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Let's turn our discussions to public schools and the sad state they are in today. Do you think that the public school system is mandatory brain washing or just mediocre education? So many kids these days get through school without using more than 2 of their brain cells and going on to live the slack-jawwed yokel lifestyle - hence the ever increasing popularity of the Jerry Springer show. I remember most of my teachers were quite incompetant at their jobs and froze in fear at any creative questions from the class - some even going as far as to discourage any free thought. As the song goes...

"A thought's a hazard in the classroom. Teacher's leave those kids alone..."

I myself spent all 13 years of grade school ((K-12)) and I know exactly what you mean. but it wasn't always the teacher...the administration of the state...((in california especially)) has dropped the standards so it is almost impossible to fail unless you just don't do anything. Needless to say I have had some of the best teachers who have pushed and challenge the very fiber of my being...I myself have used the whole 10% of my brain as does everyone else with the exception of the gifted few. There is such a need for public teachers when your put in a class it's hard to know what teachers are there because they love their job and they love to inspire their students to do greater things and those who just want to get a pay check at the end of the month...who cares about the kids...I've got tenure.

But I assure you it's not brainwashing...least if it was I came out untouched...I still know how to use my mind.

and what song are you guys referring to? it looks familiar but I can't remember...

Hmmm....I put brainwashing, simply because my teachers only taught one way of doing things in their classrooms. Especially my old English teacher...everything was so one way, you have to do this, say this, answer it this way, even if you don't agree with what the question is saying...etc... I never really felt that I could say what I wanted to--so I went to an online class, and got to say basically whatever I wanted. As long as I supported myself, my views, I was able to say them.

But in the rest of the school...my new art teacher was bad too (I say was because I graduated this May). She wanted things to be 'pretty' or 'cute' or something along those lines. It was more 'arts and crafts' like we did in elementary school when we weren't doing the traditional drawing and painting (since my school was small, we only had one kind of art class--and we did whatever projects she could come up with). I also have to say she didn't push people to do their best as much as my old teacher did--nor did she give attention equally. My old teacher would keep track of where he went through the day, and in that way check everyone's work at least twice a week. The new teacher just wanders around, and I went for about 3 weeks once without her ever coming over to look at my stuff (then again, I liked that because I am an art student).

I think that teachers should be more like my old art teacher...check everyone, don't leave people behind. Push people to do their best--even when they doubt themselves. I see more and more in the other teachers an indifference--they don't really care if the kids like it, or learn it, as long as they turn in completed assignments and pass the tests.

One article I read interviewed a teacher, and he said, "I used to be a good teacher." What he meant was that he used to get the kids excited about what they were learning, do creative projects and stuff like that. But now, because of the standerdized testing stuff....well, he just has them memorize the facts they need for the tests. And that saddened him. It saddens me as well.

Reminds me of my Shakespeare teacher...tried to convince me that Macbeth was a tragic hero...first time I ever yelled at a teacher.

I must argue that the public school system is only that, a public school system.
My expierience in this matter (being on both sides of the fence) has shown that
although it is only mediocre at best the average public school is not trying
to brainwash anyone.

1.) For those in here with a philosophers mind, being limited to one way is stifling
I admit but it helps with those "slack jawed yokel's."

2.) Lumping the whole system together on the bandwaggon is not really fair to those states that actually try to get people to achieve and think for themselves.

3.) As to "A thoughts a hazard in the classroom. Teacher's leave those kids alone."
free thought is always a dangerous thing due to opposition and such. Therefore
many teachers have the worst habit of trying to contain the damage by simply ignoring you. Not so much fear of the idea (being older they usually understand) but fear of what ideas bring with them.

I do agree that we cannot lump together ALL schools or ALL classrooms. As with anything, it's on an individual basis and may very well depend on either the teacher's style or the school's policies. And we might as well include private schools in this, too... because a Catholic School definitely puts more effort into brainwashing it's students then say, your average public school. And some schools have the money to provide a wide variety of classes while other schools can barely afford the limited staffing that they have.

The biggest thing, is that our country or our society needs to increase the usefulness of high school and direct it to teaching students life skills. For college hopefuls it should prep them for their college years, and for everyone else it should help zero in on their interests and help build skills that would allow students to get a good job straight out of high school rather then them having to start at the bottom of the ladder as a grunt, clerk or janitor.

In school I did my best to find classes that would actually benefit me in the workplace, so I took a lot of word processing/spreadsheet and related classes which has honestly helped me tremendously. But I had to actively select those classes and the teachers still were not all that skilled in the office programs' uses.

Public Schools are better than nothing, but they are severely lacking. The teachers employed at many are uninterested in the students' progress or in the subject matter. It is rare to find a public school teacher willing to have a thorough discussion begun by a student.

