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Hello there. I'm a Christian from the Bible belt, and I'm a former creationist. Gradually over this year I have made the change from believing old earth creationism (though I know many who are young earth creationists at my church) to believing evolution to be the best mechanism for explaining the origins of life. I am still a Christian, first and foremost, but I no longer hold old earth creationism or creation science for that matter to be true. Actually, I'm a stronger Christian now than I was before.

In the strictest sense of the word, I'm still a creationist - in that I believe God created the world. I believe God was actively involved in the process of evolution and still is. God started it and God sustains it. While this is up for debate, this is not what I want to discuss with you all. Perhaps we can discuss it another time (realize that you can never win that argument and I can never win it either).

In high school biology I shut out evolution automatically because I'd been taught it was a lie. I felt like people wanted to use this theory to destroy my faith in God and people do use it for that purpose. Out of fear, I avoided evolution like the plague. I was pretty sure that nothing could disprove God, but I did not want to be proven wrong. I hope you see what that entails - a lack of faith but a great deal of cowardice.

Do you know why I finally changed my mind/"saw the light" or whatever? It is because of the education received at the college I attend. I'm an anthropology major at Wheaton College. As anthro majors we must take a class called Human Origins. It has been very formative in how I think. For the first time, I saw Christians who believed in evolution and wanted me to grow in my faith, not see it diminish. I saw Christians who were wrestling with the issues evolution does present and who struggled with it, but still had a deep faith in God.

We sat down and discussed the theological issues of evolution at the very beginning of our class, before we learned about human origins. For example, to Christians it's very important that Adam and Eve were historical people because Christ was a historical person. Why does that matter? Because of Romans 5:12-19. Go look it up on www.biblegateway.com if you actually want to read it.

Christ is compared to Adam, so for a Christian it is very important that Adam be historical in some sense. And, according to the DNA evidence, that's very possible. Adam is a lot farther back than creationists would have it. I would put him at around when the first modern Homo sapiens appeared about 100,000 years ago. It is also the start of a significant cultural explosion in the fossil record, if you notice. Of course, it's not as big as the start of the Upper Paleolithic - which as you probably know showed not only deliberate burials of the dead but artistic expressions such as cave paintings, fertility figurines, jewelry, and the like. However, the cognitive capacities of modern man far surpassed those of Homo neandertalensis. It is believed (at least by some) that the tools Homo neandertalensis used were imitations of the tools used by Homo sapiens. There are other things we wrestle with - such as death and how literally the Genesis account ought to be taken, but I'm okay with not knowing the answers to some of my questions. Even if I did not believe in God I would still have questions, so I don't see what the big deal with ambiguity is.

Forgive me for explaining that so much, but I want to be treated with seriousness. You may disagree with some of the things I've posted and that's fine, but believe I know what I'm talking about (though I'm well aware I have much to learn). Treat me with the respect I am trying to treat you with.

That being said, I'm going to ask you a question on behalf of all creationists - do you think your strategy will work? Do you think it is merely an intellectual battle? If you do, I must interject and say that you're wrong. Look at my story and tell me how much of that was simply a "Oh, there's the evidence! I'm convinced now!" thing. I had to first realize that for me the Bible explains one half of the world and science explains the other. Science can only point material causes. It is limited, and to make conclusions about any diety based on science is going beyond what science can do. It takes just as much faith to see evolution and say "there is no God" as to say "God sustains it" because you just don't know. The Bible tells me what is so significant about the material world, but it has no answers for material causes of things. There is plenty about the material world that isn't in the Bible - if it isn't in the Ancient Near East or the Greco-Roman world, it's not in the Bible. Obviously the world is bigger than that. In my church, the Bible was seen as having every answer to everything. But it doesn't, and it was acknowledging that that made me willing to believe that evolution and the Bible might actually get along.

Many people in the church haven't acknowledged that. This is a change that must occur within the church. How do you expect it to occur when so many people point at evolution and say it disproves God? Evolution had a bad start in that area, too. Perhaps if its major proponents hadn't used it as ammo against God so vocally it might not have the stigma it does today. When you are in love with someone, if another person insults your beloved often enough, you will ignore everything that person says. This is what has happened with many creationists. Tone down your insults to our beloved and maybe we'll listen.

In the mind of the creationist, it is an "us" versus "them" battle. Make it less hostile and you might be heard.

But even so, it's useless. And it's because you aren't a Christian.

Ignorance isn't the right word. Fearful is. And honestly, the whole linguistic set you're using screams insults at creationists. If I were a borderline creationist and I came to this guild, I wouldn't change my opinions. Sure, creationist rationale is faulty, but it needs to be treated like it's valid, even if we're both aware that it's not.

Honestly, it gets under my skin, to see the same people making the same claims, all of which have been refuted long long ago. Once.. understandable, but after I have personally shown them why they are wrong, and they simply stop replying on the thread, and start another a week later saying the same thing... It gets old quickly.

When there is a simple, easy to use, resource like Talk Origins to check their claims against, and they never even bother. Claims like.. "There are no transitional species"

Well, more often "Where are the missing links?" But whatever. It is infuriating. In threads like that.. the best I would hope to do is to stop them from convincing anyone else, be tearing their arguments apart as best I can, and by linking to appropriate webpages when I need to present evidence.

Less hostility is generally a good idea. However enough of them fear their beliefs being threatened that a lack of hostility will not aid anything beyond merely making the debate slightly more pleasant.

I generally avoid the hostility simply because I feel all people deserve courtesy. It if isn't given to me then I don't return it obviously. But as long as a creationist is civil with me, I am civil with him/her.



Indeed. And that in itself is unfortunate. That so many Christians refuse to hear any kind of reasoning based on the source. Its actually quite ironic since many Christians will complain and whine that atheists and secular authorities will ignore them out of hand for being Christian.

Such complaints are hypocritical in the light of the actions of many of your brethren and unfortunately discredit the better of the Christian subset of the population like yourself.

That's not to say that many atheists, philosophical Materialists, and secular prioritizing individuals do not show the same behavior, merely that the bad apples in your group tend to like to be rather loud about it.

Makes treatment rather uneven.

Yes, I'm afraid that's true (yay for non-hostility, by the way). But it's true that lots of people in certain circles will ignore a Christian simply because of their faith. But the hypocrisy we demonstrate as Christians is frustrating.



That's true. Of course, think about it this way. Maybe it doesn't compare, but just think about it. As a Christian, I believe people need to hear about my God and know Him, not just because there'd be eternal consequences but because He's what makes me complete right now. If a Christian were to proselytize you by saying you're going to hell and had better shape up or enjoy eternity in an incenerator, would you listen? Would you be more willing to hear them out if it was obvious they cared about you and told you that after establishing trust and care? Of course, you may not listen either way, but would you even remotely hear the message if it was said in an insulting, hostile, and patronizing manner/language?


Not their views, their rationale. There's a huge difference. Again, with my beliefs, I can understand why people choose not to believe them as well. Their reasoning behind that has validity to an extent and I can treat it with respect, but I still think their viewpoint is wrong.

Perhaps respect would have been a better word. Also I'll make changes to reflect that.

It is a dilemma. But I guess that's the whole point of this discussion - acknowledging that it's not as simple as we thought.

Also, I use my faith as an example here because of the value I place on the truths of it. I can't relate to your struggles of sharing the truth outside of my faith considering I a) haven't been a proponent of evolution for that long and b) find that there are more important things to quibble over.