems are caused by humans. The 2% are mainly volcanic eruptions (if there are any other natural causes, please comment me about them). The 98% caused by humans is for reasons that we've altered the environment many times before, in different ways. Polluting the water is one of them. The water on this planet is very important, because it keeps the planet from getting too cold or too hot. Affecting the water can disrupt this. Then there's the most common of them all, car exhausts emmitting CO2 (power plants too.) There might be other causes, but I can't remember. Look it up on wikipedia.org. If you want to voice your opinions on why you're concerned about it, go to:
beattheheat.nrdc.org
(For some reason, I write about these things in my journal, but no one seems to comment sweatdrop )
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:35 pm
Jubillie Humans have alot to do with global warming, of course there are other factors that cause the warming of the earth and it is true that we have always gone through climate changes, but changes that don't usually occur within a few hundred years.
Human population is exponentionally growing - and will continue to grow looking at around 10.8 billion people by 2050. You can't tell me that Humans don't have in a big way contributed to the the huge hole in our ozone. There are 6.6 billion people in the world today and adding on each day. About 4.5 billion people live in third world or developing countries. Polution contribution is greatest from develped contries like America with only 330 million- Imagine just how much more we could damage our Mother Earth if China were at 100% developed, and sourcing it's all its resources? China has a population of 2.6 Billion people! You won't change my mind, we are the cause all that is terrible on this planet, and the sooner we realize, the sooner we can get on a banwagon to do something about it.
Although it might already be too late.
Is it going to take people walking around with oxygen tanks on their back to realize that we really need to stop being so wasteful?
The number of People inflicted with Astma has almost trippled in the last 50 years.
o.o
The air we breath is already so polluted compared to our history 250yrs ago...and it if we are going to just sit here and argue that it's all natural then we beter start evolving to breath carbon dioxide...cuz that's about the only thing that will help us.
XP Not only is it causing more cases of asthma, but it's causing cancer as well. In Pascagoula(MS), the cancer rate went up in a medical study a few months ago due to the gas emissions in the air, because there are so many gas stations and cars around. And, in places in Europe, keeping a window open can get you sick, because there's so much smog in the air. It's not just going to get harder to breath, it's going to get alot hotter. This is a demonstration of what the temperature of the entire earth is in different areas:  This is what scientist predict what the temperature will be in the future, due to global warming:  Also, it isn't too late. And we shouldn't try. We should do. We will stop global warming, or at least curb it enought to were we have time to figure out how to stop it completely. As Gandhi said: Be the change you wish to see in the world.
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:54 am
I think people generally need to be more sceptic about the results of science studies.
Its good to care about nature but its also good to be realistic and sceptic. mrgreen
Most results are quite blown up and are the very very unlike worst case scenario's.
And don't forget that earth has gone through far worse things than human pollution. The earth is a giant self-regulating system that cant be disturbed only by pollution etc.
So if the temperatures are indeed rising it would mean that there's a larger cause and lets say pollution is only a minor contributor to it.
Another point is our data. We rely on relatively accurate data that go back a few hundred years. In Geological time that means nothing... So its quite impossible to predict the actual effect of pollution etc.
N.B. Pollution is a rather human health related problem (like people mentioned before) than a head cause for global warming.
arrow Think about it, post and argue...
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:40 am
Ndude I think people generally need to be more sceptic about the results of science studies. Its good to care about nature but its also good to be realistic and sceptic. mrgreen Scepticism is good, it is not neccisarily the same as realism though.Most results are quite blown up and are the very very unlike worst case scenario's. It is true that different groups especially the media in general and activist have a track record of exaggerating things. It is also true that argument presents nothing other than guilt by association to dismiss some projections for climate change, including some catastrophic onesAnd don't forget that earth has gone through far worse things than human pollution. The earth is a giant self-regulating system that cant be disturbed only by pollution etc. This is true the earth has been through some really horrible things, and has many self regulatory systems that we do not fully understand. It is also true that we are in the middle of significant climate change, and most such climate changes in earth's history have been accompanied by mass extinctions. Earth may be fine, life may go on, but that doesn't mean we will (although I think some humans would make it though just about anything since we are pretty damn adaptable, still wouldn't really like to see 90% of mankind die out, plus massive changes could be a catalyst for nuclear war which scares me a lot more than global warming and could actually wipe us all out). It is also important to note that climate on earth oscillates and we are on an upswing right now, all we have to do is push a little at one peak and (even if pollution isn't the primary cause) to make the world a pretty unpleasant place for humans. Also note that there are a lot of things going on besides pollution.
A--- You have CO2 and other greenhouse gases (which I have already discussed in detail)
B--- You have mass extinctions and deforestation (which affects at least some of earth's regulatory abilities)
C--- You have other stuff which we barely understand going on (if you want to be paranoid consider our effect on the evolution of bateria)
We know that certain things like increased CO2 emission can raise global temperature (although the scope and effect are argued). We know plants help regulate this (but we continue mass deforestation). We know algea and plankton (and some bacteria) colonies in the ocean play an even larger role in regulating these things than forests do (although their whole habitat could be thrown into utter chaos with glacial melting affecting sea current and the salinity of water). First link shows some of the importance of plankton (about half of CO2 consuption and oxygen production is due to it). The second shows the ocean currents which play are large role in supporting the enviroment that planton lives in. It is theorized that glacial melting could disrupt this causing catastrophy (although this is still somewhat speculative)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/07/040728085622.htm
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/32.htm
So there are several factors beyond just pollution contributing to the threat of Global Warming.So if the temperatures are indeed rising it would mean that there's a larger cause and lets say pollution is only a minor contributor to it. Another point is our data. We rely on relatively accurate data that go back a few hundred years. In Geological time that means nothing... So its quite impossible to predict the actual effect of pollution etc. Calling you here. Yes we only have accurate first hand recordings going back a couple hundred years but we have methods to measure atmosphere make-up, and temperature going back much further than that. For details on how we do it, do some seaching on the following links.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/paleo.html
http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/land/global/climchng.html#know
N.B. Pollution is a rather human health related problem (like people mentioned before) than a head cause for global warming. arrow Think about it, post and argue...
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