Allow me to pull a memory from my own experience. In fifth grade, there was a group reading assignment in which groups of four students would read the same book together. On the day the books were chosen, the teacher forewarned us that each group would have to meet in order to decide how many pages we would read. She informed us that the previous class had chosen to read about ten pages.

We never had time to meet in our groups. I took the book home and read forty or so pages, not wanting to be behind. The next day, the teacher asked us each how many pages we read. The students before me had all forgotten completely about the book. When I was asked, I timidly said I had read thirty five or forty pages. The teacher began shouting at me in front of the entire class for reading more than my groupmates who had all read nothing. Indtead of being dissapointed in the class for not diong their homework, she was angry at me for doing extra. Is this acceptable behavior for a teacher?

I strongly dissaprove of public school education because it fails to make the children interested in learning. The approach to school is, "You have to go so tough luck," rather than, "You have a wonderful opportunity to feed your curiosity, and I'm willing to help you." The schools are there, but they do very little to make the students successful in life. I think public schools are just an excuse for the parents not to hire a babysitter.

Thios is coming from one who spent six years at a public school, and now has been liberated from the torture of it and goes to a private school.

Yep. My 9th grade English teacher caught the same from me...meh.

My opinion is very long, and probably far-flung from the core, but that's just me. If you can ignore whatever sarcasm I'll undoubtedly slip in here and still get something out of it, go with it.

The public school system has caused me to screw myself out of every opportunity I've had, and only because I don't follow the crowd. Since I was six, I've had the attitude in school that says "I know I know this, why should you care?" I never used to do my homework for that reason, and so I never got good grades early in my school career. When I was a freshman in high school, I discovered pot. Yeah, those were fun days, but I didn't learn much about life.

I'll admit, I could have been a better student younger in life, but I'm trying to make up for the potential I squandered as a child now. It's really hard, from my situation, but I'm almost ready. And now, back to my rant about education (yay ranting! ::dance: smile

I'm about ready to start my fourteenth straight year in the public school system. Fifteen, if'ee count preschool. In 1991, I started preschool. 1992, Kindergarten at my first elementary school, which I attended until 1995, when I switched to the Gifted program in my school district for the rest of grade school. 1998 was when I entered junior high, and I left the Gifted program in 1999 and went back to my home school, before the end of that school year. In 2001 I started high school. In 2003, I was kicked out of high school for excessive absences (I wasn't the best student before I saw the light...did I mention that earlier?). That same year, I moved to Illinois, where I currently live, although no longer with my parents. I've passed 11 of twelve grades, and I'm preparing to move back to Michigan to go to my first high school for the last year.

I've passed every standardized test that's been thrown at me, usually with flying colors. I was one of ten students at my school that got a 30 or higher on the ACT. This is while I was drinking, mind you. Sober I could have gotten a 36.

I've grown ill of the public school system, and that illness grows more and more with teachers who might be able to use a break, should I decide I want to teach. Teaching isn't something you're able to do just because you get a piece of paper. You need the will. And, sad to say, most teachers don't. I've known perhaps three or four good teachers. This is in thirteen years of public schooling. whee

It's mostly brainwashing, something my pot-smoking years managed to save me from (only God knows how). I went through an anger-management course at school designed to make me a nicer kid. I came out even more aggressive. I'm one of those unique people that, when confronted with change, goes the other way. I could draw lightly on paper, you could tell me to erase it, I'll make darker marks. I will pull the line as far as I can in my direction.

I'm psychoanalyzing myself while talking about school. Oh well, school has ted and defined my life since I was 5, so I guess that's ok.

I know people that just study review sheets, and get C's on tests. I don't even look at them, and I get A's. It's not what's being taught, it's how it's being tested, and I can see through that. I finally started failing Chemistry tests toward the end of the year this past year, but that was because I was drinking.

School is like pop music: loosely based on a cookie-cutter image of what is "best" for the target market. In this case, the target market is students' learning. Instead of actual learning, we have people memorizing things for tests, then forgetting them. Go ask someone off the street if they can name each part of the equation E=mc2, what it refers to, what the name of the theory concerning said equation is, and the name of the man who came up with it. People will get Einstein for sure, and they might know "Theory of General Relativity", but they more than likely won't know "Energy equals mass multiplied by the velocity of light, squared". And if they do, if you've managed to get a science teacher, ask someone else. Two out of three probably won't get the full thing. If they do, ask them to give their opinion on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, and its effects on determinism.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Education can't be measured by what our schools turn out, because 90% of them are naught more than gibbering idiots.

Ok, I think I'm done. I'll post again if I have more squishy fun-ness to rant about.